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  #21  
Old 04.04.2012, 17:30
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Re: Female, early 30s, recenltly married - threat of babies in the eyes of HR people?

Well, the thing is though - let's turn it around a bit - do you anyway want to work for someone who is going to discriminate against women who *may* one day get pregnant?

If they don't want to give you the job purely because you are a newly married 30-something then I wouldn't want to work there anyway. I mean, are you planning to one day have a family? Maybe? Not thought about it yet? Because if you are going to do it then it will most likely be in the next 5 years or so, and if that's the case then you want an employer who is going to be happy for you - sympathetic and nice about maternity leave - not one who is going to feel duped and p*ed off.

If I were you I'd just think "hey I didn't get the job" and move on, look for something else. I am sure there are employers out there willing to see the benefits of your CV and experience and not look on the "may have children soon" part as negative.
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  #22  
Old 04.04.2012, 17:34
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Re: Female, early 30s, recenltly married - threat of babies in the eyes of HR people?

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I cannot find the <thank you> button. Thank you!
Minimum post / time on the forum limit for that to happen.

I have been reading the responses with interest, because I have done a little reading on this subject in the past. One of the things that some of the more progressive companies in the world have started to do is to try and retain female staff who go on maternity leave by providing support to come back, help with day care (some larger ones will even have an on site creche) and allow reduced hours while the children are still young, all with an aim for generating employee loyalty and retaining knowledge. I am not sure if any companies are like that here in CH. The idea was slowly gaining ground in NZ and is not unheard of in the US. Does not answer your original question in any way, I just wanted to add that.
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Old 04.04.2012, 17:36
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Re: Female, early 30s, recenltly married - threat of babies in the eyes of HR people?

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I cannot find the <thank you> button. Thank you!
You should be able to now - you can thank/groan once you have 10 posts.
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Old 04.04.2012, 18:08
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Re: Female, early 30s, recenltly married - threat of babies in the eyes of HR people?

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Minimum post / time on the forum limit for that to happen.

I have been reading the responses with interest, because I have done a little reading on this subject in the past. One of the things that some of the more progressive companies in the world have started to do is to try and retain female staff who go on maternity leave by providing support to come back, help with day care (some larger ones will even have an on site creche) and allow reduced hours while the children are still young, all with an aim for generating employee loyalty and retaining knowledge. I am not sure if any companies are like that here in CH. The idea was slowly gaining ground in NZ and is not unheard of in the US. Does not answer your original question in any way, I just wanted to add that.
And research shows that companies who do this create a deep and lasting committment in the female worker which far outweighs any loss of productivity they may have suffered when accommodating her preganancy and maternity leave.

And from personal experience I know this to be true. I was not treated well by a firm in the UK (where there is all the legislation to supposedley prevent these things from happening). Result? After a couple of years, I resigned and we moved here. Would we have moved if I had felt valued/respected/made to not feel like a traitor for having got to the higher echelons of the firm only to have gone off to have a baby? Absolutely, categorically no. Their loss - I am told most of my clients wandered off very shortly after I did.
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  #25  
Old 06.04.2012, 13:30
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Re: Female, early 30s, recenltly married - threat of babies in the eyes of HR people?

The problem may come to HR mind, but if it were a blocker, they will not waste their time in seeing you. They know you are in early 30ies (your graduation dates tells them), and they know you are married, per your work permit. If they call you, there is no reason this should be a problem.

Also consider that if companies didnt hire ladies possibly getting pregnant, they definitely would not have much to show in terms of pink quota (note that it isn't imposed in CH).

Go for it, and answer sweetly if asked that no, currently you are not planning on that for a few years, you both first want to settle in your new life and country.

Good luck!
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  #26  
Old 06.04.2012, 13:57
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Re: Female, early 30s, recenltly married - threat of babies in the eyes of HR people?

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If I were you I'd just think "hey I didn't get the job" and move on, look for something else. I am sure there are employers out there willing to see the benefits of your CV and experience and not look on the "may have children soon" part as negative.
It's not that easy.. how many small companies can afford to pay two people for a job for a pretty long time? For them it's of vital interest to know whether they risk that danger. As long as companies face that dilemma women will be discriminated against.
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Old 06.04.2012, 14:17
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Re: Female, early 30s, recenltly married - threat of babies in the eyes of HR people?

Look, no one is actually willing to make the call here from the other side. But as an employer, sure, I'd be wary of employing someone who is about to use their womb in the name of creation. You'd have to be naïve to ignore the fact. Is it discrimination? Absolutely and you can't really morally defend that position, but as an employer with a choice, you'd be mad not to play it safe and if the prospective candidates are all suitably qualified, then I'd go for the most menopausal woman or a younger, single applicant.

Bad analogy, but it's kind of like wrecking your car first and then applying for vehicle insurance if you know that you want kids and to expect a company to sponsor your family plans.
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  #28  
Old 06.04.2012, 18:10
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Re: Female, early 30s, recenltly married - threat of babies in the eyes of HR people?

Of course it would be naive. But it would also be absurd to be afraid of it, in particular once an interview is being set up.
I've set in the hiring chair for large companies, and depending on the position one is hiring for - sometimes a young lady is perfect for the job. Am I going to shoot myself in the foot, and hire a worse-qualified person for the job? of course not. The question might be different in case of small companies, but it sounds to me that the Aleydis is looking in banking, not in the local bakery...
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Old 06.04.2012, 18:53
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Re: Female, early 30s, recenltly married - threat of babies in the eyes of HR people?

I spent most of my career in cosy investment / asset management jobs and I am now looking in all and any areas where legal (M&A, contracts adm-n, corporate and much more) background together with English and Russian skills would be useful. Unfortunately, it seems when I apply for a job in Compliance, my cv is not compliance-specific enough, though I have done compliance and risk assesment; when I apply for a job in Contract Management my cv is not CM-specific enough, though I have done enough CM and so on...

BTW. My husband (who runs a small company) is nearly the same opinion as stated in Assassin's post. Risk management.
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  #30  
Old 08.04.2012, 23:42
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Re: Female, early 30s, recenltly married - threat of babies in the eyes of HR people?

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makes perfect sense, I worked for several companies who got burnt like this, new employee is there just long enough to be entitled to maternity leave then bang, leaves everyone in the s**t

I know one woman who joined a company the same day as me, and in 4 years spent more time off work then at it, now is that fair???
This only happens because we, as a society, do not support the family unit. I think that is rather sad of us as a species.
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Old 13.04.2012, 12:01
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Re: Female, early 30s, recenltly married - threat of babies in the eyes of HR people?

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This only happens because we, as a society, do not support the family unit. I think that is rather sad of us as a species.
No, I think it is simply down to abuse of trust.

I find it sad that quite a few people are still willing to crap in the same pond that others drink from, for limited short-term gain. If I were an employer, I would admittedly be less than thrilled if one of my female workers went off on maternity leave - but I'd be very happy to have her back at the end of it, safe in the knowledge that all her operational knowledge and experience (which is often far more valuable than raw skill) can once again be brought to bear on my business problems. She can hit the ground running, in a way no new hire could.

What I do not understand or support are situations where a woman gets herself pregnant and then chooses to leave (fair play to her if she's kicked out - some companies still don't value internal experience, and that's not the woman's fault!) and eventually join another employer, without asking the previous company if they will have her back. Again, I can understand if some women asked for a sabbatical or extended unpaid leave - but quite a few openly abuse the system and make the statistical (and financial) risks of hiring a woman far greater than they ever needed to be. Quite a few abusers join a company, get trained at the employer's expense, and - just when they are becoming useful - get pregnant, collect maternity leave and then vanish.

At the end of the day, the harsh reality is that business exists to make a profit. I understand and fully appreciate women who understand this and try to minimise the impact on a business. Pregnancy is required for the next generation, and I think that maternity leave is a good price to pay in order to keep a valued employee - but only if you get to keep her. If you don't keep her, it's a very expensive drain on the business - not just because of the lost productivity, but also because of the need to hire (and train!) another temporary employee (which is often more expensive than hiring a permanent member of staff) to cover for an employee on maternity leave.

If women abuse maternity leave, an employer should be legally entitled to write this on her reference - given certain conditions are met. This gives HR a sense of being able to more readily detect (and manage) risk - but, most importantly, it gives women who plan on gaming the system reason enough to think twice before doing so. If you want to discourage bad behaviour, you should not reward it. The key is to manage this while causing the least amount of aggravation to those who do not abuse the system.

I do think that an employer should be able to expect a certain number of days to be worked for every day that is spent on maternity leave (5 seems like a reasonable number to me.) Unfortunately, some see employment as an opportunity to have several children in a row, without any consideration for their employer. This really should be subject to some kind of control - i.e. you can get pregnant for the first time with no time restrictions, but if you have not "repaid" the time (at say, a 5:1 ratio) by the time you leave or get pregnant a second time, you should not be entitled to permanently leave the company without receiving a bad reference - or go on paid maternity leave, respectively.

Last edited by Oliver Jones; 13.04.2012 at 12:06. Reason: Minor grammar change.
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