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Old 01.07.2015, 22:18
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Unpaid AHV and salary.

Could someone with legal knowledge or experience help us out here. My husband took a job with an Austrian company that had set up a ‘business entity' in Switzerland. After eight months of employment they stopped paying his salary then liquidated the company on the same day they sacked him. The company in liquidation has no funds.

The company not only failed to pay his salary in the final months but failed to pay his AHV insurance even though it was deducted, for the whole period of his employment contract.

Situation now;
The AHV are now chasing us for the payments.
Need to settle AHV payments to get support in other ways, e.g. reduction of health insurance. Checked this with the tax office today!
We’ve been told that its up to the employee to contact the employer for money and it is ultimately the responsibility of the employee to pay the AHV.
With hindsight should have sent Betreibung each month but was giving benefit of doubt to sort out financial problems. Not in a position now to fork out CHF10k+ to get a court ruling on a foreign company.
We’ve been told that we’d have to be on social support to get legal help. Is this right?

Generally what are the employee's rights or protection in this situation?

Thanks!
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Old 01.07.2015, 22:42
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Re: Unpaid AHV and salary.

If the company has been dissolved there isn't much you can do now, except pay the AHV the missing contributions.

Maybe the Gemeinde office where the company was registered can tell you more?

On his last working day he should have gone to the AHV office and asked for their advice.
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Old 01.07.2015, 22:48
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Re: Unpaid AHV and salary.

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Could someone with legal knowledge or experience help us out here. My husband took a job with an Austrian company that had set up a ‘business entity' in Switzerland. After eight months of employment they stopped paying his salary then liquidated the company on the same day they sacked him. The company in liquidation has no funds.

The company not only failed to pay his salary in the final months but failed to pay his AHV insurance even though it was deducted, for the whole period of his employment contract.

Situation now;
The AHV are now chasing us for the payments.
Need to settle AHV payments to get support in other ways, e.g. reduction of health insurance. Checked this with the tax office today!
We’ve been told that its up to the employee to contact the employer for money and it is ultimately the responsibility of the employee to pay the AHV.
With hindsight should have sent Betreibung each month but was giving benefit of doubt to sort out financial problems. Not in a position now to fork out CHF10k+ to get a court ruling on a foreign company.
We’ve been told that we’d have to be on social support to get legal help. Is this right?

Generally what are the employee's rights or protection in this situation?

Thanks!
Was the AHV paid at least during the months when the salary was paid or nothing at all, ever?
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Old 01.07.2015, 23:22
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Re: Unpaid AHV and salary.

Nothing at all, ever. He had it deducted from his salary each month so it was assumed they were paying it when they paid his salary.
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Old 01.07.2015, 23:30
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Re: Unpaid AHV and salary.

Unpaid salary for 3 months , AHV & pension payments should be insured & therefore paid by the insurance. This happened to me & it got sorted eventually.
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Old 01.07.2015, 23:42
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Re: Unpaid AHV and salary.

Were you insured for the three months your salary wasn't payed or is that the maximum amount of months you're insured for? Also, who sorted it out, AHV? Thanks!
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Old 01.07.2015, 23:42
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Re: Unpaid AHV and salary.

"Gaps in AHV contribution

Closing gaps in (AHV) contributions
You can close gaps by paying the missing contributions. This is only possible, however, for gaps in periods during which you were insured in Switzerland and which occurred in the last five years. It is not possible to make up for missed payments from an earlier date.

If there are gaps in contributions due to your employer’s failure to pay contributions to the compensation office, you must be able to prove that you did indeed work and that your employer deducted the AHV contributions from your wages during the period concerned. If the proof is accurate, the missing contributions will be credited to your account, even if the pension fund office is unable to collect the contributions from your former employer.

What you need to do once you know you have gaps in AHV contributions
Contact the compensation office that was responsible for collecting your contributions when the gaps occurred, or the compensation office that currently collects your contributions. You will need to provide documents (e.g. salary certificates and statements), as proof of your salary."

https://www.ch.ch/en/gaps-contribution/
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Old 02.07.2015, 09:03
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Re: Unpaid AHV and salary.

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Unpaid salary for 3 months , AHV & pension payments should be insured & therefore paid by the insurance. This happened to me & it got sorted eventually.
To me to. You can claim the last 3 months salary from the RAV in the canton the company was registered and this comes under 'insolvenz versicherung' or Bankruptcy insurance'. The AHV and other contributions will come directly out of the payment to you by them in the end but you must get your claim in within (I think) 60 days from the Bankruptcy declaration notice in the local paper. Contact them and get them to send the form you have to fill out and send your contract with these, don't delay or you will miss the deadline and 1) not get your salary 2) have to pay the AHV contributions yourself .

Note: The responsibility of AHV contributions of the employee by the employer actually will end up as an obligation of the CEO of the company (to pay) if the contributions have not been paid.
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Old 02.07.2015, 09:29
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Re: Unpaid AHV and salary.

It's despicable what that company did, - I'm sorry to hear that this happened to you.

There will definitely be gaps (presumably one eight month gap) in the contributions because of what has happened.

I assume you have now received a bill for the period/gap in question. If that bill is too much for you to pay, or you don't feel like paying such a large amount for pension contributions at this time you can request something called a Herabsetzungsgesuch. This, if accepted, will lower or cancel the bill altogether. It may or may not be a solution for you if can't resolve it any other way as outlined by the others here n the forum. A Herabsetzungsgesuch is free and stops the Rechung-Mahnung-Inkasso-process and you do not have to pay anything until they decide if your Gesuch is granted. This can take up to and sometimes a little over one year.
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Old 02.07.2015, 13:31
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Re: Unpaid AHV and salary.

I forgot to mention that the konkursamt (bankruptcy/notariat office in same canton) should issue you with a document verifying your unpaid salary amounts which you will also need for the RAV...contact them to ask if this has been done and when can they send the letter of proof, ask nicely and they might speed up the process.

I just remembered also that you can download and print the form online to save time, then send it off with a copy of your contract and copy of konkursamt letter of proof. If you give me the name of the Canton in which he worked I will give you the links to print the documents. I know it's a bit of a grind to do all of this but I made a claim with which I thought I would only get about 8,000 CHF after deductions and I ended up getting 22,000 CHF in total after deductions as I didn't think I could claim a yearly bonus which (Zurich canton) kindly highlighted when they meticulously went through the claim...

Last edited by Hausamsee; 02.07.2015 at 13:44.
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Old 26.11.2015, 10:41
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Re: Unpaid AHV and salary.

Happened to me too but I kept getting told it is insured. I presume your BVG wasnt getting paid either.
This is a big failing in the swiss tax/ahv collection system. They are very laid back when it comes to collecting Quellensteuer/AHV, and BVG payments. AFAIK a company has 6 months to pay these contributions and this is completely unknown to you as an employee if they don't pay, yet the tax office/AHV will come to you for any non payments. Its crazy.

In my case the AHV was owed over 600K , Zurich BVG 600K + and neither
seemed to give a shit. I found this out from getting the betreibungs list of the comany.
Hope it gets sorted for you
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Old 26.11.2015, 11:27
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Re: Unpaid AHV and salary.

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Happened to me too but I kept getting told it is insured. I presume your BVG wasnt getting paid either.
This is a big failing in the swiss tax/ahv collection system. They are very laid back when it comes to collecting Quellensteuer/AHV, and BVG payments. AFAIK a company has 6 months to pay these contributions and this is completely unknown to you as an employee if they don't pay, yet the tax office/AHV will come to you for any non payments. Its crazy.

In my case the AHV was owed over 600K , Zurich BVG 600K + and neither
seemed to give a shit. I found this out from getting the betreibungs list of the comany.
Hope it gets sorted for you
AHV of 600k seems unlikely..... how many years are we talking 45 ?

You can get a print out from AHV, also pension should send a statement every year. There is no legal liability to pay AHV above approx 86k of salary each year so 600k represents more than 45 years legal pension requirement.
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Old 26.11.2015, 11:30
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Well it wasnt just me obviously - all employees and 600K / 30 is only 20K each.
According to the betreibungs list the AHV just kept fining the comapny and it went on for about 3 years before they started to seize goods

Alst he AHV works 10 months in arrears so any statement they send will only be relevant as from 10 months before the application date - so when your unscrupulous employer decides not to pay you will not have a scoobys

Just for good measure your Dont believe your BVG statement represents actual payments made - it certainly doesnt. Its just a statement of what it should be.
I know from actual experience this is a fact. Looks real enough.

To qualify - how can it - bacause when you get the statement around end of Jan - Deecmbers and a few previous payment will not have been made by the employer (even the honest ones)

Last edited by Ace1; 26.11.2015 at 17:59. Reason: Merging successive posts for easier reading.
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Old 26.11.2015, 11:42
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Re: Unpaid AHV and salary.

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Just for good measure your Dont believe your BVG statement represents actual payments made - it certainly doesnt. Its just a statement of what it should be.
I know from actual experience this is a fact. Looks real enough.

To qualify - how can it - bacause when you get the statement around end of Jan - Deecmbers and a few previous payment will not have been made by the employer (even the honest ones)
Nonsense, I worked for multiple employers, the AHV has no idea who I worked for for 1 day unless they actually pay the contributions.

BVG will show actual payments on date of statement, so will AHV that will be unto 1 year behind.
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Old 26.11.2015, 11:47
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Re: Unpaid AHV and salary.

Well thats the whole point isnt it. As per the OP. They didn't pay the contributions.

As per BVG - reed what I said. Employer only has to pay at 6 monthly intervals in arrears.


Its a matter of simple logic - January follows december 1 month later - every single year since ...


Please restrict your comments to something that you know something about.
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Old 26.11.2015, 11:59
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Re: Unpaid AHV and salary.

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Well thats the whole point isnt it. As per the OP. They didn't pay the contributions.

As per BVG - reed what I said. Employer only has to pay at 6 monthly intervals in arrears.


Its a matter of simple logic - January follows december 1 month later - every single year since ...


Please restrict your comments to something that you know something about.
Having been in this situation I do know what I am talking about, I worked for in excess of 20 companies all paid when they felt like it. Often only 1 payment a year.
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Old 26.11.2015, 12:08
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Re: Unpaid AHV and salary.

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Having been in this situation I do know what I am talking about, I worked for in excess of 20 companies all paid when they felt like it. Often only 1 payment a year.
So you finally agree with me - they pay when they like - so how can it be nonsense that the BVG dtatement is not a statement of payments made.

When a company gets into cash flow problems the easiest thing to do is to stop paying these things and before you know it cash flow turns into bankruptcy/liquidation as per the OP. Leaving the employee the big loser, having to pay the AHV/BVG/QuellenSteuer. All the time the deception has been taking place with the full knowledge of the AHV/BVG/Tax but they dont inform the employee - hmm why not - you got an answer for that?
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Old 26.11.2015, 12:15
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Re: Unpaid AHV and salary.

AHV letter

Dear mr/ms XXXX
Your employer has failed to pay the AHV contributions to us which have most probably been deducted from you salary. We have fined them a number of times and despite promises of payment nothing has been forthcoming.

We would like to inform you that your AHV account will remain uncredited and if we dont get paid and/or the company becomes insolvent we will come after you personally for the missing amounts.


For the above duplicate and for AHV substitute BVG and Steuer.
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Old 26.11.2015, 12:28
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Re: Unpaid AHV and salary.

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So you finally agree with me - they pay when they like - so how can it be nonsense that the BVG dtatement is not a statement of payments made.

When a company gets into cash flow problems the easiest thing to do is to stop paying these things and before you know it cash flow turns into bankruptcy/liquidation as per the OP. Leaving the employee the big loser, having to pay the AHV/BVG/QuellenSteuer. All the time the deception has been taking place with the full knowledge of the AHV/BVG/Tax but they dont inform the employee - hmm why not - you got an answer for that?
They don't pay & the statement shows they have not paid.
Unpaid BVG & AHV is insured been there.....
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