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  #21  
Old 11.05.2013, 14:23
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Re: Becoming a contractor; letter of intent from 3+ companies?

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It is not that easy CP.

If placed in a temporary position (by chance or by a headhunter) and if you earn over an amount (somewhere between two and three thousand Franks), then the employer is required to pay your social costs. The only way around this is to be registered as self employed and send them invoices. But then you are responsible for your own social costs.

There is no option in Switzerland to work, earn money and not pay social costs... let alone claim the income and pay taxes on it.
Thanks JC. It's the "registered as self employed" part I'm struggling with.

I'm well aware that I'll have to cover my own social costs. That's no problem. I'm used to it from the past in other countries. The real problem is to get approved.

I suppose the main reason for the Swiss authorities to be very selective is to avoid that people might not have sufficient risk assessment, go belly up and slump into poverty.

It's a catch 22. I already had a few very lucrative freelance offers since April but the companies only want independent freelancers, exactly for the social cost reason you stated. So I'm idling or get into a fixed employment again which I'm not thrilled about.

Apologies to the OP. I don't mean to hijack your post but it might be some relevant info.
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  #22  
Old 11.05.2013, 14:28
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Re: Becoming a contractor; letter of intent from 3+ companies?

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Thanks JC. It's the "registered as self employed" part I'm struggling with.

I'm well aware that I'll have to cover my own social costs. That's no problem. I'm used to it from the past in other countries. The real problem is to get approved.

I suppose the main reason for the Swiss authorities to be very selective is to avoid that people might not have sufficient risk assessment, go belly up and slump into poverty.

It's a catch 22. I already had a few very lucrative freelance offers since April but the companies only want independent freelancers, exactly for the social cost reason you stated. So I'm idling or get into a fixed employment again which I'm not thrilled about.

Apologies to the OP. I don't mean to hijack your post but it might be some relevant info.
Then register. Be sure your Zweck/purpose is as general as possible. Worst they can do is turn you down.

On top of that, you will not be billed for your social costs if you are not registered. It is not a matter of paying on your own.

If you are refused registration, there is not much you can do... outside of finding a job... or find a partner and go with a GmbH.
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  #23  
Old 11.05.2013, 14:40
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Re: Becoming a contractor; letter of intent from 3+ companies?

Cheers CP.

My application is out but I think I made a big mistake by stating that I will be billing the recruiter who then bills the client. The thing though is that all work is based on service contracts per mission, not employment contracts.

Quite honestly I need this thing to get approved to get my third pillar released but I suppose the AVS won't care much about my momentary financial woes.
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  #24  
Old 11.05.2013, 15:49
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Re: Becoming a contractor; letter of intent from 3+ companies?

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Quite honestly I need this thing to get approved to get my third pillar released but I suppose the AVS won't care much about my momentary financial woes.
Just for information, money released from the second or third pillar for business purposes must be invested in the business and you will be expected to be able to demonstrated that to be the case, if requested by the authorities.
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  #25  
Old 12.05.2013, 07:43
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Re: Becoming a contractor; letter of intent from 3+ companies?

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Just for information, money released from the second or third pillar for business purposes must be invested in the business and you will be expected to be able to demonstrated that to be the case, if requested by the authorities.
Thanks for the info. I'm well aware that the second pillar is definitely a touchy subject for the social security insurances but my banker said that releasing the third one from a bank account is no big issue.

There are many activities which don't require high investments but can incur high running costs, like travel expenses, marketing etc. Besides as an independent you are liable with all your private assets anyway, monetary or non-monetary. It wouldn't make sense that the authorities oblige me to spend the whole amount on an expensive car or something I don't even need to operate my business. I might have to declare the third pillar funds as income though. The fiscality is the point.
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  #26  
Old 13.05.2013, 14:37
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Re: Becoming a contractor; letter of intent from 3+ companies?

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Apologies to the OP. I don't mean to hijack your post but it might be some relevant info.
You are doing the work for me. Thanks given.

Ck
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  #27  
Old 13.05.2013, 14:46
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Re: Becoming a contractor; letter of intent from 3+ companies?

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Self Employed is a specific term, it's incorrect to refer to a director or an employee of company as self employed.
Self-employed may have a specific technical meaning, but it sure as anything is not specific when used by the general population.

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If your wife invoiced the same amount each month to to those 3 clients each month on a regular basis & the AHV knew that was happening, they would not accept the situation.
This is where you are factually incorrect; they were perfectly aware of the situation. Perhaps different rules in different cantons?
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  #28  
Old 13.05.2013, 20:58
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Re: Becoming a contractor; letter of intent from 3+ companies?

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Perhaps different rules in different cantons?
AFAIK the regulations about the independent status are on federal level.
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  #29  
Old 13.05.2013, 21:08
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Re: Becoming a contractor; letter of intent from 3+ companies?

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Self-employed may have a specific technical meaning, but it sure as anything is not specific when used by the general population.
Self-employed in CH (like in many other countries) means a one man show liable 100% with his private assets. You can employ or outsource to other HR but you have to take charge of all social costs yourself. Contrary to a SÓrl or SA where the CEO is in fact an employee of his own company, thus the company is in charge of the social costs even if the CEO is alone.

In many other countries you are automatically considered self-employed if you are not employed and don't have a salary but write invoices for your goods or services (not considered employed work).

Switzerland is a bit of a "bŕte curieuse" because writing invoices is not enough. Sub-contracting is considered dependent work even if you are not employed and have no salary. Only the authorities understand why...
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  #30  
Old 13.05.2013, 21:39
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Re: Becoming a contractor; letter of intent from 3+ companies?

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Self-employed in CH (like in many other countries) means a one man show liable 100% with his private assets. You can employ or outsource to other HR but you have to take charge of all social costs yourself.
Not 100% correct.

Self employed can be the owner of an AG or GmbH or Einzelfirma (sole proprietorship). Only the owner of an Einzelfirma is personally responsible for their actions, positive and negative, with their private assets.
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  #31  
Old 14.05.2013, 08:50
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Re: Becoming a contractor; letter of intent from 3+ companies?

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Not 100% correct.

Self employed can be the owner of an AG or GmbH or Einzelfirma (sole proprietorship). Only the owner of an Einzelfirma is personally responsible for their actions, positive and negative, with their private assets.
Thanks for clearing that up. I actually meant the same. I didn't mean to create confusion because of lingual terminology.

Sole proprietorship is the correct term for the status I was talking about. I call it freelance.

I didn't know the owners of a SA or SÓrl are also self-employed. I was told by the AVS that they are employees of their company. Companies are given a new AVS number but the owners keep their previous one. The registration is per activity, not per person.
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  #32  
Old 16.05.2013, 13:57
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Re: Becoming a contractor; letter of intent from 3+ companies?

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Thanks for clearing that up. I actually meant the same. I didn't mean to create confusion because of lingual terminology.

Sole proprietorship is the correct term for the status I was talking about. I call it freelance.

I didn't know the owners of a SA or SÓrl are also self-employed. I was told by the AVS that they are employees of their company. Companies are given a new AVS number but the owners keep their previous one. The registration is per activity, not per person.
Though not "owners", the owners of GmbH or AG/SA are better known as shareholders.
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Old 16.05.2013, 14:05
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Re: Becoming a contractor; letter of intent from 3+ companies?

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Sole proprietorship is the correct term for the status I was talking about. I call it freelance.
.
Freelance in CH is used to describe employees who work for multiple companies, there is even a special pension fund . In the UK it means the same as self employed.
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  #34  
Old 23.05.2013, 17:11
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Re: Becoming a contractor; letter of intent from 3+ companies?

Personal experience as trying to be a contractor : I have presented invoices and quotations to the authority in order to register mysel as "einzelfirma" but it was rejected to the motives that my clients were not swiss based ...
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  #35  
Old 23.05.2013, 17:55
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Re: Becoming a contractor; letter of intent from 3+ companies?

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Personal experience as trying to be a contractor : I have presented invoices and quotations to the authority in order to register mysel as "einzelfirma" but it was rejected to the motives that my clients were not swiss based ...
There was also another reason as this in iteslf is not a good enough reason for refusal.
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  #36  
Old 23.05.2013, 18:06
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Re: Becoming a contractor; letter of intent from 3+ companies?

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There was also another reason as this in iteslf is not a good enough reason for refusal.
I agree, it's possible to become 'part time self employed' with one client & as I did a few years ago. 100% self employed is a very different matter & rather more difficult.
By the time I had paid the AHV contributions it was not worth doing the work!
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  #37  
Old 31.03.2015, 23:25
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Re: Becoming a contractor; letter of intent from 3+ companies?

Is there a difference in Switzerland between doing freelance work (part-time), and being registered as a part-time contractor? If you want to do freelance work, is registration a requirement, and if not accepted can you still do freelance work (and how is this income declared and who pays the social charges)?

And...if you want to be a registered contractor, do you have to do this work full-time/main source of income?

And...if you work part-time, and work freelance/contract part-time - does this impact rights to unemployment assistance in the future, i.e. does the part time contract work cancel out the right to benefits from the part-time paid work?

Last edited by eireann; 31.03.2015 at 23:52. Reason: more questions
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  #38  
Old 01.04.2015, 00:03
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Re: Becoming a contractor; letter of intent from 3+ companies?

Here, but unfortunately not in English, is the definition of 'Self Employment' and 'Employment', with examples, from the Swiss Federal Administration Web Site:
(Ger) http://www.seco.admin.ch/keine-schwa...04460/?lang=de
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  #39  
Old 01.04.2015, 12:51
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Re: Becoming a contractor; letter of intent from 3+ companies?

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Is there a difference in Switzerland between doing freelance work (part-time), and being registered as a part-time contractor? If you want to do freelance work, is registration a requirement, and if not accepted can you still do freelance work (and how is this income declared and who pays the social charges)?

And...if you want to be a registered contractor, do you have to do this work full-time/main source of income?

And...if you work part-time, and work freelance/contract part-time - does this impact rights to unemployment assistance in the future, i.e. does the part time contract work cancel out the right to benefits from the part-time paid work?
A contractor is an employee, your not taking risk, you have a contract........being part time makes no difference.

If you rent an office, offer your services to everybody who wants them you are taking a risk & self employed. You might have no work & spend money on rent .
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