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Old 06.05.2015, 00:19
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Being offered a job and now my future ex boss changed his mind. Valid?

Dear all,

I wonder if anyone has had something similar and could help. I have been offered a new job within my current company.

I have accepted it, EVERYONE was informed, then I get an invite from my future boss to discuss the salary, 21% decrease because company needs to save.

I made a counter offer, to work 60% of that decreased salary. (as I'm a working mum, if I cannot make a career, I thought I would rather focus on my family)

My offer was not accepted, then I say I accept the original offer. He replied saying that the original offer is no longer valid!?! HELP!

What are my options?

Many thanks
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Old 06.05.2015, 00:34
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Re: Being offered a job and now my future ex boss changed his mind. Valid?

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Dear all,

I wonder if anyone has had something similar and could help. I have been offered a new job within my current company.

I have accepted it, EVERYONE was informed, then I get an invite from my future boss to discuss the salary, 21% decrease because company needs to save.

I made a counter offer, to work 60% of that decreased salary. (as I'm a working mum, if I cannot make a career, I thought I would rather focus on my family)

My offer was not accepted, then I say I accept the original offer. He replied saying that the original offer is no longer valid!?! HELP!

What are my options?

Many thanks
Find another job!
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Old 06.05.2015, 00:37
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Re: Being offered a job and now my future ex boss changed his mind. Valid?

Apart from looking for a new job, obviously?
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Old 06.05.2015, 00:39
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Re: Being offered a job and now my future ex boss changed his mind. Valid?

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Apart from looking for a new job, obviously?
See if they still want to employ you or not & go from there.
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Old 06.05.2015, 00:40
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Re: Being offered a job and now my future ex boss changed his mind. Valid?

Only option: learn to never accept a job before knowing and discussing salary.
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Old 06.05.2015, 00:44
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Re: Being offered a job and now my future ex boss changed his mind. Valid?

Do you happen to have either offer in writing, or did you sign anything?
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Old 06.05.2015, 01:08
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Re: Being offered a job and now my future ex boss changed his mind. Valid?

As salary was not mentioned, and he was aware of my current salary, I thought it was an internal transfer with the same contract details.

The future boss then invited for a meeting to try to push the lower salary, I didn't signed anything and asked for a written offer. He has downgraded the original job description to justify the decrease. I've kept both. (Strangely the original e-mail with the first offer disappeared from my mail box, luckly I've kept a paper version

I've got several written prof of the back and forth.

offer
acceptance
communication
new offer
counter-offer
not acceptance
my acceptance of his conditions
no offer anymore

odd, to say the least.
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Old 06.05.2015, 01:12
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Re: Being offered a job and now my future ex boss changed his mind. Valid?

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As salary was not mentioned, and he was aware of my current salary, I thought it was an internal transfer with the same contract details.

The future boss then invited for a meeting to try to push the lower salary, I didn't signed anything and asked for a written offer. He has downgraded the original job description to justify the decrease. I've kept both. (Strangely the original e-mail with the first offer disappeared from my mail box, luckly I've kept a paper version

I've got several written prof of the back and forth.

offer
acceptance
communication
new offer
counter-offer
not acceptance
my acceptance of his conditions
no offer anymore

odd, to say the least.
The only thing that matters is how long is your notice period? & have you been given notice? everything else is irrelevant to be honest.
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Old 06.05.2015, 01:29
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Re: Being offered a job and now my future ex boss changed his mind. Valid?

you are right! so right! But I have been to the doctor today, because I have very bad headaches and couldn't make sense of the situation. But he asked about reasons for those headaches and he says that if I don't fight, it would be bad for my self-image, as I generally have a tendency to avoid conflict, I'm looking for enough ground to fight. I just want to inform myself nd then make an educated decision.

I left the doctor with no prescription but a lawyer's phone number

I hate lawyers, the only time I asked them to work on a contract, they charged for giving less valuable advise than the life saving tips I get in this forum. They need 3 hours just to understand your problem, at your expense, then to say you are better offer finding an agreement - sorry, very much off topic.

I'm current employed at the old position until further notice and will have 3 months notice.

I am already looking at new positions, but my doctor says that the lawyer might help me get justice before I leave: "don't let the bastards grind you down!"
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Old 06.05.2015, 01:52
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Re: Being offered a job and now my future ex boss changed his mind. Valid?

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I'm current employed at the old position until further notice and will have 3 months notice.

I am already looking at new positions, but my doctor says that the lawyer might help me get justice before I leave: "don't let the bastards grind you down!"
I think your Dr is giving extremely bad advise. You will never get 'Justice' whatever you believe that to mean, whats more important is a good work certificate if you wish to work in CH. A Swiss employer will never hire you if you take your employer to court, it's a small country, they will find out your more trouble than your worth.

Just carry on in your current job until you find something better.
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Old 06.05.2015, 01:54
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Re: Being offered a job and now my future ex boss changed his mind. Valid?

I'm glad I heard those views, doctors don't need certificates, its a different world.
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Old 06.05.2015, 01:55
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Re: Being offered a job and now my future ex boss changed his mind. Valid?

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(Strangely the original e-mail with the first offer disappeared from my mail box, luckly I've kept a paper version


If the email has disappeared from your inbox, this can mean two things:


1) sender has recalled an email. I am not sure if this is technically possible in your exact ase (it depends on the email system)


2) someone has gone into your emails and deleted it (possibly your boss has asked admin to do it). This is serious breach of privacy, and it is punishable by Swiss law very harshly. Noone is allowed to monitor, read, or tamper with your email at workplace. I would consult a lawyer about this.




"If the employer does not observe the legal requirements for the surveillance of the internet and e-mail use, the employee can challenge the interference as an unlawful privacy violation as well as on the basis of violations of employment law (e.g. abusive notice of termination) before the court, can request a declaratory judgment of the illegality and – where applicable – ask for compensation. In case of a violation of secrecy or privacy or an unlawful gathering of personal data, this can
also lead to a criminal prosecution of the employer."
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Old 06.05.2015, 02:00
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Re: Being offered a job and now my future ex boss changed his mind. Valid?

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A Swiss employer will never hire you if you take your employer to court, it's a small country, they will find out your more trouble than your worth.
Absolutely not true. I know several people who fought successfully their employers (and their illegal and/or abusive practices), got the justice, and then found new job happily.

Luckily, Switzerland is the country where law is above individual employers and illegal HR practices.
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Old 06.05.2015, 02:10
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Re: Being offered a job and now my future ex boss changed his mind. Valid?

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As salary was not mentioned, and he was aware of my current salary, I thought it was an internal transfer with the same contract details.
So you talked about a job, got a contract and accepted it without discussing money..... oops

After the contract was signed, you discussed money with the boss and it is less than you expected.... but if that the 1st money discussion how do you know that it not what he had in mind all along?

Just because you have moved internally does not automatically mean your salary would remain the same, it would be commensurate with the new job. If the job spec has changed before you started, I'm not sure that there is anything a lawyer could do as technically the new contract hasn't started... and you had never discussed salary before signing anyway. So sorry to say it, but it sounds like you have got yourself into a bit of a pickle.
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Old 06.05.2015, 05:36
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Re: Being offered a job and now my future ex boss changed his mind. Valid?

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So you talked about a job, got a contract and accepted it without discussing money..... oops
Common, that's not exactly what happened - she was offered an internal transfer. Every company I have ever worked at had a simple rule: you will not earn less. On the flip side do I also know so large Swiss banks having the rule that you cannot be offered more if you transfer internally... (which is the very reason why so many switch from one bank to the other and back...)

I think it's a fair assumption that if a line manager in your company knows your salary, offers you a position and nothing else is said you simply continue to get your salary as is. For internal transfers do you typically not even sign a new contract, but get a one-pager saying PapaGoose will from date x on change to the position of y working in department z.

Bottom line: OP, don't get a lawyer yet. You are morally right, but going to court is an absolute last resort. I'd suggest to try a couple of other things first and only if nothing helps get legal help.

You sound like you are at the point that the bridge with the new guy is burned(?). If yes, escalate it:
1. Talk to your current line manager and discuss the case openly with him. Maybe he wants you back? No need to be ashamed of quitting on him before - openly tell him why you wanted the other position and that you now want your old one back as he might have the less appealing job but clearly is the better manager... trust me, this works with a lot of people...
2. Talk to the new guys superior. Even if you decided to not work for the new guy anymore, he should know. I am heading a department and I really would want to know if my team leaders cock stuff up like this...
3. Make a formal complaint to HR. Not the person who probably sit there with you and the new guy discussing the salary, but whoever the highest HR manager is you can get a hold of. In any decent company did your future ex boss break an entire bunch of policies (that's not necessarily Swiss law, but internal company policies)... no company HR wants managers to poach each others employees to only alienate them with ridiculous behavior afterwards.
4. If absolutely nothing else worked - go one level higher and write to your department head or depending the size of the company CEO directly and express how you did a good job in the past, identify yourself with the company and were super motivated to get an internal transfer - only to be forced to leave if no solution is found.

Bottom line: I do not agree with some of the others here that it's your fault that you did not sign something - I think this is standard practice in large companies. Make a fuzz about it and think your options through:
- go back to the old job? Yes, it has been communicated that you'd change... but do they have a replacement yet? I know it makes you feel a bit embarrassed to your peers and old boss, but honestly: the other manager screwed it up and well... shit happens.
- it's certainly not a good to start with the new boss, but well: maybe if he gets a bit of a dressing down from the top HR on how he behaved things can be fixed. I know first impressions are important, but well - all those alleged budget reasons are things that can be adapted and fixed a level higher.
- other jobs availabe in your company?
Only if nothing of this works out I'd leave. I would not sign a contract with a lower salary: It will affect you worse than leaving - if you earn less will you for example also get less unemployment benefits if you decide to leave later.
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Old 06.05.2015, 09:04
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Re: Being offered a job and now my future ex boss changed his mind. Valid?



But I'd suggest it might be a good idea to talk to a lawyer anyway - not with a view to take your employer to court, but simply to find out what your legal position is.
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Old 06.05.2015, 10:08
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Re: Being offered a job and now my future ex boss changed his mind. Valid?

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I think it's a fair assumption that if a line manager in your company knows your salary, offers you a position and nothing else is said you simply continue to get your salary as is. For internal transfers do you typically not even sign a new contract, but get a one-pager saying PapaGoose will from date x on change to the position of y working in department z.
It's assuming that seems to be the core of the problem here Trev'

I personally know a number of people who have made internal moves here and none have done so without full disclosure and understanding on both sides, and a fundamental part is remuneration for the new role. Some have had salary increases due to additional responsibilities, some were lateral moves with similar responsibilities and the salary was static, 1 was a even step down to a lesser role and salary to facilitate a change career direction. So I would say that there is no definitive rule on salary for an elective move and it is controlled by job description, and had a conversation been had before a contract signed both parties expectations on salary would have been known.

I have checked the paperwork that my wife has for her internal moves here (3 of), and aside from due diligence and the verbal discussions that fully established expectations during the hiring process, she received an offer which she and the new line manager had to sign, and after they had signed a space for HR to sign, which included:
- That it was an amendment to her existing contract (for pension continuity etc)
- Agreed date new role was to start (Period to allow her old position to be backfilled, a hand over done, and transition to the new role)
- Agreed job title with a copy of the job description (as always a strap line to say this could change)
- Remuneration
- Location (work is global so to establish base)
- Line manager (who is currently...)

The problem here is salary expectations were not clearly defined before a contract was signed, but the OP signed anyway on her presumption as the op admits salary was never discussed beforehand. When she found out it was less than she thought she is unhappy..... where does the fault lie?

I've hired and been hired and never ever has the 3 R's (Role, Responsibilities and Remuneration) not been fundamental and mutually agreed during the hiring process. I don't know enough about the legalities to finger point, especially with regard to missing emails etc but that sounds a highly suspect and serious thing to to have happened.

The thread title states "the boss changed his mind" would indicate the OP was told a higher salary before signing which was lowered after signing which is bad practice. However, as they admit salary was only discussed after the fact, and they have now found out it's less that their current salary, covering it before hand would have given them the option to reject the offer or negotiate something more acceptable. Sadly that didn't happen form what they have written. There is a responsibility on both side to ensure exactly what the T&C's are to avoid the stress of things like this, and I think the is shared liability for the situation as it stands.
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Old 06.05.2015, 10:39
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Re: Being offered a job and now my future ex boss changed his mind. Valid?

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The problem here is salary expectations were not clearly defined before a contract was signed, but the OP signed anyway on her presumption as the op admits salary was never discussed beforehand. When she found out it was less than she thought she is unhappy..... where does the fault lie?
Did she sign the contract though? She said she has accepted the transfer offer but nowhere does she say that she actually signed the contract. I believe from reading all her posts that she verbally accepted the transfer but did not sign the contract once the salary and conditions etc were outlined to her.

After rejecting her counter offer the potential new boss has now said that the new job is no longer available to her and all offers have been withdrawn.

It would be incredibly stupid of anyone to sign a contract without first going through all the details.
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Old 06.05.2015, 10:46
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Re: Being offered a job and now my future ex boss changed his mind. Valid?

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I hate lawyers, the only time I asked them to work on a contract, they charged for giving less valuable advise than the life saving tips I get in this forum. They need 3 hours just to understand your problem, at your expense, then to say you are better offer finding an agreement - sorry, very much off topic.
Interesting attitude. You do understand that some lawyers are giving advise here on the forum ? Don't be too surprised in case you don't get any feedback from any of them.
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Old 06.05.2015, 10:50
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Re: Being offered a job and now my future ex boss changed his mind. Valid?

Why don't you stay doing your current job??
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