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  #141  
Old 03.10.2009, 23:40
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Re: Aupair/ Babysitter rates

Babysitter rates can be between 5-20 chf per hour.

Here are some locals discussing babysitter rates.

In the evenings we usually give 40 -50 chf for the whole evening. (7 or 8pm - 10 or 11pm) but we have 3 kids, though they are asleep when the babysitter gets there (in theory! - last time one ended up reading the 2 big kids (adged 3 & 5) books until 10.30pm!!!)
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  #142  
Old 12.10.2009, 15:28
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Re: Wages for nannies..

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Let me give you some information here.

Nannies - the general salary here is anywhere between 3500 and 4500. There will be no pension contribution in that amount but the social side from the employers side will be paid on top of this although you won't see it. The deductions from this brutto amount will be the normal swiss if it is done legally and nothing if you come to some sort of arrangement -although your rights in the latter case will be reduced!

Aupair - you hit the nail on the head here 700 is typical live in and max 35 hrs per week and only light house work. There are serious restrictions though on being an aupair such as only EU or US, Canada and OZ, NZL citizens can apply. The maximum stay is an L permit ie 18 months. You cannot share the same mother tongue as the family so if 1 is English and the other German speaking that cuts out half of Europe plus the other countries and you are subject to quotas in the same way as other employees. As you can imagine I see it all as part of the big conspiracy to stop mothers going to work...

If you want to discuss any points mentioned above, know where to advertise your services etc let me know.
Hello,
This was all useful info. Have a couple more questions.My au Pair is from Spain. The various city departments have told me she could stay more than a year on the L permit. Second question is she has health insurance from Spain. Does she need to get additional insurance here. Hopefully somebody can answer me these questions.I speak german however all the city places I called nobody could give me a definite answer. thanks
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  #143  
Old 12.10.2009, 19:08
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Re: The Au Pair/Nanny employment thread

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Yes, Au-pairs are typically paid 700-900 over here and yes you are right it IS UNDERPAID. I used to be an aupair a few years ago and I assure no matter what is included (rent, food, language course) this isn' t enough. It makes me cringe when I hear parents talking about how this is a perfectly fine wage.

These are your CHILDREN do you really wanna bargain on their care? You pay someone just enough and they'll do just enough but they will not be happy in Switzerland on that wage. Au pairs hangout with each other and moan about their jobs to each other. On that wage I ate never outside the house except the odd falafel which was a real treat. I was hardly able to leave Zurich and when I did it was on less then a "budget" travel.

For any parents looking to for a "good" aupair pay them well and they will treat your children well. Give them the bare minimum and that's all you can expect in return.

i totally agree with this! I'm still currently working as an au pair, and i get paid less than 780CHF, which is NOTHING. yes, you get a room, fully paid for Deutsch school, and food. But if i think about it, they never asked me what kind of food i wanted, it's more of "whatever is there" you can eat.
on top of that, if you're paying bills, it isn't enough, you can't even save money.

Holidays are arranged by the family, so they can deny you if you plan for a vacation and they don't want you to leave those days.

all in all, i think au pairs/nannies should get paid more.

best place to look for a nanny or wanting to become an au pair/ nanny is PROFILIA.CH it took them only 2 weeks to finish all my paperwork and find me a family, best thing about being english speaking is that they are MOST WANTED, families pay more for au pairs from US or Canada.
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  #144  
Old 10.11.2009, 10:19
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Re: The Au Pair/Nanny employment thread (no ads!)

The main purpose of the Au Pair concept is to help college-aged students gain second language skills by giving them an opportunity to live long-term with a European family. Thus, they get a chance to be "immersed" in the language they are learning. It's not really meant to be a "profit-making" full-time job as you would hope for in any other type of work. Thus, you get a chance to experience "full-immersion" (free room and board) in return for babysitting and light housekeeping and some pocket money to tide you over until you leave.

Families mistakenly (I feel), look to au pairs as a nanny alternative but cheaper. This puts au pairs in a difficult position where more is asked of them than what they expect to give. Families may expect professional housekeeping/cooking/babysitting skills and the maturity of someone much older; but end up with a college-student inexperienced in all of the above!

Au pairs need to come into this with their eyes "wide-open" and realize they will not make a whole lot of money since this is not the point of the "au pair" program. There's a good chance there will be miscommunication and misunderstandings due the language-barrier and different expectations regarding child discipline, housekeeping etc. etc. There are problems in this realm even without the added second-language factor.

When I was in university, my friend (from Canada) took on an au pair job in Paris (to study French). She told me there were a lot of problems and she didn't have a smashing time. She was only in her early twenties. When I was that age, I didn't have a clue about housekeeping or childcare. I personally would hesitate hiring someone so young and inexperienced to look after my children in a full-time/live-in situation, imho. Occasional evening help I would be willing but the au pair program is only full-time/live-in.

My advice is that if you're looking for an au pair, your intent should include helping out a young student with their second language learning and not just finding cheap babysitting.

If you're looking for a nanny, then hire a nanny.

Hope this information helps someone.

PS. I have had experience with 3 live-in maids/nannies and several more that lived-out. This was in Asia. It's a huge learning curve having live-in help. People who have never experienced it have NO IDEA! Thus, I would not consider full-time nanny help (live-in or live-out) unless the lady had extensive previous experience and even better--has had experience raising her own children. There's a world of difference between someone who has raised her own children and one that doesn't have children. This is not to say that woman who haven't had children can't do a good job. But, there is a world of difference still. I know some families that will only accept someone "married" as well (a possibility in Asia, but not in Europe). I see their point too but won't elaborate here as this thread is about Europe.

Last edited by MusicalMommy; 10.11.2009 at 10:35.
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  #145  
Old 29.03.2010, 14:12
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Re: The Au Pair/Nanny employment thread (no ads!)

Hi all,

Lausanne area, EU8, age 25+

please would somone clarify following:

1. Permit:
- can you clarify that EU8 member just need residence permit or require L permit as well?

2. Health Insurance:
- who should pay this family or AuPair
- which company and option is best for 6 months (no plans to visit any doctor or no requirement for any medicament), therfore will be the best to choose deductible CHF 300?
- is accidental coverage required??
- EHI and EU8 health insurance has to be paid as well or need to be stopped for the 6 months?

3. Social insurance
- does this needs to be paid and by who

4. Tax (Income tax - CHF 900/ month)
- who should pay this and how

5. Language courses
- who should pay this

6. Renting studio
- what will be required if AuPair would like to rent studio instead of living with family (Of course that this will be cost affective, but everybody has own reasons)
- is there possible help from family, can they arrnage it for her. Considering the issue that it is difficult to find one for EU8 member, with low income, but loads of savings and good references
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  #146  
Old 02.04.2010, 23:51
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The Au Pair/Nanny employment thread (no ads!)

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I paid CHF 1,500 plus live-in(Studio Flat), all costs(Travel, Luxurious food & Drink incl. stops at starbucks). Is that enough, or am I destroying the mkt? My au-pair worked 45 hrs a week, of which I would considcer 25hrs to be real work(and I am being generous).
Agree that is alot and is not the norm, also thought that Au-pair's are only allowed work 30 hrs a wk max. Perhaps she is an underpaid nanny?
Do not think you are destroying the market.

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Babysitter rates can be between 5-20 chf per hour.

Here are some locals discussing babysitter rates.

In the evenings we usually give 40 -50 chf for the whole evening. (7 or 8pm - 10 or 11pm) but we have 3 kids, though they are asleep when the babysitter gets there (in theory! - last time one ended up reading the 2 big kids (adged 3 & 5) books until 10.30pm!!!)

Wow that's alot, I'd babysit for you at a drop of a hat for that amount!
Website v.useful, thanks.

Last edited by vwild1; 03.04.2010 at 00:19. Reason: merged 2 successive posts into 1
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  #147  
Old 09.07.2010, 00:44
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Taxes and Wages for Swiss nanny

We're moving this summer to Canton Luzern and have found a nanny/au pair in Sweden who is actually a Swiss citizen but has never lived in Switzerland. We're currently negotiating her package and I was wondering whether anyone could give me some guidance on these two questions:

1) Can we negotiate any wage/benefits/etc. that is mutually acceptable or do we need to follow some sort of minimum wage? She would be live-in and work about 25 hours/week

2) I've been told that, because she's a Swiss citizen, we don't have to withhold taxes from her salary - she would be responsible for paying them at year-end instead. does anyone know if this is true? I know that we need to have accident insurance for her, but are there other fees that would need to be paid, even if no taxes are withheld?
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  #148  
Old 09.07.2010, 09:12
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Re: Taxes and Wages for Swiss nanny

You need to register her as your employee through the AHV office. This may mean that they will bill you and pay her salary, but deduct tax at source even though she is Swiss.

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2) I've been told that, because she's a Swiss citizen, we don't have to withhold taxes from her salary - she would be responsible for paying them at year-end instead. does anyone know if this is true? I know that we need to have accident insurance for her, but are there other fees that would need to be paid, even if no taxes are withheld?
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  #149  
Old 09.07.2010, 09:22
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Re: The Au Pair/Nanny employment thread (no ads!)

Have a look on www.au-pair-world.co.uk that will give you the salary and compensation rates and expectations for au pairs in most countries.

700chf is standard for Switzerland as i understand it.
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  #150  
Old 12.07.2010, 12:21
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Re: Taxes and Wages for Swiss nanny

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We're moving this summer to Canton Luzern and have found a nanny/au pair in Sweden who is actually a Swiss citizen but has never lived in Switzerland. We're currently negotiating her package and I was wondering whether anyone could give me some guidance on these two questions:

1) Can we negotiate any wage/benefits/etc. that is mutually acceptable or do we need to follow some sort of minimum wage? She would be live-in and work about 25 hours/week

2) I've been told that, because she's a Swiss citizen, we don't have to withhold taxes from her salary - she would be responsible for paying them at year-end instead. does anyone know if this is true? I know that we need to have accident insurance for her, but are there other fees that would need to be paid, even if no taxes are withheld?
You have some good suggestions here so I would strongly suggest reading them. Note though the following.

You are giving her a live-in job. This means, from a benefits perspective, that you are providing a benefit in kind of full board. The Swiss value that at CHF 990 per month.
You also don't mention the age of the au-pair, this can be very relevant. So effectively you need to work with the salary you pay her, which should be around the CHF 700 and she should receive this net of deductions.
You will need to get an accident insurance for her and you will need to cover the social expenses which will run to around 12% of the total. The total for calculating this will then be around 1700 and not 700.

Tax for Swiss citizens is paid by the employee and not employer.
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  #151  
Old 12.07.2010, 12:32
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Re: The Au Pair/Nanny employment thread (no ads!)

How does the employee (au pair) pay the tax at source, since we know how quickly the Swiss sort their taxes out. We found it better to just to pay the au pair a sum every month and then sort out the tax and social contriburions on her behalf at a later date. Some of her costs were deducted agaist the tax.
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  #152  
Old 07.11.2010, 12:31
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Re: The Au Pair/Nanny employment thread (no ads!)

It is some what confusing, as there are so many agencies that offer aupairs from Philippes, Lattivia...etc who are more positioned as a home worker that an au pair.
For me an aupair, helps the chidren with homework, activities...etc and perhaps dinner if parents arrive late, Her housework chores should only be helping the children clothes...etc, but not Cleaning or heavy housework.
The hours are 30 per week, with 2 baysittings, and classes offered to learn language. The going rate is 850 CHF

A house keeper, does the cleaning, washing, ironing...etc but has little time to help with giving the echildren experiences. She can obviously cook and follow them, but she will not encourage other activities. Average full time salaries are 3500 CHF - 900 for logings.

So how does one adapt, to have only one person living at home, but want both services, cleaning while kids are in school, and helping them activities, driving..etc when they are back from school. It seems impossible to find ?
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  #153  
Old 09.11.2010, 14:12
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Re: The Au Pair/Nanny employment thread (no ads!)

Hello everyone, I have read through this thread and found it very informative.

I need to employ a nanny as I finally found a job (only took me a year...). I am happy to pay the going rate in Geneva as well as all the AVS etc, after all these are my children, so I am not going to scrimp and save on that.

What confuses me is the situation regarding employing people without permis. I know you can still pay the AVS through cheque-service, and you are fine from the fiscal point of view. But what are your responsibilities regarding the work permit? Can you still be fined? Is there a way to get your employee a permis?

I would normally never consider hiring someone without papers, but a) it seems to me it's what everyone does and b) the best ladies I've interviewed are all here without permis.

thanks for any advice.
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  #154  
Old 09.11.2010, 14:15
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Re: The Au Pair/Nanny employment thread (no ads!)

Employing someone without a permit is just plain stupid. You would be in a whole heap of trouble if/when youget caught, it is not worth the trouble. Why even risk it when you can easily employ an EU national to be your nanny totally legally?

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Hello everyone, I have read through this thread and found it very informative.

I need to employ a nanny as I finally found a job (only took me a year...). I am happy to pay the going rate in Geneva as well as all the AVS etc, after all these are my children, so I am not going to scrimp and save on that.

What confuses me is the situation regarding employing people without permis. I know you can still pay the AVS through cheque-service, and you are fine from the fiscal point of view. But what are your responsibilities regarding the work permit? Can you still be fined? Is there a way to get your employee a permis?

I would normally never consider hiring someone without papers, but a) it seems to me it's what everyone does and b) the best ladies I've interviewed are all here without permis.

thanks for any advice.
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  #155  
Old 09.11.2010, 14:27
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Re: The Au Pair/Nanny employment thread (no ads!)

thanks Lou, in principle I completely agree with you, however:

1) can you please spell out what the "whole heap of trouble" is? Because instincitvely it should be so, and everybody mentions "but if you get caught..." but no one I spoke to seems to be able to tell me exactly what would happen, or point me to the right links/legislation. I'd like to have some facts.

and

2) it is actually not that easy to find EU nationals- it is a tight job market for the "right" type of candidate. Again, this would be my preference, but it just seems to be extremely hard.

thanks!
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  #156  
Old 09.11.2010, 14:44
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Re: The Au Pair/Nanny employment thread (no ads!)

It is not a principle it is the law. At worst you can be fined (I think it is up to CHF45,000), jailed & put any renewal of your residency permit in jepordy. You can find details here: http://www.pas-de-travail-au-noir.ch/index.html?lang=fr

You need to keep looking for the right person you can employ legally, I know it is not easy I employ a nanny myself & it did take some time to find the right person but it is not impossible. I have heard some horror stories about people employing nannies illegally one of which the nanny ended up pregnant with no health insurance and blackmailed her employers into paying for all costs for the pregnancy since the employers knew they would be in a lot of trouble if the authorites found out. It is just not worth the stress. Keep looking & good luck!

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thanks Lou, in principle I completely agree with you, however:

1) can you please spell out what the "whole heap of trouble" is? Because instincitvely it should be so, and everybody mentions "but if you get caught..." but no one I spoke to seems to be able to tell me exactly what would happen, or point me to the right links/legislation. I'd like to have some facts.

and

2) it is actually not that easy to find EU nationals- it is a tight job market for the "right" type of candidate. Again, this would be my preference, but it just seems to be extremely hard.

thanks!
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  #157  
Old 09.11.2010, 14:55
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Re: The Au Pair/Nanny employment thread (no ads!)

thanks for the link- I've had a look.

I'll keep searching for a person with the right personality, the right qualifications, and the right papers... it feels rather daunting right now
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  #158  
Old 09.11.2010, 15:02
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Re: The Au Pair/Nanny employment thread (no ads!)

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thanks for the link- I've had a look.

I'll keep searching for a person with the right personality, the right qualifications, and the right papers... it feels rather daunting right now
It took my wife the best part of a year to find someone who was willing to do everything officially and pay well. I don't think there is any shortage of good qualified nannys looking for jobs

But like you said yourself please do pay them a decent wage!
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  #159  
Old 09.11.2010, 15:40
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Re: The Au Pair/Nanny employment thread (no ads!)

Sorry for repeating myself - but an Au Pair and a Nanny position are 2 totally different jobs, with totally different responsibilities. A Nanny should be fully qualified (NNEB in UK or equivalent) and takes full and sole charge of children including babies/toddlers- and is paid accordingly (in UK the same as a primary school teacher). An Au Pair has no qualifications and often little relevant experience, and should only be a mother's help/support - and never in sole charge, especially of very young children. They are paid accordingly and should NOT be used as cheap nannies.
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Old 03.12.2010, 15:13
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Re: The Au Pair/Nanny employment thread (no ads!)

I plan to hire a nanny for one day a week for a few hours. What do I need to do legally? I don't want anything to be illegal. She is foreign and speaks english. What rate per an hour should I charge?

Thanks!
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