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Old 12.03.2015, 10:12
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4 months off from RAV to launch business: trap!

During initial discussions with my RAV adviser, I mentioned I was working very hard on a new project that would provide me with gainful employment at some point down the road (once new legislation had been passed in Ireland... long story etc) and he pushed me very hard to send a business plan to my "unemployment overlord" in Schwyz as "she'll sign you off from visiting the RAV, filling in the 14 boxes etc for 4 months".
So this seemed like a cunning plan, but the planned business involves a large number of multinational corporations and also some strategic decisions from some important people, people who can't be rushed by me... so come the end of the 4 month period (which included Xmas which effectively cost me a month) the project was a lot further on but not quite ready to launch.

At which point I got an ultimatum from the RAV: "Launch or abandon totally." So if I want to return under RAV supervision (and continue to be paid) I have to sign a document to say that I've completely abandoned the project and will do no further work on it WHATSOEVER. This was NOT pointed out to me at the outset funnily enough....

Given the calibre of the firms involved, (including some very high end legal firms) simply closing down the project which we've all been working on for over a year would probably result in my receiving some large bills for wasting peoples time, or at least get me blacklisted by some of the biggest names in business...

However, on returning to the RAV, my whole meeting was given over to emphasising that on NO ACCOUNT can I do anything further on the project or I'll face "significant action".

So be warned if your RAV adviser is pushing you down this path as heavily as mine was: if you aren't ready to launch in exactly 4 months, you will be expected to bin the project in its entirety.

Now do you think

a) I have thrown away 12 months hard work and offended all my potential partners/employers

or

b) .....

So beware!
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Old 12.03.2015, 10:21
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Re: 4 months off from RAV to launch business: trap!

Interesting, some of the RAV rules never cease to amaze me.

What support did you get from RAV to set up your business or was it just freeing up you normal job search requirements?
My wife is looking at this option as she is likely to be made redundant soon. Any other tips or tricks for getting this support?
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Old 12.03.2015, 10:30
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Re: 4 months off from RAV to launch business: trap!

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During initial discussions with my RAV adviser, I mentioned I was working very hard on a new project that would provide me with gainful employment at some point down the road (once new legislation had been passed in Ireland... long story etc) and he pushed me very hard to send a business plan to my "unemployment overlord" in Schwyz as "she'll sign you off from visiting the RAV, filling in the 14 boxes etc for 4 months".
So this seemed like a cunning plan, but the planned business involves a large number of multinational corporations and also some strategic decisions from some important people, people who can't be rushed by me... so come the end of the 4 month period (which included Xmas which effectively cost me a month) the project was a lot further on but not quite ready to launch.

At which point I got an ultimatum from the RAV: "Launch or abandon totally." So if I want to return under RAV supervision (and continue to be paid) I have to sign a document to say that I've completely abandoned the project and will do no further work on it WHATSOEVER. This was NOT pointed out to me at the outset funnily enough....

Given the calibre of the firms involved, (including some very high end legal firms) simply closing down the project which we've all been working on for over a year would probably result in my receiving some large bills for wasting peoples time, or at least get me blacklisted by some of the biggest names in business...

However, on returning to the RAV, my whole meeting was given over to emphasising that on NO ACCOUNT can I do anything further on the project or I'll face "significant action".

So be warned if your RAV adviser is pushing you down this path as heavily as mine was: if you aren't ready to launch in exactly 4 months, you will be expected to bin the project in its entirety.

Now do you think

a) I have thrown away 12 months hard work and offended all my potential partners/employers

or

b) .....

So beware!
Well there are most certainly two sides to it. One being that most likely there is a refrence to this ruling in the terms and conditions. The other being that slogging through possibly hundreds of pages of terms and conditions written in legal terms is next to impossible for us mere humans.

You are caught between a rock and a hard place.

Good luck.
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Old 12.03.2015, 10:39
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Re: 4 months off from RAV to launch business: trap!

Wow, RAV appear to be the epitome of Swiss bureaucracy
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Old 12.03.2015, 10:45
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Re: 4 months off from RAV to launch business: trap!

just complete your project. They cannot tell you what to do in your spare time. Ask them for a legal document from the court to sign that you have to abandon
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Old 12.03.2015, 10:46
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Re: 4 months off from RAV to launch business: trap!

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just complete your project. They cannot tell you what to do in your spare time. Ask them for a legal document from the court to sign that you have to abandon
I wonder if later though, when it is ready to launch, they could refuse him permission to be self-employed off that project.
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Old 12.03.2015, 10:53
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Re: 4 months off from RAV to launch business: trap!

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Wow, RAV appear to be the epitome of Swiss bureaucracy
Well, let's be direct:
1) Setting up a start-up in nearly all cases means that you do a gamble - you will have to work hard for nearly no money for a year or so in order to set up something that has the potential to pay off way better than any employment.

2) Swiss employees pay into an insurance to hedge the risk of unemployment. If you pay in long enough are you covered to bridge a gap between jobs. The system only works if everyone keeps their gaps between employments as short as possible and do not use the insurance for anything else as the emergency system it is designed to be.

3) That's not what the OP is looking for - he wants to continue to get paid by the insurance while not looking for employment but working on his own company.

I do not know why other Swiss should pay for this plan and find the RAV paying four months of 70% of your former salary to get you off their book frankly rather generous. It is a shame that you had a misunderstanding with them, but I don't think you can expect the RAV to fund your business for the first year. If you are concrete and honest about your plan: there are tons of other government funds helping start ups. Leave the RAV and try to secure some of that funding instead.
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Old 12.03.2015, 10:56
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Re: 4 months off from RAV to launch business: trap!

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That's not what the OP is looking for - he wants to continue to get paid by the insurance while not looking for employment but working on his own company.
Did he say that he wouldn't look for other work? I don't think he did.
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Old 12.03.2015, 10:59
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Re: 4 months off from RAV to launch business: trap!

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Did he say that he wouldn't look for other work? I don't think he did.
Yup, he did: he said he was promised to not have to visit the Rav anymore and not "fill in the 14 boxes" which means to show proof that you sent out applications every month.
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Old 12.03.2015, 11:02
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Re: 4 months off from RAV to launch business: trap!

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Yup, he did: he said he was promised to not have to visit the Rav anymore and not "fill in the 14 boxes" which means to show proof that you sent out applications every month.
For those 4 months! Not forever!

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and he pushed me very hard to send a business plan to my "unemployment overlord" in Schwyz as "she'll sign you off from visiting the RAV, filling in the 14 boxes etc for 4 months".
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Old 12.03.2015, 11:04
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Re: 4 months off from RAV to launch business: trap!

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Old 12.03.2015, 12:13
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Re: 4 months off from RAV to launch business: trap!

You seem to spend a lot of time complaining about a system which provides you with a generous amount of money for 2 years.

If you plan was so good, after 12 months of work, you would surely be able to launch it or create a business with other shareholders.

Sometimes it's more benefical so share the cake rather than trying to keep all of it and losing all of it
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Old 12.03.2015, 12:18
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Re: 4 months off from RAV to launch business: trap!

I can sympathise with your position of getting caught up within the RAV machinery. On the one hand, I'd agree with the earlier post that four months assistance is generous and that extending it would be unfair as they would basically be funding your start-up. However, to insist that you drop the project completely strikes me as very naïve. Surely there must be some recognition that starting a new business does not operate with the efficiency of a Swiss watch. It would seem sensible that you could drop the RAV assistance, begin applying for jobs and continue to develop the new business.


My wife successfully set up her own business here after leaving work. As a professional, it did not involve heavy capital investment, product development, etc so it was quick. We did initially seek assistance from RAV but given they were perhaps the single most unhelpful government agency/body I have ever delt with, we just dropped the idea and did it our self. After hearing your experience, I'm glad we did!
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Old 12.03.2015, 21:34
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Re: 4 months off from RAV to launch business: trap!

Well, I guess we now got the missing link to your forced German course. It is clear that RAV suspects you of abusing the system to fund your business plan.

By sending you to the German class they are making it impossible for you to spend too much time working on your BP at the expenses of the unemployment insurance. And at the same time they are challanging you staying on RAV since if you are just abusing the system and de facto has a valid BP you will most likely give up RAV through this.

Well done RAV Schwyz if you ask me! Many countries definitely could learn a thing or two from the Swiss system!
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Old 13.03.2015, 18:10
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Re: 4 months off from RAV to launch business: trap!

I would say this depends on whether you trust that your business will be succesful. If yes, then go off RAV. If not stay on RAV and you can still start your business once your RAV runs out (after 18 months usually).
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Old 13.03.2015, 18:30
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Re: 4 months off from RAV to launch business: trap!

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Well, I guess we now got the missing link to your forced German course. It is clear that RAV suspects you of abusing the system to fund your business plan.

By sending you to the German class they are making it impossible for you to spend too much time working on your BP at the expenses of the unemployment insurance. And at the same time they are challanging you staying on RAV since if you are just abusing the system and de facto has a valid BP you will most likely give up RAV through this.

Well done RAV Schwyz if you ask me! Many countries definitely could learn a thing or two from the Swiss system!
Ourch, that is harsh- and yet- I think we are only getting one side of the picture here.
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Old 13.03.2015, 18:52
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Re: 4 months off from RAV to launch business: trap!

In effect, the OP has been crowd-funded by the Swiss taxpayers, and not from those high profile companies set to gain from the venture.

We'll be expecting our shares once you list.
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Old 13.03.2015, 18:53
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Re: 4 months off from RAV to launch business: trap!

I dont find these arrogant comments very helpful, in response to someone who is honestly looking for help here.
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Old 13.03.2015, 18:55
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Re: 4 months off from RAV to launch business: trap!

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I dont find these arrogant comments very helpful, in response to someone who is honestly looking for help here.
I was unemployed for 12 months once, and this option was explained to me, along with ALL THE CAVEATS. I cannot believe that OP was not given the full terms. Reading the fineprint is Entrepreneur 101.
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Old 13.03.2015, 18:58
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Re: 4 months off from RAV to launch business: trap!

Ok, I cannot judge on that. In general I agree it is a good thing that one can start as an entrepreneur while still on RAV and yes at one point one does need to make a decision. I guess it boils down whether one has a business that one trusts in that it will work.
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