Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Employment
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 24.09.2014, 14:17
soon2go's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 68
Groaned at 10 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 20 Times in 14 Posts
soon2go has become a little unpopularsoon2go has become a little unpopular
Long term Unemployment

20 Months now for me and I am very SCARED, fustrated and feel so trapped

Anyone else in a similar situation?

PhD looking for first 'real' job
  #2  
Old 24.09.2014, 18:54
lutz.wiebe's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Winterthur
Posts: 68
Groaned at 2 Times in 1 Post
Thanked 59 Times in 27 Posts
lutz.wiebe has no particular reputation at present
Re: Long term Unemployment

Wow.. with PhD and no job after such a long time? May I ask what your PhD is in?

After 2 years of PhD in power electronics (got bored of the paperwork and quit) it took me roughly 2 months to find a job in my field.
  #3  
Old 24.09.2014, 19:21
soon2go's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 68
Groaned at 10 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 20 Times in 14 Posts
soon2go has become a little unpopularsoon2go has become a little unpopular
Re: Long term Unemployment

Molecular biology. And many of my former biology PhD colleagues unemployed 1 year+

The trouble is that for my field there are almost no jobs so you are forced to find a new career path....but without prior industry experience or a connection within a company you are screwed.
It does not help that I can not speak and write German (many alternate career paths are therefore closed to me).

Biology PhD oversupply, shit economy and companies eliminating research to focus on buying IP rather than developing their own. Then of course even if you get an interview the hiring manager will stress that they are very vary of hiring a newly minted PhD (because they naturally assume that you will leave as soon as you have some industry experience and get the high paying job you deserve after 10 years at University with no money ).
  #4  
Old 24.09.2014, 19:25
Divesnowboy's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Konwileggdorf
Posts: 484
Groaned at 5 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 353 Times in 166 Posts
Divesnowboy has an excellent reputationDivesnowboy has an excellent reputationDivesnowboy has an excellent reputationDivesnowboy has an excellent reputation
Re: Long term Unemployment

Have you tried volunteer work? Could lead to something positive...
This user would like to thank Divesnowboy for this useful post:
  #5  
Old 24.09.2014, 19:27
Phil_MCR's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 11,478
Groaned at 246 Times in 157 Posts
Thanked 13,334 Times in 5,679 Posts
Phil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Long term Unemployment

Which is why I advise getting work experience before going for the PhD. Maybe broaden your search beyond your specialism to see if there's something else you could do?
  #6  
Old 24.09.2014, 19:50
Jim2007's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Kt. Bern
Posts: 2,086
Groaned at 34 Times in 32 Posts
Thanked 2,066 Times in 1,055 Posts
Jim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Long term Unemployment

Quote:
View Post
It does not help that I can not speak and write German (many alternate career paths are therefore closed to me).
But surely after 20 months you must have been able to learn a lot of German???
The following 2 users would like to thank Jim2007 for this useful post:
  #7  
Old 24.09.2014, 20:39
Samaire13's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: CH
Posts: 2,339
Groaned at 59 Times in 46 Posts
Thanked 3,477 Times in 1,363 Posts
Samaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Long term Unemployment

I can imagine your frustration and I feel for you. Regardless, I have to say I had the same thought - if German/language skills is an issue, why did you not learn it in the last 20 months? And you know, maybe Switzerland just isn't the place for you. If language is a barrier, why don't you consider other countries? Or is there a reason you are absolutely set on Switzerland?

Many recent grads, no matter on what level, struggle with entering the workforce, for a variety of reasons. I've been working with grads for a long time and what I often see is that they're pretty unrealistic in what their first job should look like. You have some 30+ years ahead of you, the first job isn't usually the perfect one. Sometimes broadening one's own horizon and considering entirely alternate paths isn't the worst thing - it may open up a whole new perspective and exciting opportunities.

Of course these are just thoughts, I have no idea where you applied to and how often, whether it's unrealistic expectations or not etc.
The following 4 users would like to thank Samaire13 for this useful post:
  #8  
Old 24.09.2014, 23:00
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 299
Groaned at 67 Times in 27 Posts
Thanked 219 Times in 111 Posts
UktoSwiss is considered a nuisanceUktoSwiss is considered a nuisanceUktoSwiss is considered a nuisance
Re: Long term Unemployment

Hi,


trained as a molecular biologist (PhD level) myself, I know how difficult it is.
I did a postdoc and then moved to life sciences and pharma sales and marketing position. Means it is possible, although not easy, to have a successful career with a PhD in molecular biology. Salary about 115-120 K CHF slightly lower than the survival limit on this website though-


A few tips:


- do yourself a favour and look at what is positive in yourself, e.g. your experience. For instance if you are a native English speaker this is a great asset to work in medical writing, within or outside (agencies) big pharma.
- there is no "alternative career". I mean academic research is NOT the main road forward, it is only ONE alternative among many. I did chose to leave research a few years ago and this was a very good decision.
- Make a list of all your competences and use them when building your CV, while making sure they are in line with the kind of jobs you are applying for. I am sure you did at least one thing in the last two years.
- Know yourself and what you like. It will make things much easier once you know roughly where you want to be.


If you need more tips please PM me. Good luck!
The following 4 users would like to thank UktoSwiss for this useful post:
  #9  
Old 24.09.2014, 23:53
moggy's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Thurgau (& London, UK)
Posts: 1,488
Groaned at 10 Times in 9 Posts
Thanked 768 Times in 511 Posts
moggy has a reputation beyond reputemoggy has a reputation beyond reputemoggy has a reputation beyond reputemoggy has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Long term Unemployment

Quote:
View Post
20 Months now for me and I am very SCARED, frustrated and feel so trapped

Anyone else in a similar situation?

PhD looking for first 'real' job
Your profile is very limited. had previously scanned some of your other threads.

no idea how you are being supported & none of my business.

There is great worth IMO of supporting oneself.

Many years ago I participated in candidates for various office positions being interviewed. There were some oddities in the interviews IMO. Afterwards we asked both the interviewer and the successful some of the questions asked.

One example for International Organisational, albeit in UK many years ago,

The Interviewer was impressed by University Qualified Person, as they had shown in their CV had taken labourer job for a summer, rather than been unemployed and job market was low for whatever they were looking for. This person got a front office position if those are the words, they were well presented for the interview. Believe me the interviewer was a bit odd. At one point went out to buy slippers for self!
This user would like to thank moggy for this useful post:
  #10  
Old 27.09.2014, 23:25
soon2go's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 68
Groaned at 10 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 20 Times in 14 Posts
soon2go has become a little unpopularsoon2go has become a little unpopular
Re: Long term Unemployment

In reply to some of the above posts:

Yes I am learning German (and I speak some French) but I need to become fluent in writing and speaking and that takes time. I am not a language person and have not had time (or the money) for intensive training.

Yes I have been working as a volunteer (full time for the last 6 months) but it is unpaid and not something that will lead to a job afterwards...just to keep busy.

Yes my profile is limited, but to be fair I am looking for my FIRST job after graduating....I am pretty sure that many others on this forum had equally 'limited' profiles directly after graduating.

As for expectations...I don't expect my first job to be perfect, just to be a stepping stone, hopefully leading to a stable career. I just need the chance to prove myself.

And finally, anyone who thinks young graduates have 'unrealistic' job expectations should read the job advertisements that companies post describing their ideal 'entry-level' candidate
  #11  
Old 28.09.2014, 09:22
Clumsy Maman's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Kt Zurich
Posts: 701
Groaned at 9 Times in 6 Posts
Thanked 934 Times in 420 Posts
Clumsy Maman has a reputation beyond reputeClumsy Maman has a reputation beyond reputeClumsy Maman has a reputation beyond reputeClumsy Maman has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Long term Unemployment

One of the reasons why some job ads are so specific is because said company already has a candidate in mind and is simply advertising to fulfil the requirements to advertise before their chosen candidate gets a visa. In the O&G it is quite often like that!

Did you not do internships when you did your Masters and PhD? Perhaps these are contacts you can try to push for? If after 20 months, you have not found anything, perhaps time to pick yourself up and go in a new direction! A friend of mine did her PhD in Geophysics, but is now heading a big reinsurance team! Her heart was set on Geophysics, and was very upset when she was refused a job where I was working (she was very good, but some companies target certain nationalities to target certain markets!). But now she is very happy, doing a job she has learnt to enjoy!

Now is the time for you to make the move; if you don't you will find that it will get even more difficult to follow a different path! Age can be a b!tch!

Good luck!
  #12  
Old 28.09.2014, 11:01
Uncle Max's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Züri
Posts: 7,390
Groaned at 160 Times in 109 Posts
Thanked 7,735 Times in 3,203 Posts
Uncle Max has a reputation beyond reputeUncle Max has a reputation beyond reputeUncle Max has a reputation beyond reputeUncle Max has a reputation beyond reputeUncle Max has a reputation beyond reputeUncle Max has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Long term Unemployment

I know very little on molecular biology; I'd gladly read a MB for Dummies book, or watch a series of YouTube shorts, or attend an evening of merry discussion of the pressing / sexy questions currently challenging Molecular Biologists.

You don't have to 'do' to make money from what you love; just supply! You're still enthusiastic and fresh: bottle it!

Best of luck and keep going.
  #13  
Old 06.10.2014, 16:34
Worrelpa's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Nyon
Posts: 339
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 98 Times in 77 Posts
Worrelpa is considered knowledgeableWorrelpa is considered knowledgeableWorrelpa is considered knowledgeable
Re: Long term Unemployment

I'm at 6 months unemployed and totally understand where you are at.

For me it is slightly different.

I have years of experience in my profession IT. Yet finding work in my area down in the Swiss French region appears to be difficult. Since I last had to find a job the local market has changed significantly. Companies are requiring fluent French in many ads as well as English. Also jobs in which I have the required skill set are advertised as junior positions or are so detailed specific that they are either jobs for which companies have already hired specific people or are way out of my current skills set.

So I am back to French lessons and updating my certifications. As you say this takes time to do. Prioritising each is a pain. I cannot get a job without the required IT skills and the language. At least if I get the language other doors will open up.

The unemployment office guidelines mean you should look for work within your chooses field which can also be limiting.

Keep practicing the German. Have you checked you tube for free lessons? Duolingo if you have a smartphone or tablet device is also very good and free app.

Keep your head up and try to stay positive.
The following 2 users would like to thank Worrelpa for this useful post:
  #14  
Old 07.01.2015, 02:55
soon2go's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 68
Groaned at 10 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 20 Times in 14 Posts
soon2go has become a little unpopularsoon2go has become a little unpopular
Re: Long term Unemployment

UPDATE: Still here, still unemployed after 2 years and 500+ applications.

My limit has been reached, Switzerland is pretty and all but scenery does not pay the bills.
  #15  
Old 07.01.2015, 03:47
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Zurich
Posts: 10
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Helianthus has earned some respectHelianthus has earned some respect
Re: Long term Unemployment

I'm sorry to read about your situation.
Have you asked your RAV counselor about enrolling you in the temporary BNF work?
Check out www.bnf.ch
I hope it helps. Best of luck!
  #16  
Old 07.01.2015, 09:21
Pachyderm's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Zurich
Posts: 794
Groaned at 49 Times in 31 Posts
Thanked 1,765 Times in 601 Posts
Pachyderm has a reputation beyond reputePachyderm has a reputation beyond reputePachyderm has a reputation beyond reputePachyderm has a reputation beyond reputePachyderm has a reputation beyond reputePachyderm has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Long term Unemployment

Quote:
View Post
UPDATE: Still here, still unemployed after 2 years and 500+ applications.

My limit has been reached, Switzerland is pretty and all but scenery does not pay the bills.
I'm sympathetic. Nearly all of us here will have experienced terms of unemployment longer than we wanted.

But I get puzzled when I hear people say things like 500+ unsuccessful applications. Once you get to 50 or 100 unsuccessful, especially if you rarely get interviews or even acknowledgments of the application, then you must be saying to yourself: 'My strategy isn't working' and asking yourself why not? What are you doing wrong?

Sorry if that sounds harsh. When I say "doing wrong" I just mean that you need to take (or ask someone else to take) a very careful look at your applications and how you are coming across. You may simply be applying for jobs that you're not qualified for, or your resumé / cover letter may be too uninteresting to stand out from the others. Get a professional to help you on this. (I have a personal contact in the UK who works in this area and who helped me a lot. Can't recall the cost but it was between 50 and 70 UKP or so to review my CV and offer a list of constructive suggestions. PM me if you want her details.)

OTOH, if you've identified that a lack of German is holding you back then this is an obvious way of increasing your chances. Work out how you can have conversation exchange with a German speaker wishing to improve their English -- preferably daily or very regularly. This is a no-brainer.

Good luck.
The following 3 users would like to thank Pachyderm for this useful post:
  #17  
Old 07.01.2015, 11:11
soon2go's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 68
Groaned at 10 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 20 Times in 14 Posts
soon2go has become a little unpopularsoon2go has become a little unpopular
Re: Long term Unemployment

Quote:
View Post
I'm sympathetic. Nearly all of us here will have experienced terms of unemployment longer than we wanted.

But I get puzzled when I hear people say things like 500+ unsuccessful applications. Once you get to 50 or 100 unsuccessful, especially if you rarely get interviews or even acknowledgments of the application, then you must be saying to yourself: 'My strategy isn't working' and asking yourself why not? What are you doing wrong?

Sorry if that sounds harsh. When I say "doing wrong" I just mean that you need to take (or ask someone else to take) a very careful look at your applications and how you are coming across. You may simply be applying for jobs that you're not qualified for, or your resumé / cover letter may be too uninteresting to stand out from the others. Get a professional to help you on this. (I have a personal contact in the UK who works in this area and who helped me a lot. Can't recall the cost but it was between 50 and 70 UKP or so to review my CV and offer a list of constructive suggestions. PM me if you want her details.)

OTOH, if you've identified that a lack of German is holding you back then this is an obvious way of increasing your chances. Work out how you can have conversation exchange with a German speaker wishing to improve their English -- preferably daily or very regularly. This is a no-brainer.

Good luck.
German is a certainly a block for me for in the German speaking regions (and I have been working to overcome this and open more job possibilities) but my French is good and I have had no interest from companies in French-speaking areas.

I have changed my approach many times, sought professional advice, spent 8 months volunteering (no pay!), reworked my image, but no luck.

Many EU/Swiss posters here can never understand how hard it is for non-EU to find work here....discrimination is the norm for us, even with a permit there is a clear Swiss/EU first preference for jobs. I want to work and I want to integrate here but life is short and I can't wait years until I am eligible for citizenship just so I have a chance to be hired :P
This user would like to thank soon2go for this useful post:
  #18  
Old 07.01.2015, 11:39
roegner's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Zurich
Posts: 3,038
Groaned at 87 Times in 65 Posts
Thanked 3,065 Times in 1,570 Posts
roegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Long term Unemployment

Quote:
View Post
Many EU/Swiss posters here can never understand how hard it is for non-EU to find work here....discrimination is the norm for us, even with a permit there is a clear Swiss/EU first preference for jobs. I want to work and I want to integrate here but life is short and I can't wait years until I am eligible for citizenship just so I have a chance to be hired :P
I wouldn´t call that discrimination? It is very clear from the start that this is the way it is in Switzerland.
This user would like to thank roegner for this useful post:
  #19  
Old 07.01.2015, 11:51
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Neuchatel
Posts: 19,355
Groaned at 368 Times in 275 Posts
Thanked 22,366 Times in 10,062 Posts
Odile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Long term Unemployment

Quote:
View Post
OTOH, if you've identified that a lack of German is holding you back then this is an obvious way of increasing your chances. Work out how you can have conversation exchange with a German speaker wishing to improve their English -- preferably daily or very regularly. This is a no-brainer.

Good luck.

This, really. I am so sorry you have not found a job, but you've had 2 years of 'free' time to learn German- so really you should have a good level by now. Not always easy to find time for a young parent with kids, or someone who works full time, to learn a language- but when un-employed it should be quite easy and seen as a huge priority in a country like Switzerland, where it truly can be THE key. Good Luck.

Last edited by 22 yards; 07.01.2015 at 11:58. Reason: Fixed quote formatting
This user would like to thank Odile for this useful post:
  #20  
Old 07.01.2015, 11:56
soon2go's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 68
Groaned at 10 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 20 Times in 14 Posts
soon2go has become a little unpopularsoon2go has become a little unpopular
Re: Long term Unemployment

Quote:
View Post
I wouldn´t call that discrimination? It is very clear from the start that this is the way it is in Switzerland.
Just because things are clearly this way does not mean it is not discrimination. I suggest you look up the definition of the word before you comment further.
This user groans at soon2go for this post:
Closed Thread




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
How to differentiate between a short-term & long-term work permit monkmad Permits/visas/government 8 02.09.2014 09:00
Short term accomodation (=long term hotel ?) in Zürich varioplus Housing in general 4 04.09.2010 12:58
B Permit Form - different for Long term B and Short term B ? samofsydney Permits/visas/government 3 14.02.2010 15:40
Long term rent, short term lease mahmed Transportation/driving 3 12.09.2009 17:43
Early change of short-term B to long-term B Alirezakarimi Permits/visas/government 12 14.01.2008 01:00


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 23:51.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0