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Old 21.07.2015, 11:43
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Re: Unemployment after sick leave

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For as long as you are still an employee of the company, albeit off sick 100%, then unemployment insurance deductions are still made.
This was what happened in my case.

Once the Krankentaggeldversicherung however, took over payment of the salary (in the form of sick pay insurance), no further deductions for anything like that were made.
I was though invoiced about one year later for the entire time under the insurance company monthly payments, by the authorities, for simply pension contributions.

As I now understand it, having been then off sick for more than 12/18 months, I would have been no longer entitled to unemployment benefit, for the precise reason that during that period no unemployment insurance contributions were paid because they weren't due.
Nope, §13.2c AVIG (Arbeitslosenversicherungsgesetz) says that, if an employee (i.e. with an ongoing employment contract) doesn't receive salary due to illness, those days still fully count.
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  #22  
Old 21.07.2015, 14:52
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Re: Unemployment after sick leave

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Nope, §13.2c AVIG (Arbeitslosenversicherungsgesetz) says that, if an employee (i.e. with an ongoing employment contract) doesn't receive salary due to illness, those days still fully count.
So if the option is available, it is actually financially beneficial for the fired employee to stay off sick for the full 2 years on 100% Krankentaggeld payments from the employer's insurance, as you get more money that way than if you go into unemployment, the former paying ordinarily 80%-100% for 2 years, whilst the latter pays only 70 or 80% for up to 2 years. Moreover you don't have the pressure from RAV for their appointments or have to prove that you are looking for work. In fact this way you can avoid the unemployment process altogether.

A further advantage of taking this route could be that because the IV is bound to be involved, since the illness is ongoing, they step in and offer something called Frühintervention/Früherfassung. The IV, as a way of trying to ensure that the former employee does not in the future come to rely on incapacity benefit (presumably after the Krankentaggeld is exhausted), authorizes and finances a work-related course, this could be a language course.
More here: https://www.ahv-iv.ch/p/4.12.d (German) https://www.ahv-iv.ch/p/4.12.i (Italian)

Having said that you do have to pay your own old-age pension contributions during the entire period you are solely on Krankentaggeld.

Last edited by plumtree; 21.07.2015 at 15:01. Reason: adding
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  #23  
Old 21.07.2015, 15:55
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Re: Unemployment after sick leave

Keep in mind that the insurance will certainly ascertain that you are effectively too ill to work and not just pay out. IV also is not really just accepting that you are too ill to work and will do what they can they get you back to work rather than pulling IV endlessly.

And if you want to extend/renew your permit this may work against you.

You make it sound so easy but the impact could be less nice that you picture it here. I´d also imagine that you want to get well and work again?
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Old 21.07.2015, 16:43
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Re: Unemployment after sick leave

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Keep in mind that the insurance will certainly ascertain that you are effectively too ill to work and not just pay out.
Correct, in my case there was one medical check-up from the employer in the first year of illness. Then a further check-up from the Krankentaggeldversicherung in the second year. Both check-ups confirmed that there were the requisites for a '100% inability to work certificate' as issued by my family doctor (at that time) were fulfilled and the Versicherung ended up paying out the entire two years of sick pay. First year 100% of salary, second year 80%, though policies vary. I didn't have to pay a monthly premium to this Versicherung company as the departing/fired employee had/has the right to continue cover under the pre-existing conditions that were benefitted from during employment!
I only had to pay the minimum old age pension contributions myself.
I am of the opinion though, looking back, that there would be less people off sick on Krankentaggeld generally if companies were prohibited from firing employees who are off sick, or at the very least, there should be a much, much longer basic period of protection for all employees in Switzerland.

The more people who are off sick, the higher the premiums become in subsequent years for the employer to pay for these insurance schemes!

If I had not had been fired during illness I would have most probably gradually returned to work. The company until then had let people stay off sick for much longer without firing them. The change of policy they introduced meant that 7 of us were fired almost simultaneously. 3 of us benefitted from the full 2 year payout and avoided unemployment altogether. I kept in contact with the other 2 and both said they would have returned to work there at least part-time had they not have been fired.

http://www.20min.ch/finance/news/story/10962705
"Die meisten Taggeldversicherungen geben einen Anspruch auf Lohn während 730 Tagen. Will heissen: Wenn ein Angestellter sich immer wieder neu krankschreiben lässt, kann er im Extremfall bis zu zwei Jahre Lohn kassieren."

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And if you want to extend/renew your permit this may work against you.
This might only apply to foreigners still on a B-permit though.

A C-permit can't be revoked or the renewal refused for a resident foreigner just because they have been granted incapacity benefit, nor if they are in receipt of Krankentaggeld for that matter.

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IV also is not really just accepting that you are too ill to work and will do what they can they get you back to work rather than pulling IV endlessly.
Also correct, to an extent. Yes, I attended for example a short language course (which also encompassed help with CV preparation and employment application letter writing) as part of the IV's Frühintervention/Früherfassung offer in the first year of sick pay, so that was useful at the time, but clearly it didn't magically find me work. I suppose if I had been officially unemployed and fit to work, then RAV would have financed a similar course in any case.

As for 'pulling' IV, I believe that if someone has been awarded an 'IV-Rente' for valid reasons, it will be very difficult for the IV to get them off the 'Rente' again. After a couple of years the person will get used to being on disability. There is little motivation probably at that late stage to come off it, particularly as once the Krankenversicherung has paid out the two years, by that time the IV must have given their decision for the employer's application for their now former employee for payment of a 'Rente' (usually it arrives within a year, in some circumstances it can take longer), the onus then mainly falls back onto the employer to pay out permanently!

Last edited by plumtree; 21.07.2015 at 19:30. Reason: adding
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Old 21.07.2015, 18:34
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Re: Unemployment after sick leave

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So if the option is available, it is actually financially beneficial for the fired employee to stay off sick for the full 2 years on 100% Krankentaggeld payments from the employer's insurance, as you get more money that way than if you go into unemployment, the former paying ordinarily 80%-100% for 2 years, whilst the latter pays only 70 or 80% for up to 2 years.
Getting "paid" by the insurance counts towards the Rahmenfrist (unemployment insurance), at least while you have an employment contract. I'm not sure if that also applies after having been fired, but if it does there will be an additional 400 Taggelder after the insurance has run out. If it doesn't, you want to open the Rahmenfrist a bit before the first year of unemployment has ended, that'll give you an additional year (about 250 days) during which you can draw Taggelder for the unemployment insurance.

Keep in mind though that I have no practical experience here. People in this kind of dreadful situation should by all means ask the responsible government body for reliable info, or seek professional legal help when doubtful.

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The more people who are off sick, the higher the premiums become in subsequent years for the employer to pay for these insurance schemes!
Once the insurance kicks in, un/employment becomes irrelevant. Hence being let go after falling ill has no(negligible) effect on premiums.
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