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  #21  
Old 11.03.2015, 11:06
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Re: Cost of Living: Zürich (suburbs) vs. Bay Area, CA

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i've also read that the quality of school districts vary a lot and this is worrying for me... my children go to the local school here and at least where i live, we've never had this issue. so, i really need to dig into this and how it will affect my commute.
If the catchment system for school is similar to the UK, generally the more expensive the apartments/ houses are, the better the local school is. Once you have finalised an offer, it is a good idea to speak to your new colleagues about places to live/ or schools to send the kids to. Specially the PA/ secretaries - they are usually very happy to share about their local knowledge.

Good luck!
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Old 11.03.2015, 11:18
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Re: Cost of Living: Zürich (suburbs) vs. Bay Area, CA

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Damn - no chance for you to live in a little box on a hillside, a little box made of ticky tacky


(A gold star for 2 references: the location referred to and the TV series)
Not sure of the location - Santa Clarita maybe?
But I recall the song from the opening of Weeds.

And for what it's worth I would seriously consider less tangible quality of life/time issues with such a move. Good luck w/ the decision OP.
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  #23  
Old 11.03.2015, 11:39
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Re: Cost of Living: Zürich (suburbs) vs. Bay Area, CA

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Thanks!

But these search results are for cost of living "in" Zürich... I actually need the other way around. I have a pretty good idea of the living standard in Zürich... What I need is a translation of this standard to the Bay Area...
Should have read a bit more But, you seem to have gotten good answers.
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Old 11.03.2015, 12:58
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Re: Cost of Living: Zürich (suburbs) vs. Bay Area, CA

120,000USD isn't going to get you far with a family of 5 in the SF bay area. Maybe the kids will get the benefit of the sun, new experiences though

Also crime is different in the USA to most of Europe. (ie. much worse)

I lived there a long time if you have any questions I'm happy to help
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Old 11.03.2015, 13:14
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Re: Cost of Living: Zürich (suburbs) vs. Bay Area, CA

Palo Alto in general is not much cheaper than SF and in cases much more expensive, and not all of Palo Alto or any other suburb of the bay offers the same standard of school.

What age are your children and what languages do they speak?

I would suggest 150 minimum USD and be careful to check health costs
180 is definitely doable if not paying for private schools/daycare.
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  #26  
Old 11.03.2015, 14:00
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Palo Alto in general is not much cheaper than SF and in cases much more expensive, and not all of Palo Alto or any other suburb of the bay offers the same standard of school.

What age are your children and what languages do they speak?

I would suggest 150 minimum USD and be careful to check health costs
180 is definitely doable if not paying for private schools/daycare.

Totally depends. You can find a place on the east side of Interstate 5 for dirt cheap, as long as you don't mind gang infested neighborhoods. Could be fun. You'll have to use words like, "Homie", "Esse", "Cuz". You may have to choose between Blue or Red bandanas.

If it were me, I would look in the area of Santa Cruz, or around half-moon bay. Its a longer commute, but living by the beach and surf culture is a reward in itself.

So, aesthetics and lifestyle is important for your sanity and well-being. You might be better off taking corporate housing until you get a real good feel for the area. There are cheap houses far away, but the environment may be boring.

Anyway, I believe you need more than $200K to meet your standard of living here, considering standard of food, crime and things.

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i've also read that the quality of school districts vary a lot and this is worrying for me... my children go to the local school here and at least where i live, we've never had this issue. so, i really need to dig into this and how it will affect my commute.

btw, thanks for the parachute tip.
Quality of schools are commensurate with the price of the real estate in its area, and the average income of its population.

Last edited by 3Wishes; 12.03.2015 at 19:14. Reason: merging successive posts
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  #27  
Old 12.03.2015, 10:00
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If the catchment system for school is similar to the UK, generally the more expensive the apartments/ houses are, the better the local school is. Once you have finalised an offer, it is a good idea to speak to your new colleagues about places to live/ or schools to send the kids to. Specially the PA/ secretaries - they are usually very happy to share about their local knowledge.

Good luck!
Thanks! My contact at the company is a colleague from my previous company and he also relocated with family... So at least he has first-hand knowledge...

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120,000USD isn't going to get you far with a family of 5 in the SF bay area. Maybe the kids will get the benefit of the sun, new experiences though

Also crime is different in the USA to most of Europe. (ie. much worse)

I lived there a long time if you have any questions I'm happy to help
This is also my impression that USD 120K would be low for a family in the Bay Area. We would definitely like the weather more and this is something difficult to put a price on. Crime is a concern as my kids walk to their local school right now and it would be a pity if they can't continue to do this. As for my question, I have used homegate here, do you know a good equivalent for the Bay Area? Thanks.

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Palo Alto in general is not much cheaper than SF and in cases much more expensive, and not all of Palo Alto or any other suburb of the bay offers the same standard of school.

What age are your children and what languages do they speak?

I would suggest 150 minimum USD and be careful to check health costs
180 is definitely doable if not paying for private schools/daycare.
Hi Les, children will be 10/8/4 this year and all speak English.

For health insurance, do companies offer to shoulder a portion of it? For the same medical service that we get here, would you say that the health insurance is cheaper or not?

Daycare won't be a problem as my spouse is not working. Yeah, I agree that 150 would be the floor. In general, for a given neighborhood, what is the percentage of local children going to private school? I've spoken to the locals in my town and I haven't come across anybody that sent their child to private school. I know private schools have a better "name" in the US than here...

Last edited by 3Wishes; 12.03.2015 at 19:15. Reason: merging successive posts
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  #28  
Old 12.03.2015, 12:50
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Re: Cost of Living: Zürich (suburbs) vs. Bay Area, CA

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As for my question, I have used homegate here, do you know a good equivalent for the Bay Area?.
Try Zillow. They have school rankings, amongst other stats. I know there are a number websites with comps and stats by neighborhood. You might find tools for political campaigns useful for that kind of research.
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Old 12.03.2015, 12:54
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Re: Cost of Living: Zürich (suburbs) vs. Bay Area, CA

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This is also my impression that USD 120K would be low for a family in the Bay Area. We would definitely like the weather more and this is something difficult to put a price on. Crime is a concern as my kids walk to their local school right now and it would be a pity if they can't continue to do this. As for my question, I have used homegate here, do you know a good equivalent for the Bay Area? Thanks.


most of the rentals in the bay area are via http://sfbay.craigslist.org/

have a browse for prices.

Some areas the kids still walk to school, they are usually not the cheaper areas.

The 4 year old would be still daycare age in the US. Most start "school" at 5 or 6.

Homeschooling is also an option and popular there.
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  #30  
Old 12.03.2015, 17:03
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Re: Cost of Living: Zürich (suburbs) vs. Bay Area, CA

As others have said - housing, school, taxes and transport need to be your considerations.

You will need 2 cars for a family of 5 in the Bay Area unless one person plans on staying home and never leaving the house (like, ever). Get used to driving everywhere.

Public School quality generally correlated to how rich the neighborhood is (how's that for keeping people within their social class?). I went to a school, let's say in a less desirable area and there were fights every day and there are subjects that I plain just never learned because the teachers never taught. But that's also one extreme, you might get something in between. Crime is highly dependent on where you live of course, but yeah, don't expect to be able to take public transportation in some areas at all (I remember laughing at my European friends when they came to visit and tried to take the bus at 1 am, well not laughing, cause it's actually dangerous in some areas).

Housing - forget about buying upfront, you need to rent and it'll be one of the major costs. House quality is also lower than here. I also find that there's less green space near houses. Personally, I also hate the strip malls you have everywhere vs. the villages here - soul killing...

Taxes - highest in the US and rising,so make sure you calculate your salary net of state, federal, city) taxes.

But you're right in that it has beautiful weather, friendly people, and good job opportunities. So gotta decide what kind of life you guys are looking for, can't really go wrong between the two!
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Old 12.03.2015, 18:29
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Re: Cost of Living: Zürich (suburbs) vs. Bay Area, CA

It's interesting to me that this is all based on salary alone. Quality of life is based on a lot more. Personally, I think adjusting to Zurich for me after coming from the Bay Area has been quite hard on a cultural level. It's hard for me to understand the business-first philosophy here. Even personal interactions seems so formal and business like. It's as if even talking is some sort of transaction where you exchange information. Anyway, people in the Bay Area are a lot friendlier and you'll make connections and friends much more quickly.

The weather will be better for sure, but that might vary a bit depending on what you like.

Your children will be exposed to a lot more diversity in ethnicity, culture and thought. Some of this may be a "bad" influence unfortunately, but if they're effectively able to filter, they'll be a lot better off overall. For you, as parents, there'll be a lot more to do as well and it'll be a lot cheaper to go out to eat, do family activities and the like.

As far as raw salary, south bay is a sprawling mess. I suggest you just as well stay in Cupertino or neighboring Campbell and call it a day. Public transport is a no-no there so figure you'll need 2 cars. Property taxes and income taxes are quite higher. I imagine you'll need $140K-$150K or so to have the same kind of life money-wise, but I think you really need to consider the other factors. Do you want a more dynamic life? Will it be hard on your kids and wife to adjust? What is your goal with these moves? I think this requires a lot of research beyond salary.
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Old 12.03.2015, 18:58
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Re: Cost of Living: Zürich (suburbs) vs. Bay Area, CA

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It's interesting to me that this is all based on salary alone. Quality of life is based on a lot more. Personally, I think adjusting to Zurich for me after coming from the Bay Area has been quite hard on a cultural level. It's hard for me to understand the business-first philosophy here. Even personal interactions seems so formal and business like. It's as if even talking is some sort of transaction where you exchange information. Anyway, people in the Bay Area are a lot friendlier and you'll make connections and friends much more quickly.

The weather will be better for sure, but that might vary a bit depending on what you like.

Your children will be exposed to a lot more diversity in ethnicity, culture and thought. Some of this may be a "bad" influence unfortunately, but if they're effectively able to filter, they'll be a lot better off overall. For you, as parents, there'll be a lot more to do as well and it'll be a lot cheaper to go out to eat, do family activities and the like.

As far as raw salary, south bay is a sprawling mess. I suggest you just as well stay in Cupertino or neighboring Campbell and call it a day. Public transport is a no-no there so figure you'll need 2 cars. Property taxes and income taxes are quite higher. I imagine you'll need $140K-$150K or so to have the same kind of life money-wise, but I think you really need to consider the other factors. Do you want a more dynamic life? Will it be hard on your kids and wife to adjust? What is your goal with these moves? I think this requires a lot of research beyond salary.
khabibul, i agree that these kind of moves need to go beyond salary but important things such as weather, friendlier people are very difficult to quantify although we believe that the family would like it better in terms of these 2 things.

if i live and work in cupertino, is taking the bike to work an option? the rent might be more expensive but at least commute time and needing 2 cars is not an issue. i've also read that the public schools in the cupertino area are quite ok.

for me, commute time is the quality of life killer. if i'm home in under 20mins, then it gives me more time go out with the kids or go for a run/bike.
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  #33  
Old 12.03.2015, 19:09
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Re: Cost of Living: Zürich (suburbs) vs. Bay Area, CA

1 other thing, if you want to fly back to see family remember the cost, it's not cheap!

Cupertino is nice but I am not sure if you are aware but many areas are mostly 1 ethnic groups clumped together. Some people don't mind, some even like this. Some are more diverse but I found the Bay Area has little segregated areas.

There are various forms of public transport, Apple and Google do their own buses even. Depends on where to where if I would say they are safe.

If you look on citydata.com you can compare crime for various towns among other things.
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Old 12.03.2015, 19:23
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Re: Cost of Living: Zürich (suburbs) vs. Bay Area, CA

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Public transport is a no-no there so figure you'll need 2 cars.
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There are various forms of public transport, Apple and Google do their own buses even. Depends on where to where if I would say they are safe.

The BART rail system is not bad, if your points are near the stations. Traffic is a freakin nightmare. It could take you a couple of hours to get from end to end on the 101 in traffic, and it has been known to gridlock. That is one of the reasons why I left. i spent most of my life breathing in someone else's exhaust than actually do something.

Definitely takes some adjustments, for you and for your family. This cannot be more strongly emphasized. I would see to it you have a bridge to come back, if you should chose to do so. But beware.
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Old 12.03.2015, 20:11
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Re: Cost of Living: Zürich (suburbs) vs. Bay Area, CA

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for me, commute time is the quality of life killer. if i'm home in under 20mins, then it gives me more time go out with the kids or go for a run/bike.
I agree. Biking is totally doable and I had a friend who did this and enjoyed it quite a lot. The thing is, it won't be like biking here in Zurich if you're used to that. You'll likely be biking alongside 2-3 lane expressways which have a bike-lane on the side. It feels hell of a lot different to bike when someone's buzzing 50 mph besides you but I did it for 6 months no problem and my friend did it for the 5 years I've known him no problem.

Depending on where you are in Cupertino, bus could also be an option. Bonus is that VTA has bike racks and you can combine bus and bike easily. Check out VTA map here(http://www.vta.org/getting-around/maps/bus-rail-map) and see if that might be an option for you. Cupertino is a bit more sleepy than a lot of the bay area, but still alright. I hope you like Japanese food and markets and such.
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Old 17.03.2015, 17:42
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Re: Cost of Living: Zürich (suburbs) vs. Bay Area, CA

What is the RAV equivalent in the US? I have the impression that employees are less protected in the US than here. If there is no equivalent, then at least this is one thing I need to negotiate.

Public school. If a school is rated 7/10, what does that exactly mean vs. a 10/10 school? And if you would bring your typical Zurich Primarschule, where would it rate?
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Old 17.03.2015, 18:03
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Re: Cost of Living: Zürich (suburbs) vs. Bay Area, CA

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What is the RAV equivalent in the US? I have the impression that employees are less protected in the US than here. If there is no equivalent, then at least this is one thing I need to negotiate.
I think you should not just look at rents but get an idea of American culture.

Simple example on the RAV: Forcing employees to pay into an insurance which helps them financially when they are unemployed is clearly a case of European communism... it's nearly as bad as a mandatory health insurance.
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Old 17.03.2015, 18:04
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Re: Cost of Living: Zürich (suburbs) vs. Bay Area, CA

From our good friend Wiki:

"In the United States unemployment benefits generally pay eligible workers between 40-50% of their previous pay.[31] Benefits are generally paid by state governments, funded in large part by state and federal payroll taxes levied against employers, to workers who have become unemployed through no fault of their own. This compensation is classified as a type of social welfare benefit. According to the Internal Revenue Code, these types of benefits are to be included in a taxpayer's gross income.[32]
The standard time-length of unemployment compensation is six months, although extensions are possible during economic downturns. Once this six-month time period elapses and payment ceases, an individual who remains unemployed is left with little means of a social safety net other than through help from charities, family or friends. This contrasts with the situation of the unemployed in many of the European countries (such as France, Germany, Ireland and the United Kingdom), where, once an unemployed individual is no longer eligible (or was never eligible to begin with) for contribution-based unemployment benefit, the individual then becomes eligible for a standard non-contribution unemployment benefit, which lasts either until the worker becomes employed or enters retirement." (My bolding)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unemplo...#United_States
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Old 17.03.2015, 18:06
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Re: Cost of Living: Zürich (suburbs) vs. Bay Area, CA

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What is the RAV equivalent in the US? I have the impression that employees are less protected in the US than here. If there is no equivalent, then at least this is one thing I need to negotiate.

Public school. If a school is rated 7/10, what does that exactly mean vs. a 10/10 school? And if you would bring your typical Zurich Primarschule, where would it rate?

2 weeks notice if that is the norm, but if they got you a visa they "should" be less likely to just get rid of you.

Schools can be lower for multiple reasons. Also remember the bay area has a LOT of private schools. Public school is often the kids from poorer families. Now this is not a 100% rule but most often the families with money send their kids to private schools. Did you look on citydata?
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Old 17.03.2015, 18:07
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Re: Cost of Living: Zürich (suburbs) vs. Bay Area, CA

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From our good friend Wiki:

"In the United States unemployment benefits generally pay eligible workers between 40-50% of their previous pay.[31] Benefits are generally paid by state governments, funded in large part by state and federal payroll taxes levied against employers, to workers who have become unemployed through no fault of their own. This compensation is classified as a type of social welfare benefit. According to the Internal Revenue Code, these types of benefits are to be included in a taxpayer's gross income.[32]
The standard time-length of unemployment compensation is six months, although extensions are possible during economic downturns. Once this six-month time period elapses and payment ceases, an individual who remains unemployed is left with little means of a social safety net other than through help from charities, family or friends. This contrasts with the situation of the unemployed in many of the European countries (such as France, Germany, Ireland and the United Kingdom), where, once an unemployed individual is no longer eligible (or was never eligible to begin with) for contribution-based unemployment benefit, the individual then becomes eligible for a standard non-contribution unemployment benefit, which lasts either until the worker becomes employed or enters retirement." (My bolding)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unemplo...#United_States

I am pretty sure as a H1B1 permit holder the OP wouldn't get any of these benefits.
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