Assuming that your company allows you to undertake a training course that is relevant to your jobs eg a UML-modelling for and IT Engineer, how does it work ?

In my experience the employer pays for both the fee and the wages of an employee.

There has been a heated debate raging in the office amongst the employees that traditionally companies pay the fee plus half of your time of the course.

Is there a standard custom & practice here ?

dave

Where I work my employer will pay for the training cost plus the full wage while on the cousre. The company is Swiss (just in case that makes a difference).

If it's in the companies interest/benefit then they should pay both for time + course fees. (UK Version)

However it's a question of do the company really need the skill set?

If they don't they're unlikely to cough up. The catchphrase I've come across a lot is "Direct Business Benefit" which bascially means if they're not going to make money out of it in the short term forget it. (Management avoidance technique)

This basically is very short sighted as the more skilled your staff are the more adaptable they are within the marketplace.

Then again i hear some companies tack clauses on to staff taking expensive courses paid by the company, e.g. you can't leave for a year, normally linked to the amount of cost involved.

You could always haggle and go down the middle 50/50.

II don't think that any employer is obliged to pay either fees or 100% salary during the course. If you do it in your own time (evenings) obviously there's no loss of worktime, your company may pay for a portion of the costs, but even that's not mandatory.

http://www.organisator.ch/index.asp?topic_id=2063

see the bit at the bottom: "mit dem Arbeitgeber zu klärende Punkte".

However, if the training course would add a substantial value to your know-how and therefore to the company's assets they probably would be open to working out some kind of arrangement concerning finances.

On all the courses I've been my employer paid 100% of the course fees AND my salary. Since I started my own company 5 years ago I've also paid 100% course fees for my employees plus their full salary. After all, the company profits from their improved skills/knowledge.

Good luck!

Its actually subject to your contract apparently... often there is some clause in there. If not a 50% wage while on the training course used to be quite standard. I am unsure if this is still the case.

I am assuming you yourself are not taking a course, but if there is no previous agreement you can approach your boss and see what you can get.

I hear some more forward thinking organisations nowadays to pay for the full wage while attending further training which gives the organisation a direct benefit..

Would love to know if there is some legal standard in place... anyone?

Luckily , I don't have to get involved in this anymore (for my training needs anyway). But it is causing a bit of a discussion at this client site as one of the young talented engineers is upset at being told he must take holiday for his training course, and someone else is saying this is "the way things are done here" (this country). Don't ya just lurve those words ?

dave

If the company wants him to go on a training course, they pay for the course and wages as normal.
If its a course he has picked himself without company approval then he pays the lot.

Anything else is rubbish.

Same for me.

Only restriction I heard was if it's a biggy (MBA, for example) they get you to agree to stay with the company for a pre-arranged amount of time after the end of the course, which is fair enough if they are picking up the tab.

If the company is insisting you go on the course then they should pay for this. Then you should get paid for your time. But maybe 50% is not a bad compromise.

You need to weight up the facts and decide based on the following (IMHO):

1/ Who is wanting you to do the course (you or the company).

2/ How high is the need in your job.

3/ What are the benefits to you in the future (is it a nice to have training for future roles?)

4/ Duration i.e. is it just a day or half day or longer (if a week or more, obviously a bigger hit on your income).

That has been my experience too, not just in the UK but here as well. But these courses were to enable me to do the job rather than general career building courses (for example an MBA). Maybe that's the difference we are coming across here.

You've just reminded me now of someone relatively junior here who decided to do a management course and approached her boss to help with course fees and time off. If I remember correctly he agreed to paying either part or all of her course fees and allowing her to go from 100% working time to 80% (1 day a week attending course lessons).

I know in my early career in the UK I wouldn't have accepted any pay cut for doing a course. I simply couldn't have afforded it and most courses involved staying in a hotel, which I couldn't have afforded either without my employers paying.

I've had three different professional training experiences in Switzerland:

1. German Language Course; the company I was working for wanted me to attend this. They paid the fees, I attended in my spare time. I didn't have to commit to staying with the company for any amount of time. (Int'l company)

2. Advertising training (SAWI); a year's course. I attended the course in my free time, the ad agency paid the fees and exam fee under the condition that I remain with the company for one year after completion. I left the company within that year, but my new employers paid part of the fee back to my former employer, so that I could take the new job. (Intl'l companies)

3. Film production training (with diploma) - one year's course. I was working for a film house, who just gave me time off to take the exam. I paid the fees and I put in my free time during the year to attend. My employer did not request the training in this case; it was something I wanted to do. Therefore, they did not feel compelled to support it financially (Swiss company).

I would say if the company requires you to do the training; they should pay the fees. I never received compensation for the "leisure" time I put in and I didn't expect it either. Surely, once you have trained you'll be up for a promotion and pay-rise anyway ?

In my case (employee of ABB in Turgi) the company pays for my German classes full course, twice a week and during the working hours.

It is deducted from the special cost centre. It might be the case that since it is an international company and the main issue is communication between employees thus it is part of employee development programme.

However, it is not worldwide accepted. For example in a small industrial company in South Africa, any employee development programme that I wanted to attend had to be negoatiated with MD and usually it had an effect on the salary.

But I think the original post by Dave was from a 'Contractors' point of view:

1/ Normally as a contractor if YOU want to do a course, then you pay and use your time.

2/ If the company wants you to take a course, then they should cover the costs and offer some compensation for the time.

As a permanent employee:

1/ Depends on the company and generousity of your boss. A guy in the office got nothing, dropped to 80% and had to pay the course himself. But know other people who got some or all of the costs plus the time.

2/ All costs and time by company.

No it was from a permanent member of staff's point of view. Company HR departments wax lyrical about training and staff development is key to our future success, and yet here is an example where it is brought into question.

When I was a contractor the training , almost invariably (usually on site for the team) was provided for free, but it was non-bookable time.

dave

Oh how many times have I seen/heard this..

My former employer in the USA paid for training and salary whilst one was being trained. This was for both temporary and permanent employees.

Relevant enough for you Dave?

Half a dozen or so years ago UBS couldn't find enough mainframe COBOL folks, and offered contractors free training. Not on full pay, but it sounded a reasonable deal if that's what you wanted to do.

I got paid a full salary by my employer while I disappeared to university for four years to do my first degree in Cider Consumption & Management.

dave

I think that generally chances not to pay for any kind of training are much higher in a large company than in a ''mickey-mouse'' company...