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  #1  
Old 30.01.2012, 16:39
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Which offer would you take?

assume benefits are pretty much the same.
#1. swiss employer. has been firing people left and right. however, an opportunity presented to you to basically grow with a small team into a new market. salary not that great according to your expectations, but there is good opportunity for growth in the new market and if things pan out, you could move up quickly..and hopefully get a nice raise. work permit guaranteed according to human resources.
#2 north american employer. stable, and you previously worked for them, stayed in contact with members of the team, new opportunity opened up and you ended up with an offer. #2 offered you a 33% higher salary than #1.however,question is if #2 can get you a B permit. you will not settle for L permit.previously #2 has had trouble obtaining permits for non-EU employees.

what do you do?
accept #1 despite a 33% lower salary offer(cannot go back to #1 and ask for more, as they are under cost control and range currently wont allow them to go over) than #2, but work permit no problem or risk going with #2?

thanks for your input
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  #2  
Old 30.01.2012, 16:42
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Re: Which offer would you take?

Kiss the ground and do a jig for two offers, then make the best of whatever you choose!
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Old 30.01.2012, 16:47
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Re: Which offer would you take?

Either way to get a work permit you need to be a 'specialist' - whether your employer can justify that or not (and prove they can't find someone in the EU to do the job) - depends on the details...

I would not assume a 'swiss' company vs. a 'north american' company would have an advantage when it comes to the permit - the system is pretty straightforward...

If you are non-EU you can expect an L permit for the first two years, then the B permit. If you go straight to the B you can consider yourself lucky, but it won't be because one employer is 'swiss' or 'big' or anything else - the only people I know who have B permits straight-up were top level management...or 'preferred' countries, and I don't imagine Croatia is a 'preferred' country (don't take that personally or anything)...
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Old 30.01.2012, 16:57
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Re: Which offer would you take?

If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.

#1 are blowing smoke probably to get you to accept an offer that is lower and riskier than others would take. NO company can guarantee you a permit, never mind a B permit. Plus if they are laying off people left and right there is no guarantee your project won't get pulled as well.

But you're the only one who can make the decision.

Good luck which ever you choose.
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Old 30.01.2012, 16:58
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Re: Which offer would you take?

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Either way to get a work permit you need to be a 'specialist' - whether your employer can justify that or not (and prove they can't find someone in the EU to do the job) - depends on the details...

I would not assume a 'swiss' company vs. a 'north american' company would have an advantage when it comes to the permit - the system is pretty straightforward...

If you are non-EU you can expect an L permit for the first two years, then the B permit. If you go straight to the B you can consider yourself lucky, but it won't be because one employer is 'swiss' or 'big' or anything else - the only people I know who have B permits straight-up were top level management...or 'preferred' countries, and I don't imagine Croatia is a 'preferred' country (don't take that personally or anything)...
It should have more to do with the duration of the contract (unlimited versus fixed). When I (American) got a 3 month contract gig, they gave me an L, but when I got an indefinite time period contract at another employer (both small Swissies) they gave me a B. And I'm not top management... yet.

That said, if one permit type doesn't work out, I've known people to edge around the system by changing the contract language and dropping from a B to an L. Seems like the authorities are more willing to grant those for some reason...
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Old 30.01.2012, 17:33
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Re: Which offer would you take?

Better the devil you know than....

I would take company number 2. I have never been really happy working for Swiss companies, and always happy with US companies.
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Old 30.01.2012, 20:12
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Re: Which offer would you take?

Alternative way to look at it: the minimax-approach. I.e. "go for the option which minimizes your maximum regret"

Translation:
- If you choose option 1 and it doesn't work out, how crappy would that be? E.g. opportunity wasn't that great after all, you don't move up nor increase $$$ and eventually get fired.
- If you choose option 2 and it doesn't work out, how crappy would that be? E.g. you sit and are bored in your 30%+ increase salary stable job with people you know/like and see that actually option 1 was better after all because it turned out to be a great opportunity for somebody else, they got 20% increase (still lower than you're making in the easier job), etc.

Sounds to me like your potential downside is much higher with option 1. Depends on your appetite for risk I guess.
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Old 30.01.2012, 20:23
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Re: Which offer would you take?

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If you are non-EU you can expect an L permit for the first two years, then the B permit. If you go straight to the B you can consider yourself lucky, but it won't be because one employer is 'swiss' or 'big' or anything else - the only people I know who have B permits straight-up were top level management...or 'preferred' countries, and I don't imagine Croatia is a 'preferred' country (don't take that personally or anything)...

A colleague of mine from North Africa, got the B Permit straight away, no management position, non swiss company, works simply as a technical engineer in telecom field, studied only in north africa - doesn't know except arabic and english, lives in Bern.

In the same work place there are at least 3 croatians I know whom also started with B permit straight away.

P.s I am not croatian - I am just stating facts that I have seen.
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Old 30.01.2012, 20:32
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Re: Which offer would you take?

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assume benefits are pretty much the same.
#1. swiss employer. has been firing people left and right. however, an opportunity presented to you to basically grow with a small team into a new market. salary not that great according to your expectations, but there is good opportunity for growth in the new market and if things pan out, you could move up quickly..and hopefully get a nice raise. work permit guaranteed according to human resources.
#2 north american employer. stable, and you previously worked for them, stayed in contact with members of the team, new opportunity opened up and you ended up with an offer. #2 offered you a 33% higher salary than #1.however,question is if #2 can get you a B permit. you will not settle for L permit.previously #2 has had trouble obtaining permits for non-EU employees.

what do you do?
accept #1 despite a 33% lower salary offer(cannot go back to #1 and ask for more, as they are under cost control and range currently wont allow them to go over) than #2, but work permit no problem or risk going with #2?

thanks for your input

Now back to your question:


I will think as if I am in your place,

First I will put all the benifits in terms of points - regardless on if it comes with Offer 1 or 2

1) Salary: If I were you - I believe that whatever is written to the human being will come to him, it is written in disteny - yes it is good to look for better chances and do some effort, but it will end up with what is written to you at the end.

2) Stability: Would you like to continue living in Switzerland for longer while and after 12 years apply for a Swiss Passport, then I will think about how can i start, which means will think about the place that will give me Permit B which is on the way to this.

3) Career: Are you from the type that likes to do one task and continue doing it forever, if so - then go to this structured one, if your type is challenging and needs to move from a step to another - then you have the other.

4) Would you like to continue your career one day in North America

5) Do you plan to go back to your home country ? if yes when - long term or short term ?


Answering these questions hopefully will help you to make up your mind.

If you dont need Permit B and have some plans that needs financial commitment then go to the one that brings you money.

If you need to continue for a while in Switzerland, go for the other one, and they slowly will increase your salary from year to year (very very slowly).

All the best of luck.
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Old 30.01.2012, 21:16
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Re: Which offer would you take?

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#1 are blowing smoke probably to get you to accept an offer that is lower and riskier than others would take. NO company can guarantee you a permit, never mind a B permit. .
what she said. How can company 1 guarantee you the permit?
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  #11  
Old 30.01.2012, 22:18
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Re: Which offer would you take?

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what she said. How can company 1 guarantee you the permit?
you are correct. nothing is 100%, but having a 100+ year swiss tradition and foreign employees in switzerland, i would think it's almost a sure thing they know what they are doing.
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Old 30.01.2012, 22:38
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Re: Which offer would you take?

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you are correct. nothing is 100%, but having a 100+ year swiss tradition and foreign employees in switzerland, i would think it's almost a sure thing they know what they are doing.
You may call me cynical, but when accepting a new job you should assume something will not be delivered unless it is explicitly agreed/signed upfront. And nowadays, that may even be worth as much as toilet paper.
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Old 30.01.2012, 23:05
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Re: Which offer would you take?

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You may call me cynical, but when accepting a new job you should assume something will not be delivered unless it is explicitly agreed/signed upfront. And nowadays, that may even be worth as much as toilet paper.
Agree .. always trust the bird in the hand not the bush. Option 1 is a new market, is that another way of saying a market that has not been cracked?

If this hire and fire company (as you say) do not see results quick enough you will be front of the queue for the door permit B or no permit B plus the wage is 33% lower. Option 2 sounds like you will be happier overall, even though you might feel slightly bored at times .... in current job market and threat of it getting worse, boredom is not a bad sensation

Only you can decide, i expect you already know what your going to do, deep down just listen to the voice and go with it.

I like the idea of maximum regret theory though.
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Old 30.01.2012, 23:32
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What would you do if you went with the first company and got an L permit anyway?
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Old 31.01.2012, 00:33
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Re: Which offer would you take?

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what do you do?
Stay with #1 only if company has a clear competitive advantage in the field in which it is trying to expand using you.

If #1 is a me too player, go for #2
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Old 31.01.2012, 08:06
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Re: Which offer would you take?

My experience so far is that if companies had a personality, most would be schizophrenic... I experienced several times that vague promises of future raises are simply an unfair management motivation tool and never happened... a manager knows that he will have his job on average some 18 months - so it is great to promise you something in three years as it will be somebody else who then has to deal with the unmotivated employees...

- permits: no company can guarantee you anything and you will most likely get an L. Get over it...

- "Nationality" of the employer: I could not care less. It depends on the exact team you work with and if you like them... not your CEO.

Bottom line: Go for the cash today rather than the vague promise by a company that is in financial troubles. Cause one thing is for sure: if the troubles get worse, which is in the current economy not unlikely, are you as the newcomer in a difficult situation. If you get fired before you are in Switzerland for 12 months, no matter what permit you get, do you not get social insurances...
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Old 31.01.2012, 08:51
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Re: Which offer would you take?

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What would you do if you went with the first company and got an L permit anyway?
not accept #1. since i currently have a job that pays equally well as #1. the only reason i like #1 is because it has a recognized name and i personally saw big potential in the new market, even before #1 told me they feel the same way about new market potential.

best option would be to accept #1 and #2 and if #2 can get a work permit, then #2 is the obvious choice. however, i'm sure the authorities would take notice if both applied for a work permit on behalf of my name during the same period, and then there may be trouble with papers.
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Old 31.01.2012, 08:54
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Re: Which offer would you take?

In all honesty I would chose the Swiss employer unless of course you have worked for the American company before and feel totally confident and like the way they work.
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Old 31.01.2012, 08:56
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Re: Which offer would you take?

Hey, I remember seeing you at my office for an interview. Thanks for the insight.
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Old 31.01.2012, 09:01
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Re: Which offer would you take?

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Hey, I remember seeing you at my office for an interview. Thanks for the insight.
then you must have been one of the 6 men in total i met, over several lunch and informal meetings in restaurants/cafes.
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