Hi Pals,

I am software engineer with 4 years of experience with various web technologies (Java, J2EE, etc). I have been offered 80000 chf per annum (6600 per month) by a small software firm located in Zurich. My visa is in processing and it would take a month for me to reach Swiss. I would like to know

1. WHETHER MY SALARY IS PAR WITH SWISS IT STANDARDS AND IF NOT WHAT IS THE AVERAGE SALARY (salaryexpert.com says 162526 is average and 128720 is low. Are these figures justify the actual scenario) ?

2. WHAT WOULD BE MY NET SALARY PER MONTH (after deductions X,Y,Z) ?

3. HOW MUCH DO I NEED TO SPEND FOR MY MONTHLY EXPENSES (House, Food, Internet, etc . I am single) AND WHETHER I WILL BE ABLE TO SAVE SOME MONEY (I heard swiss cost of living is high) ?

It would be of great help if anyone can answer my questions.

Thanks in advance.

Regards,
Prax.

Prax,

80K is in the low end for that profession and your current experience. If you still have the opportunity to negotiate, then try to make this figure higher (I don't know what other benefits you have though). Depending on your standard of living, you may be confortable or not with such amount.
Being in a small firm you have the benefits of a rewarding job but at the same time salaries can't match to those offered by those larger (and sometimes less exciting) firms. That's generellay the reality in Switzerland, US, Brazil, Autralia or any other palce in the world.
Check this site for your other questions, you will find lot of resoruces.
Hope this helps.

Hi Prax,

The answers to questions 2 and 3 can be found by doing a search - they are common questions (understandably) and you will find a lot of info about taxes and the cost of living on this forum.

Barbra.

[1] Its low, but there is a difference between experience and experienced and also what qualifications etc, you have.

[2] My guess would be to deduct 25 to 30% from your gross, others here will know better than me. Also I think there is a salary calculator somewhere!

[3] Variable, if you are prepared to live in shared accommodation and live on rice, then not a lot. If you prefer a nice apartment to yourself and good food etc, you will not have a bean left!

Search the forum as I have seen some reasonably quoted figures given before.

Salaryexpert figures are bullsh!t. The rest of your questions are extensively covered in existing threads.

salaryexpert.com is usually too high.
In fact, I've no idea where they get the figures.

Is it good enough for you? A simple yes or no...

To put things in perspective, the average *family* income here is around 60,000.

It's also not as expensive as you think: and of course you'll be able to save... that's why we're here mostly...

under 30 and permanent employee with a degree and some experience tops off at about 90'000 unless you're specialised or lucky. That's the market right now.

You will be able to survive and save on that. One bedroomed apartment in the right place is under 1500 francs a month. Deductions will be ~20% (ballpark figure, excluding health insurance).

Dear EF members,

I have a similar situation with the OP and need your advice/feedback/tips for few things.

Background:
I'm a 27 years old IT Professional with 5 years experience of web technologies (ASP, .NET, J2EE, Flex, Adobe Enterprise, etc) in Asia. In my previous company(small/mid IT vendor), I was gradually doing more & more stuff such as app development, tech support, presales, training instructor, project leader and project manager. I'm holding a bachelor degree (hons) in Comp Sci and have a few certifications i.e national certified IT project manager (not PMP/PRINCE2), Adobe Certified Instructor, MCAD, etc.

At the moment, I'm holding a non-EU C permit and have been living in Zurich city for almost 2 months. I don't speak German but already started taking semi-private German language lesson with my spouse.

After few rounds of interview & testing, recently I have been offered a permanent position as software developer by a small/mid IT company located just outside of Zurich city. After few negotiations, the starting salary that has been offered to me is 108k per year incl. 13 month salary (initial offer is 85k per year). Annual bonus is not guaranteed (max 1 month salary). Other benefits are pretty standard I believe i.e. 5 weeks holiday, extra few days off for special events, private accident insurance, social insurance, pension fund, paid travel expenses, company sponsored master education w/ 2 years bond, etc.

Questions:
1. Do I get a reasonable good deal in term of salary + benefit for IT job in Zurich?

2. I'm interested to get a job as junior PL/PM in banking or insurance industry in near future. I managed to get a phone interview at one of the big bank here but it was not succesful due to my lack of experience as project-leader in banking. Does anyone have some advice/tips for me on how can I achieve this goal?

PS: For admin, I apologised if my post is considered a thread-hijacking.

To me it feels you're getting a fair deal, yes. You're young, the company has to kind of sponsor you as you're non-EU, you're foreigner. Yeah, I feel the risk and opportunities are shared fairly in your case. Specially considering the fact that you actually don't seem to be very interested in the job. This of course the employer may suspect and thus, why give to great a deal to someone that may leave as soon as a BBD comes up.

Seems to me like some companies are taking advantage of foreigners for cheaper labor, since they don't have a clue to the cost of living or taxes. I would venture to guess that a Swissie would earn significantly more with the same profile.

If you are EU in IT, then you can probably command a small premium. Or you could until recently.
The Swiss don't do IT generally and non-EU are a lot of hassle.

I totally disagree. My experience is that Swiss people tend to earn _less_ than the foreigners. I can assure you that "significantly" more would be the exception and not the rule, "Swisse" or not.

don't forget, if you are non-eu then the employer will have already had to stuff around advertising locally and internationally, vetting applicants and investigating the immigration options with you.

Sure, the time and hassle is in advertising the position and getting the work permit, but it doesn't cost them big bucks...and to attract you to the job doesn't necessarily cost them any extra...

If they have gone to the hassle of trying to employ someone who is non-eu then by definition they have a position that has been hard to fill, and has probably been vacant for some period of time - in my recent (and limited experience), on the one hand, you have bargaining power because they *really* want to fill the position - on the other hand, they don't know you from bar of soap, and have no loyalty to you personally, and until you actually walk through the door and turn up for work, they have no guarantee that you are actually going to work for them!

Having recently arrived from Sydney, Australia, an area considered one of the most expensive in the world (we could have done better to live outside of Sydney financially!)... - we are finding the cost of living not so bad here...in fact, with the salary differential, I think we could do quite well...

Answering the original questions -

I'd agree with others posting that 25-30% allowed for taxes and other deductions is reasonable, 1500chf per month is a good budget for a nice apartment in an area close to your place of work, and as a single person you should be able to do very nicely on that amount of cash...of course, all lifestyles vary too - we are a family of five and we know how to live on a tight budget, and our current budget is definitely not tight!

There are also heaps of ways to make life cheaper.

My other word of caution would be to ensure you have adequately covered your relocation costs - what is your employer offering towards these costs - list them down (for your own information) - airfares, travel insurance, visa costs, any other transport, freight of personal belongings, furniture, deposit on apartment, setup cost for phone,internet,mobile, etc...it adds up fast, plus any loss of income if you have a period of time between jobs...

This could be because many foreigners are recruited from abroad to fill specialist positions that can't be filled locally. They need to offer a competitive salary to make the move attractive.

OP: 80k is not a lot for the technologies listed. You should negotiate a little more, especially if you have any db knowledge.

I would seriously reconsider moving here just for that job/salary. If you have any ties with Switzerland or really want to move here then that's another matter.

I totally agree, 80k for a J2EE specialist in Zurich is definitely not enough. I would ask for something between 100-105k (for 4 years experience). Some companies really seem to be taking the p*ss.

Which is exactly what FXF was offered. FXF whom my answer was intended for, not the OP :-)

Thank you all for your feedbacks especially Tilia. Based on some of the feedbacks I think I get a reasonably fair deal. Eventhough I'm a non-EU C permit holder, however this will be my first job in Switzerland. So I understand that the company kind of sponsoring me as someone new here.

Any feedback/advice regarding my other question i.e.
"I'm interested to get a job as junior PL/PM in banking or insurance industry in the future. I managed to get a phone interview at one of the big bank here but it was not succesful due to my lack of experience as project-leader in banking. Does anyone have some advice/tips for me on how can I achieve this goal?"

Sorry all for causing the confusion. I thought it's better for me to reuse a similar thread to post my own question.

You don't necessarily need banking or insurance experience, but without it you will need to be very good at what you do.

I have worked in insurance (re-insurance) without prior experience and my husband moved into banking by simply being one of the best at what he does. There is no such thing as too techie in our industry

I wouldn't recommend starting as a junior in either of these industries - you have the experience and should be able to start in a good position.

Hi
I think "junior PL/PM" means "junior Project Leader/Project Manager"?

Hi Prax,

There is a general trend in the Swiss IT market at present to employ non-EU nationals, particularly Indians, at lower salaries/rates than people who are already established here. 80 000 CHF would be consistent with this.

Often Switzerland operates on a time lag behind the US and UK. This is the latest flawed attempt at cost-saving by aping what has happened in the US without recognizing the differences between the markets.

By all means negotiate but consider how secure you are. How easy would it be for this company to employ someone else non-EU to fill this position. Perhaps it would be better to get over here and then consider your options.

Good Luck.