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Old 07.02.2015, 02:22
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Software Engineer 7+ years xp

Hi, first of all i must precise that i read the stickers, used the salary calculators, googled, even asked locals and the conclusion is that the offer i got is too low. Nonetheless i'm going to ask you!

I'm a Software Engineer with 7+ years of experience and i have been offered 75k CHF for a job in Ticino (Bedano). Consider that for the same role in Dublin i'm currently paid 70k EUR.

They are offering almost the same salary i make in Dublin at the Swiss cost of living... According to the online calculators i should aim at 90k CHF, i tried several and they all suggest i should be getting at least 10k CHF more.
I know two people in Switzerland, so i asked them too. One told me 75k is an excellent salary, the second told me that anything below 100k CHF and i'm going to barely survive.

Consider that i'm married with a child. We have quite a frugal lifestyle but we'd like to save some money at the end of the month (who doesn't), and on a 75k CHF salary it looks like we would save around 250-300 CHF per month which is basically nothing.

After having read this forum i tend to believe to my second acquaintance (that is, 75k is not enough for a family). I also understand that as a foreigner i'm going to be underpaid, but here my concern is whether i can provide for my family on that salary or not.

Thanks
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Old 07.02.2015, 08:56
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Re: Software Engineer 7+ years xp

Ticino, 7 years experience... you don't mention which technology - CHF75K could be ok. A change from €70K Ireland to CHF75K Switzerland would though probably entail a drop in your standard of living. You need to check though your net pay, not gross - so after tax and perhaps health insurance.

An offer is an offer. You can always make a counter offer. Start negotiating. The weather is usually better in Ticino than Ireland.
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Old 07.02.2015, 09:33
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Re: Software Engineer 7+ years xp

I don't know pricing level in Ticino though... 75K for a family of 3 if I understand correctly is definitely doable, whether it will be comfortable or not will depend where exactly in Ticino will you be based...

ps. I moved to ZH area from Dublin as well, and even here weather is much better, in Ticino it's much better than here So all in all it goes down what are you expectations in life
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Old 07.02.2015, 10:40
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Re: Software Engineer 7+ years xp

7 years of experience as a software engineer, I assume with a degree, 75K is a lot below the average.

In Dublin you are earning better.
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Old 07.02.2015, 10:51
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Re: Software Engineer 7+ years xp

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I don't know pricing level in Ticino though...
About the same as Zurich, unless one lives really out in the sticks, say an hour from Lugano.

75k is OK as a single person here, but not for a family.

Living in Cevio it could work, but that's a long commute to Bedano.

Living in Stabio would perhaps work, rents are cheaper (but not as cheap as Cevio), and you can do your shopping in Italy.

In Lugano area, 100k for a family of three was doable 25 years ago, not so easy nowadays.

Tom
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Old 07.02.2015, 11:41
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Re: Software Engineer 7+ years xp

To be honest with current CHF - EUR situation I think we will see salaries go down... in fact I see it already...
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Old 07.02.2015, 11:43
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Re: Software Engineer 7+ years xp

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7 years of experience as a software engineer, I assume with a degree, 75K is a lot below the average.

In Dublin you are earning better.
Agreed... Ticino is on average lower paid with a lower cost of living that Zürich, but 75k is still low for a family guy in your field with that level of experience.

I would be asking for 85-90k as a minimum, or not moving from Dublin. From the sounds of it they offered you the job, so clearly identified a need to have you. Do some bargaining.

Last edited by Richdog; 07.02.2015 at 11:58.
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Old 07.02.2015, 11:52
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Re: Software Engineer 7+ years xp

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Agreed... Ticino is on average lower paid with a lower cost of living that Zürich, but 75k is still low for a family guy in your field with that level of experience.

I would be asking for 85-90k, or not moving from Dublin. From the sounds of it they offered you the job, so clearly identified a need to have you. Do some bargaining.
I agree it's too low. Assuming it's proper Sw dev and you have 7 yrs xp then nearer 100 more like it.
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Old 07.02.2015, 12:38
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Re: Software Engineer 7+ years xp

Thanks for the replies, i see i was right in my conclusions.

I am a Java developer (i know other languages like Groovy, Scala and Javascript), primarily i worked in the financial sector (home banking, credit card security, collateral management). Of couse i have a degree (not a master degree though) and a few certifications. I speak English, Italian and French (not sure it matters, i should have studied German in hindsight).

I simulated a "month in Ticino" (i considered only areas within 12km from Bedano) checking prices online and, as i mentioned in a previous post, not much is left for savings (mainly because what in Ireland is optional in Switzerland is compulsory). Of course that simulation didn't take in account eventual Tax Credits and deductions, Welfare Benefits (like a child benefit), the fact that my wife may find a job at some stage, etc...
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Old 07.02.2015, 12:49
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Re: Software Engineer 7+ years xp

75k is what one gets as a postgraduate (although in Basel), with 5+ years experience less than yours.
I'd say it is too low of an offer, even though I am not aware of the precise life expense differences in BS vs Ticino.
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Old 07.02.2015, 13:08
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Re: Software Engineer 7+ years xp

Yes it's below average. Needless to say I assume you have calculated your taxes. So take this also into consideration.
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Old 07.02.2015, 14:55
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Re: Software Engineer 7+ years xp

i'll try to renegotiate 85k CHF and see how it goes.
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Old 07.02.2015, 15:18
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Re: Software Engineer 7+ years xp

You should be negotiating for 90k.
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Old 07.02.2015, 15:53
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Re: Software Engineer 7+ years xp

i'll try but i have a feeling i'm not going to get the job anymore we are too late in the process
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Old 07.02.2015, 17:15
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Re: Software Engineer 7+ years xp

What I have heard from friends in here in Zurich for a "normal" company:

70k is entry level for a bachelor's degree in CS

90k-110k is entry level for a master's degree in CS

This is not true for some high-end companies (mainly US ones) which may pay way more than this. E.g. one friend got 160k M.Sc. entry-level at Google.

Of course Ticino may be 10k-20k below Zurich but you get the idea.
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Old 07.02.2015, 17:56
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Re: Software Engineer 7+ years xp

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i'll try but i have a feeling i'm not going to get the job anymore we are too late in the process
Ah, so the "offered 75K" was a "would you like to be put forward for a job that offers 75K".
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Old 07.02.2015, 17:56
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Re: Software Engineer 7+ years xp

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What I have heard from friends in here in Zurich for a "normal" company:

70k is entry level for a bachelor's degree in CS

90k-110k is entry level for a master's degree in CS

This is not true for some high-end companies (mainly US ones) which may pay way more than this. E.g. one friend got 160k M.Sc. entry-level at Google.

Of course Ticino may be 10k-20k below Zurich but you get the idea.
Cut 30% from all the salaries you quoted and you'll be closer to the real world. Degrees without experience will not even get you as far as 60k...you realize Msc Degrees these days is the same as High Scholl diplomas 40 years ago, almost everyone has one.
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Old 07.02.2015, 18:00
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Re: Software Engineer 7+ years xp

When I moved to Ticino as a hardware/software engineer with 8 years experience, I was earning 100k/annum.

And this was in 1990.

Tom
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Old 07.02.2015, 18:04
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Re: Software Engineer 7+ years xp

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Cut 30% from all the salaries you quoted and you'll be closer to the real world. Degrees without experience will not even get you as far as 60k...you realize Msc Degrees these days is the same as High Scholl diplomas 40 years ago, almost everyone has one.
My friends and me are ETH people, either we are paid more or we was just lucky when getting our jobs. But seriously, 60k is what you get as an intern, you should get significantly more as full-time.
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Old 07.02.2015, 18:22
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Re: Software Engineer 7+ years xp

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When I moved to Ticino as a hardware/software engineer with 8 years experience, I was earning 100k/annum.

And this was in 1990.

Tom
I don't know why you groaned but the guy above said you can get 110k with just a Msc and no mention of experience. Unless you believe it yourself not sure what the groan is for.

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My friends and me are ETH people, either we are paid more or we was just lucky when getting our jobs. But seriously, 60k is what you get as an intern, you should get significantly more as full-time.
A software engineer with no experience is just a student. You will be lucky to get something closer to 70k but 60k should be the norm as you are basically the same as an intern.

With 5 years experience you can get close to 100k and for 5-10 years at 120k-130k.

And this is banking I am talking about. ETH might give you a premium yes but do you seriously believe if you have a Msc from ETH and no experience you can get 110k?
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