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Old 15.05.2015, 11:53
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cleaning lady - first time - contract questions

Hello E.F.

I'd like to hire a cleaning lady for cleaning and maybe ironing twice a months, but of course the first time I want to try maybe a couple of candidates so I am not sure what should I do about the contract.

I have another question: is it more convenient hire somebody and do the contract or just ask a cleaning services so I don't have to take care of the contract.

Let me know your experice so far.

thank you
Ele
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Old 15.05.2015, 12:01
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Re: cleaning lady - first time - contract questions

You must pay the lady the minimum wage (Is it Fr 25,- per hour?) plus the AHV if she works more than 8 hours per week with you. You should also have employee insurance.

It is easier to simply engage a cleaning company, but a bit more expensive.
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Old 15.05.2015, 12:11
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Re: cleaning lady - first time - contract questions

Contract means you are going to pay full price (incl. all insurances and social contributions etc....). We mandated an agency that does this and we are very satisfied, it's important that the cleaning lady gets proper insurance and social coverage. It's pricey but that's how you get peace of mind.
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Old 31.07.2015, 11:10
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Re: cleaning lady - first time - contract questions

Hello,
We are evaluating hiring a cleaning lady and the number of hours will be less than 8 hours per week. as per an earlier post in this thread, is it correct that we just pay her the hourly agreed rate for the number of hours she works for us? is it still needed that we pay her insurance, AHV etc...

2nd question is what kind of written contact should be done for hiring somebody for less than 8 hours a week? this is only to confirm the agreed rate, agreed hours per week, dates of payment and agreed tasks of cleaning.

cheers
happycreature
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Old 31.07.2015, 11:22
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Re: cleaning lady - first time - contract questions

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You must pay the lady the minimum wage (Is it Fr 25,- per hour?) plus the AHV if she works more than 8 hours per week with you. You should also have employee insurance.

It is easier to simply engage a cleaning company, but a bit more expensive.
Their is no "minimum wage" in Zurich !
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Old 31.07.2015, 11:50
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Re: cleaning lady - first time - contract questions

For cases like these, I recommend quitt.ch. They help you with the contract and all the needed administrative tasks, so you know everything is on the up and up. The price is also reasonable.
I have nothing to do with them, apart from being a satisfied customer.
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Old 31.07.2015, 13:34
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Re: cleaning lady - first time - contract questions

This is what we wanted to avoid (paying a company just for managing the contract). I think as long as we maintain a level of trust between the cleaning lady and ourselves, i dont see a need to have a company.

but still we need to have some sort of contract between us and the cleaning lady and my question is about how to word such a contract.
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Old 31.07.2015, 13:38
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Re: cleaning lady - first time - contract questions

Is it true that in Zurich there is no minimum wage?

According to this
http://www.unia.ch/uploads/media/Fal...haft_en_01.pdf

"All domestic staff working more than 5 hours a week in a private household are entitled to the minimum wage."

Please correct me if I have understood wrong!
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Old 31.07.2015, 13:55
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Re: cleaning lady - first time - contract questions

http://www.seco.admin.ch/aktuell/00277/01164/01980/index.html?lang=de&msg-id=50934

there is a minimum wage.

http://www.seco.admin.ch/aktuell/002...e&msg-id=50934


and you have to pay AHV and insurance as far as I can tell. i thought this was all too much hassle (paying ahv every month etc) and went with an agency but for some that is fine. we have alway been very happy with the agencies.
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Old 31.07.2015, 19:32
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Re: cleaning lady - first time - contract questions

Regardless of no of weekly hours, you still need to register for AHV, deduct the right amount from salary and pay deduction plus your share to AHV account. Then you need to register for UVG and pay that as well. Thats the service quitt.ch offers to take care for you for a reasonable fee. But sure, go ahead and do it yourself. Have fun!

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This is what we wanted to avoid (paying a company just for managing the contract). I think as long as we maintain a level of trust between the cleaning lady and ourselves, i dont see a need to have a company.

but still we need to have some sort of contract between us and the cleaning lady and my question is about how to word such a contract.
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  #11  
Old 27.08.2015, 17:00
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Re: cleaning lady - first time - contract questions

Thanks for that link LiquidPaper! (What happened to the 'thanks' button???) Im currently looking to hire domestic help and this is exactly the solution I was looking for
I just did the calculations and using these guys is in my case just as expensive per hour as doing everything yourself (even slightly cheaper) - the savings come from a much cheaper accident insurance (you normally pay 100CHF/yr, they charge 0.6% of the salary). They will set up the contract, pay all social contributions for you and take care of insurance and salary statements if necessary. The contract is still between you and your cleaning lady. If she gets 25/hr net, I pay 33 all included (including her contributions & taxes). This is more than she would get and less than I would pay at an agency.
If you want to do all yourself, here are example contracts that will prevent you from having to pay her salary for up to two years if she gets sick (reference to the obligationenrecht is essential): https://www.ktipp.ch/artikel/d/grati...en-uebersetzt/

Last edited by mgosia; 27.08.2015 at 17:39. Reason: Adding rate example
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Old 27.08.2015, 19:10
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Re: cleaning lady - first time - contract questions

we have used
http://www.maschinenringe.ch/
and
http://www.haushaltshilfen24.ch/
and have been very happy with them. I would rather have peace of mind knowing everything is done by the book because if I did it myself I would surely make a mess of it...not just the cleaning
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Old 27.08.2015, 19:28
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Re: cleaning lady - first time - contract questions

Swiss government "Domestic Work" brochure (in English). Looks useful:

https://www.ahv-iv.ch/p/2.06.e
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Old 31.08.2015, 19:05
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Re: cleaning lady - first time - contract questions

OOPS sorry, I was to enthousiastic - doing everything myself would cost only 31,4 CHF per hour, still I think a 5-10% surcharge is very reasonable for such a service.
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Old 31.08.2015, 19:15
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Re: cleaning lady - first time - contract questions

Quote:
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Hello E.F.

I'd like to hire a cleaning lady for cleaning and maybe ironing twice a months, but of course the first time I want to try maybe a couple of candidates so I am not sure what should I do about the contract.

I have another question: is it more convenient hire somebody and do the contract or just ask a cleaning services so I don't have to take care of the contract.

Let me know your experice so far.

thank you
Ele
I came across the following advert today, and found it very interesting.
Please let me know if you make any pos/neg experiences:

https://www.bookatiger.com/ch-de/putzfrau/zuerich
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Old 23.09.2015, 19:42
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Re: cleaning lady - first time - contract questions

There is no legislated minimum wage in Switzerland. This was put to vote on 18th May 2014, and the result was a very definite “no”. https://www.admin.ch/ch/d/pore/va/20140518/index.html

However, for cleaners, and some other workers, there is a so-called “Normarbeitsvertrag”, (norm employment contract), known as NAV, but in the link about the NAV, provided by Banadol, you can see that the wages cited therein are un-liveable low, so as to have no real-life bearing on an employment contract in a private home in Zurich, where the going rate is at least Fr. 25, and for an employee who is known and trusted, around Fr. 30 or Fr. 35 per hour.

The employer must specify, in the contract, a basic wage. On top of that, four weeks paid vacation are compulsory, and by law, at least two of those weeks must be taken together. So that there’s not a lot of calculating about loss of earnings when the employer is away, when the employee needs to travel, etc., it can, in practice, sometimes be simpler to specify 6 weeks’ paid vacation, from the start.

In practice, most small employers do not pay their staff while they are away, but simply pay out a holiday allowance proportionately, spread over the hourly wages. It is a good idea to point out to the employee that she/he is receiving a part of their vacation pay each month, and therefore has the responsibility to save for her/his own vacation. The contract can therefore include a clause specifying that there will be no further bonuses or surcharges or 13th monthly salary.

The contract, the weekly/monthly wage-slip, and the wage statement at the end of the tax year (31st December) must specify the two amounts (basic wage and the amount for paid vacation) separately.

The employer must also buy accident insurance for the employee. This is obligatory, and if the employer does not fulfil this requirement, and the employee has an accident, then the employer is bound to cover all the costs, which can be horrendous.

For employees who work for less than 8 hours per week:
the employer must provide “Berufsunfallversicherung” (work accident insurance), known as BU, which covers all costs of any accident occurring while the employee is working, and on her/his direct journey from home to work and work to home.
For employees who work 8 hours or more per week:
the employer must provide “Nicht-Berufsunfallversicherung” as well (accident insurance for non-work situations), known as NBU, so that the employee is covered for any kind of accident at all.

The BU can be bought, typically, for Fr. 100 per annum for several part-time employees, in a so-called “Putzfrauversicherung” (cleaning woman’s insurance) policy. If any of your staff members is male, you need to specify this to the insurance company. If you get out of the range of one or two cleaners for a few hours a week, you need to check with the insurance company that the policy still suffices.

Oddly, the costs of the BU must be borne by the employer, while the costs of the NBU may – but need not – be passed on to the employee.

The employer and the employee each pay half of
• the contribution to the “Alters- und Hinterlassenenversicherung” / “Invalidenversicherung", known as AHV-Beiträge (social security contributions for old age and disability pensions), and
• the contributions to the “Arbeitslosenversicherung”, known as ALV (unemployment insurance).

The employer bears the full administrative charges of the AHV, for registering the employee.

A typical calculation could be as follows: (sorry if the tabs don't work here)
for take-home pay of Fr. 25 per hour
Basic wage Fr. 23.59
Holiday allowance 13.04% (6 Wochen) Fr. 3.08
Gross wage Fr. 26.67
AHV/IV/EO 5.15% (employee’s share) Fr. 1.37
ALV 1.10% (employee’s share) Fr. 0.29
Nett wage (= paid out per hour) Fr. 25.00

for take-home pay of Fr. 30 per hour
Basic wage Fr. 28.31
Holiday allowance 13.04% (6 Wochen) Fr. 3.69
Gross wage Fr. 32.00
AHV/IV/EO 5.15% (employee’s share) Fr. 1.65
ALV 1.10% (employee’s share) Fr. 0.35
Nett wage (= paid out per hour) Fr. 30.00


The steps are:
1. Draw up the draft contract
2. Agree on the terms with the employee
3. Get copies of her/his ID, AHV-Number, address and bank details.
4. Insert them into the definite contract
5. Go through the contract with the employee, and both sign and date it
6. Take out an accident insurance policy for the employee, e.g. with www.mobiliar.ch
7. Register the employee with the AHV office. The AHV will ask for an estimated annual wage, and charge the employer the anticipated contribution due, and square up at the end of the year, when the real figures are in.
8. Keep a time-sheet of hours worked on which days/dates.
9. At the start of each month, transfer the relevant amount to the employee, for the previous month.
10. At the end of the tax year (31st December) provide the employee with a form specifying her/his annual earnings. If she /he is Swiss, or is married to a Swiss person, or has a C-Permit, then this form will be needed for her/his tax form. (Aside: If the employee has less than a C-Permit, you also need to deduce source tax, but that’s a topic for another post.)
11. On the basis of this, square up with the AHV.

This may all sound like a lot of finicky detail, but it is worth doing it right. Not only is it plain illegal to omit these insurance steps, (i.e. cash into the palm of the hand, with no contract and no record of payment, is strictly prohibited), but it is also wholly unfair to the “little fish” who, if left without proper cover, could fall on really hard times. So, please do it right. Thanks.
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Old 08.11.2015, 14:54
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Re: cleaning lady - first time - contract questions

This is exactly what i was looking for. Thank you.
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Old 08.11.2015, 15:01
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Re: cleaning lady - first time - contract questions

My pleasure, edot.
Did you see that cinzia_t also set out her instructions, in 2009, here?
How to legally employ a cleaning lady
I had not seen that, when I wrote up my list.

I totally agree with cinzia_t that one should do the right thing by a cleaner. After all, by and large, those who can afford to pay for a cleaner are, in some way, better off than the cleaner who, for any number of reasons, has probably had fewer opportunities in life, and should therefore at the very least be given her legal right to proper insurance cover against illness, accident and old-age.
Thank you, edot.
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Old 08.11.2015, 15:12
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Re: cleaning lady - first time - contract questions

Yes, exactly. I signed up with quitt, but it was just not clear how one might factor in vacation. And also, i am assuming that i pay both employer and employee contributions at the end of the year. (I signed up for low cost quitt, once i get the bits, it's easy to keep track).
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