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  #81  
Old 28.02.2015, 08:10
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Re: Danish guy that wants to move to Switzerland

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Heh, thanks for the link (I wonder if the forum's youtube integration can be changed to not try and force flash - the video is watchable on youtube without flash).
Yes, that would be nice. I run with flash switched off so didn't look at the embedded video when I submitted the post. Fortunately my OCD simply wouldn't let me deploy without testing and I went back to the post a few minutes later, enabled flash and discovered I'd made the newbie mistake of putting the URL in the YOUTUBE tag instead of the video code.
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  #82  
Old 28.02.2015, 08:38
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Re: Danish guy that wants to move to Switzerland

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Case in point - large flows of money into the Anglo-Saxon financial system are looking for assets to buy (startups are sucking on this teat, stock markets are at record highs). Just buying the Swiss Franc has historically been a good bet so money flows into Switzerland pushing the franc up; two bad things happen now - export sales dry-up and, internally, there's deflation as people put-off capital expenditure since it's always cheaper to do that tomorrow. Therefore SNB (a proxy for the Swiss government) prints money to ameliorate these two things; i.e. to "stimulate demand". QED.
You are forgetting the good things, like the fact that importing items just got 20% cheaper (or more depending on the appreciation), you can now get a BMW or an Iphone for 20% less, How is that a bad thing? That is just temporary prosperity and happiness until the imports become so large that they drive down the currency value again due to lower demand for swiss currency abroad.

Your point about deflation is also incorrect, people do not postpone their consumption that much, there is a time premium also on items, they prefer their BMW now over waiting 5 years since waiting means losing the use of a BMW for 5 years and that is a huge economic cost also that counters deflationary pressures.
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  #83  
Old 28.02.2015, 09:03
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Re: Danish guy that wants to move to Switzerland

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You are forgetting the good things, like the fact that importing items just got 20% cheaper (or more depending on the appreciation), you can now get a BMW or an Iphone for 20% less, How is that a bad thing? That is just temporary prosperity and happiness until the imports become so large that they drive down the currency value again due to lower demand for swiss currency abroad.

Your point about deflation is also incorrect, people do not postpone their consumption that much, there is a time premium also on items, they prefer their BMW now over waiting 5 years since waiting means losing the use of a BMW for 5 years and that is a huge economic cost also that counters deflationary pressures.
That hasn't been the case in real-world examples of deflation. E.g. 1990s Japan. Also, there's more to an economy than consumer spending. As someone who actually commissions capital expenditure in a real-world Swiss company, I can assure you that the trend is to a) Postpone expenditure and b) Source from outside Switzerland. Your 20% cheaper just ends up as a 20% staff/wage cut. (This also reduces demand for foreign workers - didn't you say you wanted to come here?). The simple fact of the matter is there aren't enough Swiss Francs in the world and we need some more.
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Old 28.02.2015, 13:15
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Re: Danish guy that wants to move to Switzerland

Since the subject of startups has popped up once or twice, this is quite amusing (link courtesy of Hacker News which you must be reading religously if you're in a startup):

http://techcrunch.com/2014/12/15/how-to-speak-startup/

(Opium is my favourite...)
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Old 28.02.2015, 14:40
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Re: Danish guy that wants to move to Switzerland

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Since the subject of startups has popped up once or twice, this is quite amusing (link courtesy of Hacker News which you must be reading religously if you're in a startup):

http://techcrunch.com/2014/12/15/how-to-speak-startup/

(Opium is my favourite...)
Great fun. There's a huge amount of hubris oozing around the startup industry. Good to see a few bubbles pricked.
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  #86  
Old 28.02.2015, 15:34
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Re: Danish guy that wants to move to Switzerland

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Economics is really simple - it's all about money supply. Problem is, this is embedded in a second-order chaotic system. Parsing differences such as between fiscal and monetary policy misses the point. (Both economic schools get bogged-down in these details because they didn't have the kind of modeling we have now). Also, whatever Switzerland wants to do, it's not isolated from the rest of the world.

Case in point - large flows of money into the Anglo-Saxon financial system are looking for assets to buy (startups are sucking on this teat, stock markets are at record highs). Just buying the Swiss Franc has historically been a good bet so money flows into Switzerland pushing the franc up; two bad things happen now - export sales dry-up and, internally, there's deflation as people put-off capital expenditure since it's always cheaper to do that tomorrow. Therefore SNB (a proxy for the Swiss government) prints money to ameliorate these two things; i.e. to "stimulate demand". QED.
This is so tortured, you have to be pulling my leg.

No, economics is not all about money supply. Sometimes it's about people actually doing valuable stuff and trading it.

No, having concepts of monetary and fiscal policy as two things doesn't miss the point. It is useful to see how they relate too, but you are just trying to muddy the waters so you can bullshit me in the next paragraph.

The modelling you refer to. Whatever. We also have reality.

In your second paragraph you do not show deficit spending here to "stimulate demand". You're badly distorting things to try and make those words fit, rather than addressing what you know I actually meant.

I don't know, maybe it's nice that you can convince yourself that public policy round here is aligned with you somehow, even if the contortion required to do so is ridiculous.

I fear I'm being trolled so I'd better leave it there.
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  #87  
Old 28.02.2015, 16:04
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Re: Danish guy that wants to move to Switzerland

Mate, it's good u're an autodidact economist. Now is time to apply. Do a deep research on the labor market in Switzerland.

The divorce of the euro from swiss fr has brought agony to laborers in the manufacturing/production industries. Jobs are being massively eroded.

Make use of the wise advise on here:
- learn German/French while there
- visit Swiss for a month to get first hand experience
- after gathering much information, do a personal finance analysis between Swiss and Denmark, do not forget the effects of interest rates and inflation in your calculations
- the opportunity cost despite political system/ideology will be ur best option

Do some homework less you will be depressed like some who like you moved here looking for paradise and found a "friendly Jurrassic Park"

Good luck mate
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  #88  
Old 28.02.2015, 16:14
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Re: Danish guy that wants to move to Switzerland

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This is so tortured, you have to be pulling my leg.

No, economics is not all about money supply. Sometimes it's about people actually doing valuable stuff and trading it.

No, having concepts of monetary and fiscal policy as two things doesn't miss the point. It is useful to see how they relate too, but you are just trying to muddy the waters so you can bullshit me in the next paragraph.

The modelling you refer to. Whatever. We also have reality.

In your second paragraph you do not show deficit spending here to "stimulate demand". You're badly distorting things to try and make those words fit, rather than addressing what you know I actually meant.

I don't know, maybe it's nice that you can convince yourself that public policy round here is aligned with you somehow, even if the contortion required to do so is ridiculous.

I fear I'm being trolled so I'd better leave it there.
I'm not trolling you (although I do like pushing a devil's advocate argument sometimes). I fear you're staring over the abyss with a rather 1920s mindset (no coincidence - you're Austrian School); from a time when economics was a quasi-analytical soft-science which thought it was prescriptive when it was barely descriptive.

fiscal and monetary policy are just two sides of the same thing and the only way to make progress is to forget old labels and model the cash flows and behaviour of the relevant agents.

Time to drop your books and pick up a computer (well, a whole data-centre of them really).
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  #89  
Old 28.02.2015, 19:47
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Re: Danish guy that wants to move to Switzerland

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I'm not trolling you (although I do like pushing a devil's advocate argument sometimes). I fear you're staring over the abyss with a rather 1920s mindset (no coincidence - you're Austrian School); from a time when economics was a quasi-analytical soft-science which thought it was prescriptive when it was barely descriptive.

fiscal and monetary policy are just two sides of the same thing and the only way to make progress is to forget old labels and model the cash flows and behaviour of the relevant agents.

Time to drop your books and pick up a computer (well, a whole data-centre of them really).
Fiscal and monetary policy get intertwined when there is high public debt, and the same parties get to influence both areas. Which is a broken state of affairs compared to price stability and low public debt. In the latter situation, a central bank can target price stability, and each unit of government can manage its own budget.

I'm not that much of an Austrian skooler. At least not more than a physicist using newtonian mechanics to describe billiards is a dogmatic Newtonian stuck in the seventeenth century. The useful bits are just part of the corpus now.

Faith in computer models, contra reality, almost seems to be a religion for some people. Which is a nice twist, given that the main way atheists can arrive at religious thoughts is by considering the possibility we're living in a simulation.

Keep your data centre and whatever bogus assumptions you've programmed in to it, and I'll keep reality, thanks.
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  #90  
Old 20.03.2015, 13:38
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Re: Danish guy that wants to move to Switzerland

Hi DK guy
Yes, you are right that you can afford a vacation when you are here and we don't have that crazy tax on cars like you have, so you can afford that too. It is the best place on earth to live/work, I agree. I just wanted to make you aware of some drawbacks before you pack up lock, stock and barrel and move here. That's why I thought a quick trip here is worth it for you.
Only 50% of the country is actually habitable due to mountains and forests, and most people live in 30% of the country. This makes land prices so high. So between property costs and high wages the products are very expensive. Foreign magazines cost twice would they do in Germany, washing powder is 3 times more expensive. Shopping in Germany is an option (and you can get back their VAT), but only realistic if you live in a border area like Basel.
Low taxes means little social benefits, like if you have to rely on money from social services, they expect you to pay it back. As long as you have a job, you are fine.

I definitely think you should give it a go, in reading your responses are definitely fed up with the system you currently live in. It is a really nice place here. I would learn some German first, even though Swiss German is way different, they do understand/speak high.
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