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Old 22.06.2015, 11:36
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Nanny's salary during family vacation

Our Nanny has 4 weeks vacation every year.
This year she has used up all her holidays.
Zero days left.
--
She gets a monthly wage.
We are going away for 10 days on holidays without her in July.
So she will be in Zurich alone with no work.
--

What are the options in this case:-
Eg., can we ask her to make up the 10 days with overtime??
What happens if she asks for more holiday in August?

What is reasonable in this case?
Suggestions/comments welcome
Many thanks
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Old 22.06.2015, 11:41
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Re: Nanny's salary during family vacation

Reasonable is that she works the 10 days in July, even though the house is empty.
All other options are unreasonable as you should have planned this in advance. It is not her mistake.
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Old 22.06.2015, 11:41
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Re: Nanny's salary during family vacation

typically in CH an employer can determine when an employee can take vacations.
In other words, an employee can ask for vacation during certain period, but employer may override that.

I would think that you can find some agreement with your nanny. You had no obligation to give her vacation days when it was not convenient for you (but you did, which is nice). On the other hand, since you have already agreed on her holidays (and she spent her vacation), then there are working days while you don't necessarily need it.
I guess you can find some amicable solution that is good for both.
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Old 22.06.2015, 11:44
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Re: Nanny's salary during family vacation

If she asks for more holidays, then just just can't have them as she has used up her allowance. But if you haven't insisted that your Summer hols have to be coordinated, it's hardly her fault- so you will have to pay her for when you are away. You need to tighten your contract for the future. Our daugher and sil's contract says nanny can choose 2 weeks out of the year, and has to coordinate the other 2 with them during Summer break.
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Old 22.06.2015, 11:45
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Re: Nanny's salary during family vacation

Any option that doesn't include paying her in full for the ten days is not reasonable.
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Old 22.06.2015, 11:52
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Reasonable is that she works the 10 days in July, even though the house is empty.
All other options are unreasonable as you should have planned this in advance. It is not her mistake.
This trip was booked 16th April.
No it wasn't a mistake.

This isn't a fight.
It's about finding a solution.

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If she asks for more holidays, then just just can't have them as she has used up her allowance. But if you haven't insisted that your Summer hols have to be coordinated, it's hardly her fault- so you will have to pay her for when you are away. You need to tighten your contract for the future. Our daugher and sil's contract says nanny can choose 2 weeks out of the year, and has to coordinate the other 2 with them during Summer break.
--
Last year she planned all her vacation by herself,
So this year we agreed that we (the family) would have priority.
Unfortunately the nanny booked holidays and told us after the booking.
So we never got any input to her vacation.
And now it's too late

Last edited by 3Wishes; 22.06.2015 at 15:11. Reason: merging consecutive replies
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Old 22.06.2015, 12:07
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Re: Nanny's salary during family vacation

Same happened with our daughter and the last nanny- they had no choice but to pay her- but they sacked her for not sticking to the agreement (which was written in her contract- is it in yours?)- and as she was generally slacking, anyhow.

After the first holiday she booked without your agreement, you should have ensured all is in writing, as the employer, sorry to say.
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Old 22.06.2015, 12:11
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Re: Nanny's salary during family vacation

If you told her there would be a set period when she has to take holidays I think that is OK, as long as you made it completely clear. Many companies have an official shutdown period.

On the other hand, I'm assuming she is young and probably not disciplined in this sort of thing so some leeway may be reasonable.

Has she suggested any options? Maybe do it as overtime credit, or one week unpaid and one week credit. Do you give her a bonus normally - maybe she gets her 13th month early as time off, but with a clear "never again" message?

You don't make it clear if the four weeks she has booked have already passed? If so, she has totally miscalculated anyway and I'm surprised you didn't raise it with her.

In terms of getting more vacation - you need to discuss with her; assuming you want her to stay (other than poor planning she's a good nanny?) solutions could include overtime to make up vacation time, unpaid vacation, or just saying no.
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Old 22.06.2015, 12:24
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Re: Nanny's salary during family vacation

Firstly, an employee has a right to their holidays of which two weeks must be taken consecutively. HOWEVER, it is at the employer's discretion when these holidays are to be taken:

Quote:
Code of Obligation Art. 329c
2 The employer determines the timing of holidays taking due account of the employee's wishes to the extent these are compatible with the interests of the business or household.
You should have - and certainly should now - made this clear when your nanny informed you of her holiday plans. Your holidays would be categorised as "Betreibsferien" in other words, provided you gave 3 months notice, she would have to take her holidays when you are away. Thereby avoiding this "mess".

Now, you are faced with a sitatuation (the nanny back home for 10 days with no holiday days left) due to your "mismangement". Therefore, I would suggest you make sure she has plenty of tasks to do in the home during that time. You cannot make her to take unpaid leave.

If you are not happy with this situation you could terminate the contract with the usual time periods. Keep in mind, that she would then not have worked a full calendar year with you and is therefore no longer entitled to the full 4 weeks of holiday she has already taken.
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Old 22.06.2015, 12:26
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Re: Nanny's salary during family vacation

Please note:she is a great nanny-
we have no intention of sacking her!!
We intend to keep her.
--
The 4 weeks vacation have already passed. She has used them all.
But she is also planning 1 week in September !

I was hoping to exchange her September vacation for ours?

Our contract is not clear at all.
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Old 22.06.2015, 12:28
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Hang on... How is this the nannies fault?

She has 4 weeks leave which you have to approve, yes?

So she applies for four weeks and you let her take them. It doesn't matter if she booked her holiday before getting the leave approved. You should have said, she has to take 2 weeks in August and you'll approve two others of her choice. Or if she wanted more, tell her she'd have to take them unpaid.

But you can't approve her 4 weeks leave AND THEN say, actually we wanted you to take two of those weeks in August, so now we won't pay you when we are away. You are her boss, you need to be clear at the start of the year when she can and can't take holidays.

And if she wants another week in September, you should have already said no, she has no holidays left.

Last edited by 3Wishes; 22.06.2015 at 15:12. Reason: merging consecutive replies
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Old 22.06.2015, 12:32
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Re: Nanny's salary during family vacation

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Please note:she is a great nanny-
we have no intention of sacking her!!
We intend to keep her.
--
The 4 weeks vacation have already passed. She has used them all.
But she is also planning 1 week in September !

I was hoping to exchange her September vacation for ours?

Our contract is not clear at all.
If not stipulated otherwise the standard holidays set out in the code of obligations apply. Ergo your nanny has 4 weeks pro rata per year. She has used them up. If she wants more than either it is to compensate overtime OR unpaid leave.

Alternatively, you tell her she can't take more holiday this year. Or you can let her do whatever she would like, in which case I don't think anyone here can help you. If that is what you are happy with negotiate with her and see if she'll take her extra bonus holiday while you're away..
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Old 22.06.2015, 12:36
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Re: Nanny's salary during family vacation

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Our contract is not clear at all.
That is why the law stipulates the default:

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Firstly, an employee has a right to their holidays of which two weeks must be taken consecutively. HOWEVER, it is at the employer's discretion when these holidays are to be taken:

Quote:
Code of Obligation Art. 329c
2 The employer determines the timing of holidays taking due account of the employee's wishes to the extent these are compatible with the interests of the business or household.
That she booked before she got approval would have been her problem.
That you approved but did not plan for your own holiday is now your problem. You have to fix the mess.
Maybe paying for her rebooking is the cheapest option.
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Old 22.06.2015, 12:36
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Re: Nanny's salary during family vacation

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Our contract is not clear at all.
And therein lies the problem. After the first year you should have made everything clear in writing and then you could have avoided this situation.

Obviously you are well within your rights to refuse here request for vacation time in September as she has used up all her allowance for this year. Even if you allow it she would have to take it as unpaid vacation. It's not very professional of her to arrange extra vacation in any case and I would be seriously questioning whether I wanted to keep her on.


As things stand due to your lack of planning and foresight you will have to pay her for the 10 days you will be away in July unless you can come to some kind of amicable arrangement with her.
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Old 22.06.2015, 12:46
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Re: Nanny's salary during family vacation

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If not stipulated otherwise the standard holidays set out in the code of obligations apply. Ergo ...


That's true for most jobs, but aren't household workers (Heimarbeitnehmer) specifically exempted?
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Old 22.06.2015, 12:51
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Re: Nanny's salary during family vacation

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Hang on... How is this the nannies fault?


But you can't approve her 4 weeks leave AND THEN say, actually we wanted you to take two of those weeks in August, so now we won't pay you when we are away. You are her boss, you need to be clear at the start of the year when she can and can't take holidays.
I never said its "her" fault!
Why are you blaming anyone??!!
--
I never said we aren't going to pay her!!
Can you please read without getting all excited.
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Old 22.06.2015, 13:07
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Re: Nanny's salary during family vacation

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That's true for most jobs, but aren't household workers (Heimarbeitnehmer) specifically exempted?
"Heimarbeitnehmer" is someone who is obligated to conduct work for their employer in their own home. Not in the employers home.

You are right however, that there is a Normalarbeitsvertrag für hauswirtschaftliche Arbeitnehmer (NAV). And that one does indeed stipulate different holidays - my mistake. It would appear the majority Kantons provide for 5 weeks of holidays (more if the employee is over 60). On a federal level it appears that only the minimum hourly wage is "fixed".

Ergo - OP don't approve the requested holiday in September, make her take your holiday as her final week as it appears she has 1 more week of holidays left. Problem solved.

(The NAV in German in Zurich: http://www.google.ch/url?sa=t&rct=j&...96339352,d.bGQ)
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Old 22.06.2015, 13:31
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Re: Nanny's salary during family vacation

I am a little confused - when you say your vacation is 10 days, do you mean 10 business days or 10 calendar days? Is she willing to take that time off unpaid, and if so, are you ok with that solution? To me it seems like the September time off is something that you have to deal with separately from this situation - are you able to get by without her if she is off for the week?

Since it appears you like her and want to keep her, an amicable solution should be sought - have you asked her what she proposes? Maybe she is ok with accruing overtime to make up for missed hours. I have no idea if all that is above board and legal.

Is your contract with her yearly from Jan - Dec? I would guess at the next chance you get, adding wording about vacation and when it can be taken will be useful for you going forward. Sometimes we have to learn these lessons in life with a bit of financial pain. I call them my costs for "continuing education" - just this tuition isn't paid to an institution of higher learning
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Old 22.06.2015, 14:15
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Re: Nanny's salary during family vacation

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--
Last year she planned all her vacation by herself,
So this year we agreed that we (the family) would have priority.
Unfortunately the nanny booked holidays and told us after the booking.
So we never got any input to her vacation.
And now it's too late
IIRC, if she is required to ask/confirm holidays first, and didn't do so, then the cost of her holiday is on her if you do not approve the holiday request.

If you approve the holiday request, then change plans, you can cancel the holiday BUT the costs are on you.

So which is it? Did she request the holiday first? And if not, is it in your agreement that she do so?

If it isn't then, I would suggest a written request (aka warning) that she follow the terms of her agreement in future.

Do such things in writing in future.

If you don't have such an agreement, then you are stuck with paying her during this period. But as mentioned above, set the record straight moving forward (assuming you want to keep her).

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And if she wants another week in September, you should have already said no, she has no holidays left.
Unpaid leave...
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Old 22.06.2015, 14:19
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Re: Nanny's salary during family vacation

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Ergo - OP don't approve the requested holiday in September, make her take your holiday as her final week as it appears she has 1 more week of holidays left. Problem solved.

(The NAV in German in Zurich: http://www.google.ch/url?sa=t&rct=j&...96339352,d.bGQ)
She has ZERO days vacation left.
But we prefer to be amicable, so we can be flexible and allow another 5 days in September.

I was looking for options:-
Thinking outside the box,
Win-win solutions, etc.
--
Lawyer /contract solutions/termination of contract are not valid options.
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