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  #81  
Old 28.11.2014, 17:09
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Re: Expected to continue working after being fired

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Of course there is.

In fact, it's for the same amount of time that one would have to give if they were to quit.

Tom
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Perhaps it's you that needs to have another read, petal. The OP has been fired for no other reason than the employer doesn't like the cut of his jib (or so he says) and is being made to work his notice period.

Several posters have warned of the terrifying prospect of the OP being forced to see out his notice even if he gets signed off sick during the notice period, once he has been cleared to work again.
I'm afraid not guys. Fired is fired. Fired is instantly dismissed, do not pass go, do not collect $200.

The OP has been told he will be released at the end of his notice period, he has not been fired.

If you genuinely think he has been fired, get him to go speak to the RAV and say he wants money immediately, because he has been fired...

"Err, but you are still working sir, you have not been fired, have you? You cannot claim any money from us until your contract comes to an end and you are unemployed. Had you actually been fired, we could have helped you instantly".

Do we see?
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  #82  
Old 28.11.2014, 17:13
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Re: Expected to continue working after being fired

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The OP has been told he will be released at the end of his notice period, he has not been fired.
If the employer has given notice, he has been fired.

It the employee has given notice, he has quit.

Do we see?

Tom
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  #83  
Old 28.11.2014, 17:19
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Re: Expected to continue working after being fired

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If the employer has given notice, he has been fired.

It the employee has given notice, he has quit.

Do we see?

Tom
Come on Tom, have you started on the Chianto Classico slightly earlier than usual?

Fired is not the same as being given notice. The situation you describe is an employer giving notice, maybe because they need to make cuts, or maybe they don't feel the employee fits.

The employee might be fired due to gross misconduct for example, he would be given no notice period and would be marched out the door.

Big difference.
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  #84  
Old 28.11.2014, 17:19
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Re: Expected to continue working after being fired

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If the employer has given notice, he has been fired.

It the employee has given notice, he has quit.

Do we see?

Tom
But you can be fired with immediate effect ( for a major error) or you can be fired with notice. ( usually called laid of or made redundant in England).

People here seem to be confusing the two.

The OP has been fired with notice because he doesn't fit in to the company and has not done anything really wrong that could lead to immediate dismissal so he has to abide by the law and serve his notice period end of.
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  #85  
Old 28.11.2014, 17:25
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Re: Expected to continue working after being fired

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To protect employees? Or to prevent them becoming a burden on the state? That's what I love about Switzerland, many things are sold to us as being for our benefit, but the fact of the matter is that the Swiss are terrified of having to look after and pay for the public.
Well Mr. Glass-half-empty. "The state" is not an abstract construct and I don't care whether such rules exist to indeed protect the employee or whether their sole purpose is to not burden the state. I am part of said state, I pay taxes, my taxes pay the unemployed (amongst many other things). I might lose my job at some point in time too and be glad to be covered financially for a while etc. So whatever is being done to reduce the number of those who are forced (some more, some less) to make use of the social system is fine by me. Even if it's something simple as a notice period of a few weeks.
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  #86  
Old 28.11.2014, 17:29
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Re: Expected to continue working after being fired

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Fired is not the same as being given notice.
Yes it is, at least in the US.

Tom
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  #87  
Old 28.11.2014, 17:34
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Re: Expected to continue working after being fired

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Yes it is, at least in the US.

Tom
Well, I'm a Brit who's been living in Switzerland for 8 years. You're a US expat who has severed almost all ties with the country and has been here almost since the birth of the confederation...

So why are you talking to me about US stuff?
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  #88  
Old 28.11.2014, 17:43
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Re: Expected to continue working after being fired

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You can read here (in all 3 languages).
http://www.seco.admin.ch/themen/0038...prungmarke1_44

"Si l'empêchement de travailler survient après la résiliation du contrat, le délai de résiliation est suspendu. Il continue à courir après que le travailleur a recouvré sa capacité de travail ou au terme du délai de protection maximal."

This one and the next paragraph give some explanations on a not so clearly written article of the Code du Travail
I refer you to post No. 49 in this thread. Please read it and give supporting evidence to the contrary. I am indeed very interested.
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  #89  
Old 28.11.2014, 17:48
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Re: Expected to continue working after being fired

This is just aligning the meaning of words.

For most people, "I've been fired" = I received a letter from my employer telling me that, for x reason, they terminate my work contract, and that my last day will be in 1/2/3/4/6 month or immediately.

"Sweetheart, bad news: my boss told me today that I got fired. Last day is in 2 month".

Fired doesn't mean negligence or making the employee leave without notice. At least the common use and understanding of it.

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Come on Tom, have you started on the Chianto Classico slightly earlier than usual?

Fired is not the same as being given notice. The situation you describe is an employer giving notice, maybe because they need to make cuts, or maybe they don't feel the employee fits.

The employee might be fired due to gross misconduct for example, he would be given no notice period and would be marched out the door.

Big difference.
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  #90  
Old 28.11.2014, 18:03
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Re: Expected to continue working after being fired

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"Sweetheart, bad news: my boss told me today that I got fired".
Sweetheart: "That's awful, what did you do? We have no savings, how will we cope?"

Man: "Err, I didn't do anything, there's just a reshuffle. I'll only be leaving in 2 months."

Sweetheart: "Oh, you were given notice with two months guaranteed pay. You weren't fired silly, you were released, we have plenty of time to get you a few interviews."

Man: "Oh yeah, you're right, lol. I was released, not sacked, d'oh. It's inaccuracies like these that got meant they renewed Jeff's contract, and not mine."

Sweetheart: "Oh, what are you like!?"
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  #91  
Old 28.11.2014, 18:11
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Re: Expected to continue working after being fired

As said, it's aligning the meaning of words.
Could be that, technically and by the book, your understanding is indeed the right one. Though Tom, from the US, has a different opinion

Colloquially, people use "I got fired", to express this idea.
You can get a glimpse of that by using the search bar with "give notice" or with "fired" and check the difference in number of posts. That's just the way people tick.

Again, you might be technically right

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Sweetheart: "That's awful, what did you do? We have no savings, how will we cope?"

Man: "Err, I didn't do anything, there's just a reshuffle. I'll only be leaving in 2 months."

Sweetheart: "Oh, you were given notice with two months guaranteed pay. You weren't fired silly, you were released, we have plenty of time to get you a few interviews."

Man: "Oh yeah, you're right, lol. I was released, not sacked, d'oh. It's inaccuracies like these that got meant they renewed Jeff's contract, and not mine."

Sweetheart: "Oh, what are you like!?"
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  #92  
Old 28.11.2014, 19:58
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Re: Expected to continue working after being fired

Before going too much further one really needs to know what the job actually was.

If it was, for instance, commodity trading, then yes, it would be very exceptional to be asked to work your notice period.

If however, it was something like a taxi driver, a manual worker, it is more than normal.

Until we know what the OP really did, difficult to go too much further i think.
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  #93  
Old 28.11.2014, 20:08
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Re: Expected to continue working after being fired

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Only problem is the notice period will never end, if your ill it does not count........
This is just simply wrong. Period.

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You can read here (in all 3 languages).
http://www.seco.admin.ch/themen/0038...prungmarke1_44

"Si l'empêchement de travailler survient après la résiliation du contrat, le délai de résiliation est suspendu. Il continue à courir après que le travailleur a recouvré sa capacité de travail ou au terme du délai de protection maximal."

This one and the next paragraph give some explanations on a not so clearly written article of the Code du Travail
Well, I don't know how good your French is, but probably you should read on. LOL

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You can read here (in all 3 languages).
http://www.seco.admin.ch/themen/0038...prungmarke1_44
In theory, one could get fired, immediately get signed off sick for a year and then return to full fitness and still have work their notice.
Given your work is so erronous and superficial as your span of attention is in this subject, you would never get a job, at least not from me - in fact for obvious rational reasons!

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To protect employees? Or to prevent them becoming a burden on the state? That's what I love about Switzerland, many things are sold to us as being for our benefit, but the fact of the matter is that the Swiss are terrified of having to look after and pay for the public.

It's the same story with the Pillar 3a. Why do you think everyone (even school kids) get all the benefits rammed down their throats for saving in their third pillar? Yet as soon as you leave the country, you're allowed to take it with you?

At least it teaches people to take accountability for themselves, something the rest of Europe at least could learn from.
Hardly ever read a greater stupidness.

edit -- PS: Don't make you an even greater fool while asking for evidence!
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  #94  
Old 28.11.2014, 20:19
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Re: Expected to continue working after being fired

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This is just simply wrong. Period.

Hardly ever read a greater stupidness.

edit -- PS: Don't make you an even greater fool while asking for evidence!
Alright then, Einstein, rather than just saying people are wrong and stupid, why not give an example of how or why? Or is that perhaps beyond you?
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  #95  
Old 28.11.2014, 20:28
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Re: Expected to continue working after being fired

If I was the OP I would do the following:

  • Refuse to work from home, stating lack of home office.Immediately begin job search.
  • Go to the RAV armed with all your documentation (work contract, written notice of termination, etc) and become informed about your obligations. You will need to keep your employer on side as he/she will have to provide certain documents to RAV, otherwise you wont get paid unemployment money.
  • Your employer is also obliged to facilitate you every reasonable chance to look for new employment in your work time.You will have to document these efforts during your termination period, otherwise you won't get paid unemployment money.
  • Make sure you are able to deal with the RAV in the local language..you may need an interpreter.
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Old 28.11.2014, 21:01
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Re: Expected to continue working after being fired

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Well, I don't know how good your French is, but probably you should read on. LOL
There seems to be a lot of things you dont know or even worst, assume.

Just for the record: in french, we dont use LOL. We use MDR.

For the rest, i'll let you divagate alone, enjoy your evident greatness
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Old 28.11.2014, 21:11
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Re: Expected to continue working after being fired

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Alright then, Einstein, rather than just saying people are wrong and stupid, why not give an example of how or why? Or is that perhaps beyond you?
Pardon-me!? Are you really serious? You are asking me to teach you like a primary school pupil? Please don't.


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You can read here (in all 3 languages).
http://www.seco.admin.ch/themen/0038...prungmarke1_44

"Si l'empêchement de travailler survient après la résiliation du contrat, le délai de résiliation est suspendu. Il continue à courir après que le travailleur a recouvré sa capacité de travail ou au terme du délai de protection maximal."

This one and the next paragraph give some explanations on a not so clearly written article of the Code du Travail
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This rule is clearly loaded in favour of the the employee, and I suspect it was made to try and prevent sick workers becoming a problem for the state. What employer in their right mind would want to keep paying someone who's off with long term sickness, especially having just fired them? In theory, one could get fired, immediately get signed off sick for a year and then return to full fitness and still have work their notice.
Wrong!


So my dear little boy, what's the maximal delay?

Or do you indeed need a multiple choice answer?


Last edited by Sublime; 28.11.2014 at 21:21.
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  #98  
Old 28.11.2014, 21:46
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Re: Expected to continue working after being fired

IMHO, to be in peace with oneself the best one can do is to:
- complete your remaining days of work as suggested to avoid further conflict and to get your salary intact,
- in parallel look for the job and keep calm because eventually something is going to pan out,
- do not panic and don't make environment around you feel like you are desperate or depressed because it is important to stay cool and assertive at the next interview, if the interviewer feels tension he might sense your desperation,
- move on, enjoy your life and treat yourself to something nice before the next career move (treat yourself to luxurious holidays or dinner in the nice restaurant),
- else anything nice you can think of, get laid regularly and be happy

Good luck bud!
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  #99  
Old 29.11.2014, 00:00
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Re: Expected to continue working after being fired

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Pardon-me!? Are you really serious? You are asking me to teach you like a primary school pupil? Please don't.




Wrong!


So my dear little boy, what's the maximal delay?

Or do you indeed need a multiple choice answer?

Twat.
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  #100  
Old 29.11.2014, 02:06
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Re: Expected to continue working after being fired

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If the employer has given notice, he has been fired.
Not at all! One could say he was 'let go', 'made redundant' or may be terminated. But not fired - that would mean no notice, no compensation etc..
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