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Old 11.02.2015, 17:36
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Working while at the RAV

I know a few residents here are expert at this, but a couple of (mostly theoretical) questions came to me while bored out of my skull in the Doctors waiting room today:

Firstly, I know you can declare that you did a days paid work and skip 1 day of RAV payment/ obligation to go on courses etc... is there any repercussion as to what you were paid??? For example, if I picked up a 1 off consultancy fee for a days work that was the equivalent of what I'd earn on the RAV for the month, are they going to refuse payment? I'd imagine so.... (obvious question is why I'd continue to take the RAV if I could do that, but if it was a one-off thing for example...)

Secondly, how long to you need to be back in work to replenish the 400 day allowance?

Finally, aren't there occasions where you get more that 400 days (father of 3 here... hoping the kids might actually prove profitable if only briefly! ;-) )

Cheers
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Old 11.02.2015, 22:21
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Re: Working while at the RAV

Yes you can work while on RAV, but you must declare this information to them. It's called gain intermédiaire in French. They have a method for calculating how much you get paid. Basically, if you earn less than what you would have got from the RAV, the RAV will pay the difference, so you don't lose any money; if you earn more that what the RAV would pay, then RAV doesn't pay you anything for that month.
I'm not sure but I think that each day you work as a consultant is one less taken off your 400 days. However, note, that besides the days, there is also an "unemployment period" of maximum 2 years (for everyone, unsure?). If you've already received a statement from the RAV this information is there. So, it depends which runs out first - your days (which is about 1.5 years - which can be extended working as a consultant for example), or your 2 year period. You can only open a new unemployment period if you've worked for 6 months in the last 12. I think any days you had left over in the unemployment period are lost, and cannot be added to the new unemployment period.
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Old 11.02.2015, 22:33
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Re: Working while at the RAV

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I know a few residents here are expert at this, but a couple of (mostly theoretical) questions came to me while bored out of my skull in the Doctors waiting room today:

Firstly, I know you can declare that you did a days paid work and skip 1 day of RAV payment/ obligation to go on courses etc... is there any repercussion as to what you were paid??? For example, if I picked up a 1 off consultancy fee for a days work that was the equivalent of what I'd earn on the RAV for the month, are they going to refuse payment? I'd imagine so.... (obvious question is why I'd continue to take the RAV if I could do that, but if it was a one-off thing for example...)

Secondly, how long to you need to be back in work to replenish the 400 day allowance?

Finally, aren't there occasions where you get more that 400 days (father of 3 here... hoping the kids might actually prove profitable if only briefly! ;-) )

Cheers
If you earn more than 70% / 80% of your RAV payout, you won't get a payout that month, however if your paid as an employee it will count as 1 month of employment even if it was only 1 day.
The calculations are as follows If you earn 1 CHF less than your insured salary 70/80% difference to original salary will be topped up, earn 1 CHF more than insured income & you get nothing.

To get 400 days benefit you need to work 18 months in the last 24 months (as an employee), just like anyone else.

Over 55 get more than 400 days, with children you get 80% benefit rather than 70%.
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Old 14.02.2015, 13:00
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Re: Working while at the RAV

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If you earn more than 70% / 80% of your RAV payout, you won't get a payout that month, however if your paid as an employee it will count as 1 month of employment even if it was only 1 day.
The calculations are as follows If you earn 1 CHF less than your insured salary 70/80% difference to original salary will be topped up, earn 1 CHF more than insured income & you get nothing.

To get 400 days benefit you need to work 18 months in the last 24 months (as an employee), just like anyone else.

Over 55 get more than 400 days, with children you get 80% benefit rather than 70%.
Hi FatManFilms,
Can one "work" directly with a client for say for a 10 or 20 working days in the month? and still stay on RAV for the next month. I speaking in terms of getting short term consulting work, where there is direct payment(from abroad) for the work done, which will exceed the amount paid by RAV for the month.

I am also thinking in terms of complications with independent work for short durations related to taxation, AVS and being with RAV.

Just confused. Is there a RAV website(in English) that lists the rules involved?

Many Thanks,
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Old 14.02.2015, 18:09
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Re: Working while at the RAV

You can be part time or occasionally self employed when on RAV they are happy when they can give you less money . There are no websites in English & many of the advisors won't understand either as they have no personal experience.

Any questions just ask
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Old 14.02.2015, 18:21
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Re: Working while at the RAV

I experienced the RAV sign on process in 2013 as one job came to an end. Within two weeks of 'signing on date' I got a full time consultancy/probation short term contract for 2 1/2 months. The RAV consultant advised me to stay signed on which involved sending in a monthly itemised work done schedule and detail attempts made to find full time work. The consultant was very understanding in terms of my expectations it would most likely evolve into a full time role... which fortunately it did.

I got a small payment for month one being difference of two weeks work vs 80% of max allowance and thereafter nothing due to sums earned. A very sensible system but it was a relief to sign off and avoid the paperwork but equally reassuring prior to that to know if it didn;t work out I was fully registered and would thus avoid the delay where the first few weeks (time varies if you have children or not) is unpaid.
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Old 14.02.2015, 18:59
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Re: Working while at the RAV

Thanks for sharing your experience. This is exactly the scenario I am looking at!

How did you deal with the social contributions(1st pillar,2nd pillar) and taxation aspect for when you had the 2.5 months work?

I would see 2 options

1. going via an agency, having to pay them a "comission" for managing the payroll etc, definitely less than when they have found you the work(assuming one finds the client on their own, as is my case)

2. self employed route(as I believe you mentioned).


Say at CHF 1000(made up figure) a day from the client, is one better off self employed or via an agency? Does one have to go through the hassle moving the 2nd pillar to the agency for the short(unknown) duration?

Thanks fatmanfilms, these are the type of questions that come to mind..
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Old 14.02.2015, 21:13
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Re: Working while at the RAV

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Thanks for sharing your experience. This is exactly the scenario I am looking at!

How did you deal with the social contributions(1st pillar,2nd pillar) and taxation aspect for when you had the 2.5 months work?

I would see 2 options

1. going via an agency, having to pay them a "comission" for managing the payroll etc, definitely less than when they have found you the work(assuming one finds the client on their own, as is my case)

2. self employed route(as I believe you mentioned).


Say at CHF 1000(made up figure) a day from the client, is one better off self employed or via an agency? Does one have to go through the hassle moving the 2nd pillar to the agency for the short(unknown) duration?

Thanks fatmanfilms, these are the type of questions that come to mind..

You can have a freelancers pension which can be separate from your original company one.

Once you have earned a bit contact the AHV people, I did 2 years after the event after declaring income on my tax return
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Old 14.02.2015, 23:39
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Re: Working while at the RAV

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Thanks for sharing your experience. This is exactly the scenario I am looking at!

How did you deal with the social contributions(1st pillar,2nd pillar) and taxation aspect for when you had the 2.5 months work?

I would see 2 options

1. going via an agency, having to pay them a "comission" for managing the payroll etc, definitely less than when they have found you the work(assuming one finds the client on their own, as is my case)

2. self employed route(as I believe you mentioned).


Say at CHF 1000(made up figure) a day from the client, is one better off self employed or via an agency? Does one have to go through the hassle moving the 2nd pillar to the agency for the short(unknown) duration?

Thanks fatmanfilms, these are the type of questions that come to mind..
It's not clear if your scenario above applies while still registered with the RAV. If you are registered with the unemployment office, you must declare this income to the unemployment office (they have a form that you complete each month). Taxes and social contributions are deducted by the unemployment office. I think the RAV is more familiar with this way of working than before.
If you de-register from the unemployment office and start working as a freelancer, you will no longer be entitled to unemployment benefits if things don't work out. Hence, it's better to stay registered with the unemployment office until you are confident you will have a steady income stream (even though it's a nightmare doing both). If you plan to work as an independent contractor then contact the AHV/AVS to register yourself.
ch.ch may have some info in English, but not a lot.
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Old 15.02.2015, 08:08
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Re: Working while at the RAV

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It's not clear if your scenario above applies while still registered with the RAV. If you are registered with the unemployment office, you must declare this income to the unemployment office (they have a form that you complete each month). Taxes and social contributions are deducted by the unemployment office. I think the RAV is more familiar with this way of working than before.
If you de-register from the unemployment office and start working as a freelancer, you will no longer be entitled to unemployment benefits if things don't work out. Hence, it's better to stay registered with the unemployment office until you are confident you will have a steady income stream (even though it's a nightmare doing both). If you plan to work as an independent contractor then contact the AHV/AVS to register yourself.
ch.ch may have some info in English, but not a lot.
The RAV does not deduct taxes or AHV on self employed earnings earnings & in the interest of accuracy the RAV does not deal with money at all..........

It's not a nightmare to deal with,I did this over a very long period of time.
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Old 16.02.2015, 20:08
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Re: Working while at the RAV

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It's not clear if your scenario above applies while still registered with the RAV. If you are registered with the unemployment office, you must declare this income to the unemployment office (they have a form that you complete each month). Taxes and social contributions are deducted by the unemployment office. I think the RAV is more familiar with this way of working than before.
If you de-register from the unemployment office and start working as a freelancer, you will no longer be entitled to unemployment benefits if things don't work out. Hence, it's better to stay registered with the unemployment office until you are confident you will have a steady income stream (even though it's a nightmare doing both). If you plan to work as an independent contractor then contact the AHV/AVS to register yourself.
ch.ch may have some info in English, but not a lot.
Hi EireAnn,
Thanks.
I did discuss a few options about independent working(with my ORP counsellor) and they all seemed to involve signing off ORP and then signing back on, not really feasible if doing short stints of consulting work. I did'nt have the information I have now(Thanks to the good people of EF :-))

It would be ideal if I can declare income as and when earned and then the "Caisse du Chomage" decides if I earned more then their threshold. I guess this is best discussed with the CCh(Caisse du Chomage) rather than the ORP, I will do that.
Thanks again.
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Old 16.02.2015, 20:12
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Re: Working while at the RAV

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The RAV does not deduct taxes or AHV on self employed earnings earnings & in the interest of accuracy the RAV does not deal with money at all..........

It's not a nightmare to deal with,I did this over a very long period of time.
Hi FatManFilms,
Were you referring to the Caisse du Chomage?

Please can you elaborate on how to handle self-employment income whilst with RAV? How much and which taxes and social contributions to pay and to whom?

Thanks.
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Old 18.02.2015, 10:49
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Re: Working while at the RAV

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Hi FatManFilms,
Were you referring to the Caisse du Chomage?

Please can you elaborate on how to handle self-employment income whilst with RAV? How much and which taxes and social contributions to pay and to whom?

Thanks.
Yes the Caisse du Chomage.

See what your earnings are each month , fill in the Chomage paperwork.

I did nothing else, then filled in my tax return, 18 months later the tax office asked me to get a certificate from the AHV office which I did & paid the AHV.
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Old 09.09.2015, 18:22
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Re: Working while at the RAV

Does anyone know if you receive Kinderzulagen (child benefit) when you are unemployed.
Looking at a small salary income when employed, so at 80% unemployment benefit (when having kids) it is not really a lot of money, especially if from that 80% one must pay contributions, and health ins etc.. working out not very much at all..
salary under 80000chf per year gross..
Anyone know how its all calculated?
Thanks
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Old 09.09.2015, 18:39
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Re: Working while at the RAV

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Does anyone know if you receive Kinderzulagen (child benefit) when you are unemployed.
Looking at a small salary income when employed, so at 80% unemployment benefit (when having kids) it is not really a lot of money, especially if from that 80% one must pay contributions, and health ins etc.. working out not very much at all..
salary under 80000chf per year gross..
Anyone know how its all calculated?
Thanks
Answer: Yes. If you are eligible for Kinderzulagen before unemployment, then the child benefits would continue to be paid to you through the ALV while unemployed.

"Kinderzulagen/Ausbildungszulagen Haben Sie Anrecht auf Zulagen gemäss dem kantonalen Gesetz über Kinderzulagen vom 16. Dezember 1982, werden Ihnen diese von der Arbeitslosenkasse ausbezahlt, sofern sie nicht anderweitig ausgerichtet werden (z.B. bei Zwischenverdienst)."


https://www.zg.ch/behoerden/volkswir...dungszulagen-1
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Old 09.09.2015, 19:13
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Re: Working while at the RAV

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Does anyone know if you receive Kinderzulagen (child benefit) when you are unemployed.
Looking at a small salary income when employed, so at 80% unemployment benefit (when having kids) it is not really a lot of money, especially if from that 80% one must pay contributions, and health ins etc.. working out not very much at all..
salary under 80000chf per year gross..
Anyone know how its all calculated?
Thanks
According to KTipp, the amount of the Kinderzulagen remains the same as determined by the canton. However, the monthly payment will vary slightly depending on how many work-days there are in a month. See the article at this link for details:

https://www.ktipp.ch/artikel/d/famil...erzulagen-weg/
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Old 09.09.2015, 19:30
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Re: Working while at the RAV

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Over 55 get more than 400 days,
Ooh, that's interesting. Didn't see this when you posted it. Any idea how much more?
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Old 09.09.2015, 19:38
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Re: Working while at the RAV

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Ooh, that's interesting. Didn't see this when you posted it. Any idea how much more?
520 days for those aged over 55, which is basically 2 years of benefit in a 2 year rahemnfrist.
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Old 09.09.2015, 19:52
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Re: Working while at the RAV

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520 days for those aged over 55, which is basically 2 years of benefit in a 2 year rahemnfrist.
Thanks. Once my curiosity was piqued I managed to find it myself in French (my reading in German's really not good enough for this sort of detail) http://www.guidechomage.ch/articles/...tes-de-chomage
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Old 09.09.2015, 21:35
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Re: Working while at the RAV

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Does anyone know if you receive Kinderzulagen (child benefit) when you are unemployed.
Looking at a small salary income when employed, so at 80% unemployment benefit (when having kids) it is not really a lot of money, especially if from that 80% one must pay contributions, and health ins etc.. working out not very much at all..
salary under 80000chf per year gross..
Anyone know how its all calculated?
Thanks
You should also check with the social insurance office if you'd be eligible for any benefits, e.g. help with health insurance. It's means tested
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