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Old 10.02.2015, 01:04
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Where are all the English speaking IT jobs??

I am a Software Engineer with over 10 years experience. I have been looking for a job in Zurich for the past month, sending CVs remotely from Ireland. I must say how very surprised I am at how few English speaking IT roles there are in Zurich! Going through all the big jobs sites, I always find many good quality roles that are very suitable for my skills and experience, except I would estimate that 80%-90% of them require German which I don't have. OK I know German is the daily language of communication in Zurich, but I'm talking about IT software development roles, which rarely require intensive communication with outside customers or even other internal departments such as sales, finance etc. So this is quite surprising to me as I would have thought more companies would try to attract the best talent from all over Europe, especially in an industry which we always hear is so competitive and experiences shortage of skilled labour. In fairness, I didn't expect the percentage of English only speaking jobs to be as high as in Scandenavia or Netherlands where English skills are higher, but still 10%-20% is quite low for the IT industry and for a country which is known to have so many immigrants and an international city such as Zurich.

This is not a complaint by any means. It is what it is and obviously Switzerland's economy is doing quite well for itself as it is. It's just an observation on my part but also wondering if I am missing something or do people also have the same impression?

Also, if a role description says German is required, is that usually a hard requirement or should I also try applying for these anyway?
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Old 10.02.2015, 01:09
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Re: Where are all the English speaking IT jobs??

Looking for a month, in the current market here in Switzerland, is almost like saying "I've just had a quick peek and ...".

Also, many of those IT jobs won't actually require much German but as many companies here have recently downsized their (Swiss-based) IT departments there are people kicking around looking for work, so employers can make what was a "nice to have" into a "must have" knowing that they'll probably still find people.

There's really no harm in you applying to these jobs, just write a simple email, attach your CV, and put at the bottom something like "currently don't speak German but willing to learn".
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Old 10.02.2015, 01:18
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Re: Where are all the English speaking IT jobs??

what's the reason for the recent downsizing of IT departments? Is it primarily due to the fluctuations in the swiss franc value/unpegging from EUR?
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Old 10.02.2015, 01:21
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Re: Where are all the English speaking IT jobs??

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what's the reason for the recent downsizing of IT departments? Is it primarily due to the fluctuations in the swiss franc value/unpegging from EUR?
No, that fluctuation only happened a couple of weeks ago.
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Old 10.02.2015, 02:48
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Re: Where are all the English speaking IT jobs??

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...OK I know German is the daily language of communication in Zurich, but I'm talking about IT software development roles, which rarely require intensive communication with outside customers or even other internal departments such as sales, finance etc.
...
In fairness, I didn't expect the percentage of English only speaking jobs to be as high as in Scandenavia or Netherlands where English skills are higher, but still 10%-20% is quite low for the IT industry and for a country which is known to have so many immigrants and an international city such as Zurich.

Hello tambor
I like your enquiry, trying to understand. And also your attitude as in:
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This is not a complaint by any means.


So this, put gently (I hope) is my attempt at explaining how I think it works. I sense a degree of resentment amongst Swiss people, towards that certain sub-set of the English-speaking immigrants which assumes that just because English is an internationally used language (and the language of the technical or trading sectors, etc.) the Swiss locals are obliged to speak English to them, too.


This has levels, of course, since many of the people living here are not Swiss, but have also immigrated. They can function, in everyday contexts, mainly because they have learnt German (or French, or Italian, depending on the region). My friends and neighbours from Turkey, Sri Lanka and the former Yugoslavia can communicate with one another, with the Swiss landlady and with the Swiss government clerks, because they speak German. The Chinese doctor and the US American dental hygienist deal with their patients in German.


Anyone who does not learn the local language stays in the expat-English-speaking-only-bubble, some even for years and years, and thereby remains forever an outsider from Swiss life. (To be sure, there are many who do just that, and some of those are IT specialists, so perhaps one of them will reply to tell you how he/she found a post.)


Some employers would rather not risk offending their Swiss employees by requiring of them to speak English to the IT guy (or anyone else). Many large companies are moving away from the formal form of address ("Sie") to the informal ("Du"), so as to promote interaction and facilitate conversations amongst people of different ranks and departments, e.g. in the lunch-queue in the canteen.


Finally, it could be (though this is conjecture on my part) that the sense of separateness you describe, between the IT staff working away in a back-office with no contact to the clients or the finance department, may be less marked in Switzerland than in your home country. Several scenes come to mind where the developer or analyst was called right into meetings with the senior decision-makers, and it was not an absolute requirement, but definitely much appreciated if everyone present (no matter their mother tongue) could participate in German.


Therefore, I think Adrianlondon's advice is very good, to state on your applications that you are willing to learn German, as long as, in fact, that is the truth... which I'd hope. And get started learning right away, so that if you get an interview, you can already greet any potential employer... who will then accommodate you by switching to English.
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Old 10.02.2015, 07:01
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Re: Where are all the English speaking IT jobs??

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Where are all the English speaking IT jobs??


In one of the Five Eyes countries!
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Old 10.02.2015, 08:50
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Re: Where are all the English speaking IT jobs??

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I'm talking about IT software development roles, which rarely require intensive communication with outside customers or even other internal departments such as sales, finance etc.
Given that you are looking at/for roles which do not require any local interaction, why would you find these roles in a country, and in a city, with such unit cost of employment?

Wouldn't those roles be rather located in a region of the world where the unit cost of service is lower?

Provocatively speaking - why should I pay someone to enjoy the scenery of the Alps from an office next to Lake Zurich if I can dump that English language requirements document onto some warm body's desk in India, Romania, Poland, Ireland, ...

Isn't (agile) IT software development all about being close to the value chain, all about communication, about translation from one (business) domain into another (IT) domain?

FWIW, for a software development role - any of them -, I would simply assume that any suitable candidate has sufficient command of written and oral English, out of the box. It just goes without saying. So much for "English speaking IT jobs"

PS: Google is an interesting case. They recently announced a major expansion of their engineering center in Zurich. Without insider knowledge about their thinking, I can only surmise that the deciding factors were the local university, excellent infrastructure, and a very stable political environment to attract Top Talent, to act in a large swarm. For Google, the high wages paid in Switzerland in general are probably not decisive - they most likely pay a lot, anyway, so that the Zurich add-on is a drop in the bucket.
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Old 10.02.2015, 09:13
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Re: Where are all the English speaking IT jobs??

Having worked in Zurich several times, this is how it goes.

In Switzerland, if there is a Swiss person available they should employ them first, then EU, extended EU then the rest of the world.

HR rings agents or submits job through portal, with German required.

Agent tells HR we have a few CV with that spec. First round of interviews.

Or

Agents tell HR we don't have anyone with that spec, we will have to look further, HR says ok German is a nice to have.

So it depends on the skill set required for the role.
The Swiss like to import experts. So if you are an expert in a new area, and would like to come to Switzerland for a few years on a high paid job, ok. But if you have a standard skill set and don't speak German it will be difficult.

Remember you will need 5K cash to cover set-up costs, and they can fire you at any time. There is no un-employment pay until you have been working for more than a year.
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Old 10.02.2015, 09:15
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Re: Where are all the English speaking IT jobs??

10, 15, 20 years ago it was easy to find an IT job in Switzerland, with no need for local language - need far outstripped the local labor market. But those days are long gone.

In some companies today - especially large MNCs - IT jobs that are not critically tied to Switzerland have been moved to a lower cost location. This has been going on for years now, many expats who were recruited to Switzerland because of their IT skills are now jobless or soon to be. Bottom line - much of IT is simply too expensive these days, a Swiss salary cannot be justified.

(IT salaries are also falling in Switzerland - while still better than in other countries, the numbers bandied about in posts more than 6 months to a year old should be taken with a grain of salt.)

Much of this happened well before the removal of the peg - the Euro/CHF crisis is a handy excuse for the 2015 firings that were already planned, though.
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Old 10.02.2015, 09:26
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Re: Where are all the English speaking IT jobs??

What meloncollie said. My firm has gone from 20 local IS staff to 6. I expect 0 - 2 in 2 years time. Developers would never be hired locally. Only those who manage key projects and vendors remain. Everything is being outsourced. There are still jobs around but its all around project management, relationship management, high end BA work.
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Old 10.02.2015, 09:46
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Re: Where are all the English speaking IT jobs??

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Where are all the English speaking IT jobs??
In India mostly, these days. You're 10 years too late for the Swiss gravy boat.

There are jobs, but they're few and far between. And if by "software engineer", you mean code monkey, then they're even harder to come by onshore. If you're something a bit specialised, especially if you're working with people (which is where the communication comes in), then your chances are higher. If you are working in isolation, then the corporate view is that there's no need to pay you a Swiss salary when you can work in isolation somewhere else at a fraction of the price.
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Old 10.02.2015, 09:49
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Re: Where are all the English speaking IT jobs??

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Wouldn't those roles be rather located in a region of the world where the unit cost of service is lower?

Provocatively speaking - why should I pay someone to enjoy the scenery of the Alps from an office next to Lake Zurich if I can dump that English language requirements document onto some warm body's desk in India, Romania, Poland, Ireland, ...

Isn't (agile) IT software development all about being close to the value chain, all about communication, about translation from one (business) domain into another (IT) domain?

FWIW, for a software development role - any of them -, I would simply assume that any suitable candidate has sufficient command of written and oral English, out of the box. It just goes without saying. So much for "English speaking IT jobs"
This is a well used argument for offshoring, but there are some interesting things that also should be considered. To use the example of why put a worker in an office overlooking the Alps when the role could be done from India or Romainia and so on, you have to consider where the potential employee will prefer to live with their family. Do I, as an IT worker, want to move to India or Romania or work in Switzerland. in CH thank you. So when you post the job in Romania you're work base will be the local Romanian IT force, not the ones in Switzerland.

Leading onto Google's point: as well as tax planning, I would expect one of the reasons they invest in Switzerland for their IT staff is when you have the best brightest boffins on your target list, where will they want to live ? Zurich lake, or Delhi Downtown ?

There are fewer jobs around, for certain, but premium skills are always in demand. The issue is that the mid and lower skill end of the market is now flooded and all those people will also apply for the higher tier work.
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Old 10.02.2015, 10:00
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Re: Where are all the English speaking IT jobs??

Yes its more likely that its one expat IT person managing near and offshore teams. English speaking IT professionals are expensive when I can bring in German speakers from former east Germany for much cheaper. Plus there are many English speaking IT pros in the market already with all the necessary paperwork.

Plus as has been pointed out one month searching is a pretty short time in the market here
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Old 10.02.2015, 10:22
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Re: Where are all the English speaking IT jobs??

The only thing keeping a lot of IT jobs here is banking secrecy. If that goes it'll be the last straw for a great many people from the techies to the PMs to the BAs to hosting companies, network providers.. You name it, they'd all be offshore in an instant.
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Old 10.02.2015, 10:30
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Re: Where are all the English speaking IT jobs??

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why put a worker in an office overlooking the Alps when the role could be done from India or Romainia and so on, you have to consider where the potential employee will prefer to live with their family. Do I, as an IT worker, want to move to India or Romania or work in Switzerland. in CH thank you. So when you post the job in Romania you're work base will be the local Romanian IT force, not the ones in Switzerland.
You make a good point - but the real question is: What is the problem with the local Romanian IT force? Or the Indian IT force. Or the <any country> <any role> workforce?

There is no problem, from my point of view, technically speaking. Move accounting to Egypt. Human resource administration to Hungary. Investment management analysis to Peru. Whatever.

Why not add value from one of those locations? Why not, say, have the center of excellence for widgets in Greenland and the competence center for wombats in Windhoek?

Why is it, then, that we do not see much more near-shoring (similar timezone, culturally close) or off-shoring (dissimilar timezone, culturally disconnected)? In my opinion transaction costs are a critical factor[*]. These days, much of the transaction cost is not about the actual cost of sending things, or bits and bytes, back and forth. It is about friction in communication for lack of local presence. It seems as if even today most people (have to, want to) rely on location to help reduce these costs.

Again, I am operating from the initial assumption that there is very little top talent around - different rules apply here (see Google). These days, it would seem, there is little shortage of worker bees which can be trained (not educated!) on some highly specialized job.
[*] Costs are one side of the medal - synergies are the other, more positive side. I see lost synergies from lack of locality (e.g. lack of great team spirit) as a transaction cost, though.
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Old 10.02.2015, 10:40
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Re: Where are all the English speaking IT jobs??

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You make a good point - but the real question is: What is the problem with the local Romanian IT force? Or the Indian IT force. Or the <any country> <any role> workforce?

There is no problem, from my point of view, technically speaking. Move accounting to Egypt. Human resource administration to Hungary. Investment management analysis to Peru. Whatever.
Mikers isn't saying that there's anything wrong with Romanians, Indians, etc., but that the better skilled people from those countries have more choice and will tend to gravitate away to somewhere with better pay or a better lifestyle - the brain drain.

Switzerland is seen as a desirable destination, so there is a higher concentration of highly skilled people (including Romanians, Indians, etc.) in a diminishing job market.
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Old 10.02.2015, 10:42
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Re: Where are all the English speaking IT jobs??

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The only thing keeping a lot of IT jobs here is banking secrecy. If that goes it'll be the last straw for a great many people from the techies to the PMs to the BAs to hosting companies, network providers.. You name it, they'd all be offshore in an instant.
Or they could all just be retrained and work on compliance and governance
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Old 10.02.2015, 11:33
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Re: Where are all the English speaking IT jobs??

Allow me to go slightly off-topic for a minute...

Companies that rely on constantly evolving, complex, custom software to provide services and remain competitive (eg banks and insurance) always do badly when they outsource software development.

That's not because the people to whom they outsource lack skills (although that may be part of it). It's because the company often has the attitude "I don't understand software development. I don't want to understand it. It's not our core business anyway."

With that attitude, their in-house software development will be pretty bad. Relocating the activity to some far-away place only makes it worse.

No wonder tech-led businesses (google, facebook, netflix, uber, kickstarter, etc) are so easily able to shake-up the established incumbents. And tech-led firms are already starting to move into the finance and insurance industry.

To the OP... just be patient. Keep checking the job boards. Something will come up.

If you are country/city shopping, I would suggest looking at Amsterdam. There are sooooo many permie development jobs there that they cannot fill. Fun place to live, English speaking jobs, interesting companies.
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Old 10.02.2015, 12:01
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Re: Where are all the English speaking IT jobs??

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Allow me to go slightly off-topic for a minute...

Companies that rely on constantly evolving, complex, custom software to provide services and remain competitive (eg banks and insurance) always do badly when they outsource software development.

That's not because the people to whom they outsource lack skills (although that may be part of it). It's because the company often has the attitude "I don't understand software development. I don't want to understand it. It's not our core business anyway."

With that attitude, their in-house software development will be pretty bad. Relocating the activity to some far-away place only makes it worse.

No wonder tech-led businesses (google, facebook, netflix, uber, kickstarter, etc) are so easily able to shake-up the established incumbents. And tech-led firms are already starting to move into the finance and insurance industry.

To the OP... just be patient. Keep checking the job boards. Something will come up.

If you are country/city shopping, I would suggest looking at Amsterdam. There are sooooo many permie development jobs there that they cannot fill. Fun place to live, English speaking jobs, interesting companies.

Totally agree.. over the past few years I've managed to move my role 'away' from IT into 'the business'... I'm still doing stuff that would have been considered 'IT' but large firms are evolving their staff who 'manage' an IT system into those who understand how the system fits into a business process (who increasingly sit 'in the business') and those who don't (who increasingly sit in India). This has some advantages.. but still leaves a 'translation' gap between those who want to modify an IT system and those who have to implement the changes.

As per above.. I'd give up on 'coding'... look for Analyst/Governance/Metrics/Process Improvement/Vendor Management... type roles.
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Old 10.02.2015, 12:15
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Re: Where are all the English speaking IT jobs??

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better skilled people from those countries have more choice and will tend to gravitate away to somewhere with better pay or a better lifestyle - the brain drain.
Understood. This is the Google scenario.

I am looking at the "needs to tick some boxes", "drop some buttons" scenario. No brain drain here, and no shortage of trainable hands.

I also fully subscribe to software or rather IT in general being an enabler for business, for cost cutting and value generation alike. Yet, that only works well where IT and business are integrated (and aligned) and communicate, where there is no such thing as a traditional software coding role, but a "lets support the business using IT" alliance.

I perceive the original poster to come across as a coder who wants to stare at his screen implementing a specifications document, without having to "communicate". My perception may be wrong, but it is my perception which shape(d) my responses.
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