A quick question regarding holidays after notice has been given.

Assuming the holiday was booked and approved before notice was given, but it actually takes place in the three months notice period. Does the employer have any (reasonable) right to ask the employee to cancel / move the holiday? Does the employer get any additional rights, because it is now in the notice period?

In the UK I am convinced this is not the case, but you never know in CH. Anybody have any knowledge and experience with this?

From what I understand you can take the holiday if you have the required amount of days available to you.

The employer can object, he especialy will if you resigned.

I am sure he can object. But he already approved it months before the notice was given. The question is therefore, whether because of the notice, it gives him any additional right to cancel it (other than he would normally have).

Obviuously the second question then is, whether the employer is liable to refund the employee for any financial loss the employee may have due to non refundable charges etc.

The employer can object, but on the other hand, he has to allow you to take the vacation days you have earned. As far as I know, the employer cannot force you to work and then pay you for the remaining vacation time - however, there may be some backdoor "in exceptional cases" if there is a huge workload and all employee vacations have been cancelled. This should all be described in the Swiss OR (Obligationsrecht), which should be available (in English) somewhere on the web...

Read your contract and your employee code and/or holiday policy it will tell you in there.

My colleague has just resigned, he leaves officially at the end of July but has enough holiday remaining that his last day in the office will be end of June and the final month of the notice period will be taken as holiday. No problem at all, negotiated fairly between the two parties.

This is typically not dealt with in a employment contract I would say. They are typically just stating the annaul allowance. As the company is relative small, it does not have written down holiday policies, which is why I would think it would have to be as per the labour law / code.

Would anyone have a link to it?

He can force you to work until the very last day (in German they state it if there will be a betriebliche Notlage should you leave before the end of the notice period). I checked this just 3 weeks ago on the Bundesamt Website, sorry cant remember exactly what it was called. Most employers will prefer however you take the vacation (depending of course how much you have left, in my case it would have been 61 days which meant I would have left 3 days after giving notice...).
Just try to sort everything out in a nice way, that suits both parties. Maybe you can offer to work a few extra days after the notice period is over etc.

I think employers in general can always require you to change your holiday, but only if there are strong reasons therefore - probably a grey area in itself. What I am trying to work out, is whether this changes in either direction during the notice period. I appreciate handover could be used as such event in certain cases.

Fundamentally, I suspect your contract contains information regarding notice period, unless the conditions of your notice period state that you can't take holiday, then you can't, otherwise the the contract is unchanged and as long as you stay within the terms of your contract then you are.

The only thing that might change that is if your company has an employee handbook that runs in conjunction with your employment contract, but from what you said probably not.

Just make sure that the amount of holiday you have accrued or the pro-rata amount of your holiday amount is sufficient to cover the days of holiday you wish to take.

If you take the holiday the worst thing is you can be sacked........

In the Swiss companies in which I worked for in CH, they are very fair.

If given your situation, they will not touch your vacation plans whether you are in notice period or you are not.

Some jobs do have the "flexibility" that one may have to cancel or reschedule planned vacation (but this is very rare). Swiss employers are one of the best employers in the world (especially big companies with good HR policies) for respecting personal vacation time and free time.

Of course, it is easy to panic and think the employer will sabotage you. It may not be the case. Switzerland is small, word gets around if the employer is an arseloch.

That is my experience and my view. Good luck.

You really do talk a load of complete rubbish. The swiss companies I have worked for would get you to swap holidays all the time. They are definately not 'the best employers in the world'. Almost everybody I speak to regularly moans about working conditions, bad bosses etc.

I am sorry to read this. This is REALLY my experience.
It is not rubbish, FYI.

It could come down to individuals, seeing a cup half empty or half full.
All my swiss bosses have been very respectful of my vacation, etc.
What is wrong with saying facts?

Stop getting on my case. I don't know what kind of Switzerland experience you and "others" have, but this is my experience and I can honestly stand by my words.

Pretty sure that sums it up, but no doubt they could trot out 'operational need' which seems to be a caveat in most contracts theses days, how that would wash though if your leaving is another point.

EDIT... Small man complex eh Tappy?

The plus point is the vacation has been reserved for some time, it's not as though you are trying to leave early after giving in your notice.

I have had many bad Swiss bosses over 20 years. Not all bad, but too many!

Legally the employer is supposed to "work with you fairly" in the notice period when it comes to accrued vacation, taking time off for interviews and all that. However the employer can argue that because you are in a notice period they either need you to train the new person or just need you. Then nothing stops them from just paying out the vacay, or forcing you to take it at the end of your notice period. This was the discussion I usually had with the boss when handing in my resignation letter. I've had both scenarios- one where my vacation was denied and one where they allowed me to go on vacation because it extended my notice in effect and they had me two weeks longer.

Hi,

I didn't quite follow that.

My understanding is if you take a weeks holiday during your 3 mths notice, you don't have to work an additional week. The time you work will be notice period minus any holiday owing.

However, if an employer decides to fire someone during illness or maternity leave, the notice period only starts once the employee returns to work.

Sorry if I misunderstood your post.

Cheers,
Nick

When you give notice you are supposed to work the notice time unless otherwise arranged with your employer, and sometimes the employer can be a jerk about it and sometimes he can't. you are supposed to work to whatever the end date of your notice is but it is the employer's call if you take vacay in that time or not, e.g. if he doesn't want you to leave earlier he will just pay you. so i think we are saying the same thing but in different ways.

The point also becomes moot unless you are in a situation, say, where you give notice in September but had already earlier in the year put in for October vacation where it cuts right into the middle of your notice period.

Perhaps it's a difference between a Swiss managed company and a German/American/Elbonian managed company?

I don't understand "making people" work - I thought slavery had been abolished? If you worked for me and were quitting under anything other than the best of terms, I wouldn't want you on the premises. As for training up the next guy... well, there will be a lot of goodwill about that if you've had your holiday cancelled.