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Old 25.08.2015, 20:27
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Missing RAV info-days, unemployment benefits restricted

Hello, I'm feeling pretty annoyed just now at this, and I'm hoping someone has some information which would be of use, or has experienced this before, or....

The situation is, I just finished up a contract on the 19 June. Contract came to an end, I notified the RAV in good time, and I was forthscoming with my documents, went to my counselling appointment and all was more or less OK until my phone. where I keep reminders of all my appointments, died, kaputt, and no I didn't have everything synced to the cloud. So I had to go get a new one, which I did, and now I'm keeping everything in the cloud to avoid exactly this happening again.

About a week after I got the phone, I realised that there was an appointment for a German test to see how good my German was, organised by the RAV, and I mailed my advisor about it. Turns out I had missed it by a week. Now, to be fair, I had missed two before, but that was during previous short instances where I wa out of work. I've been unemployed twice before, but always managed to get myself a job within a couple of months. The RAV always organised these appointments, but by the time they were due I was generally looking forward to the new contract and it slipped my mind. On this occasion it was a pure accident.

So here's the thing; my advisor notified the insurance company (the people who actually pay your unemployment insurance to you) and put it as "repeated failure to attend RAV appointments". Now they have contacted the Amt fur Wirtschaft and accordingly a judgement was given against me, they have slashed my allowance; it's about a quarter of what it should be, and I'm losing money hand over fist as I am searching for a job. No fun.

Does anyone know of an appeals process for this? Is Swiss law really this draconian towards people looking for work? I've been here for six years working and paying into this system, I'm pretty miffed to be honest that they have the right to deny me assistance whilst I search for a new role. I understand that they are trying to prevent benefit fraud, but A) I've paid into the system, heavily and b) I made an honest mistake. I'm not in long term unemployment nor do i seek to be. This seems ridiculously harsh, for missing one appointment, and I feel there must be some recourse.
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Old 25.08.2015, 20:46
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Re: Missing RAV info-days, unemployment benefits restricted

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Hello, I'm feeling pretty annoyed just now at this, and I'm hoping someone has some information which would be of use, or has experienced this before, or....

The situation is, I just finished up a contract on the 19 June. Contract came to an end, I notified the RAV in good time, and I was forthscoming with my documents, went to my counselling appointment and all was more or less OK until my phone. where I keep reminders of all my appointments, died, kaputt, and no I didn't have everything synced to the cloud. So I had to go get a new one, which I did, and now I'm keeping everything in the cloud to avoid exactly this happening again.

About a week after I got the phone, I realised that there was an appointment for a German test to see how good my German was, organised by the RAV, and I mailed my advisor about it. Turns out I had missed it by a week. Now, to be fair, I had missed two before, but that was during previous short instances where I wa out of work. I've been unemployed twice before, but always managed to get myself a job within a couple of months. The RAV always organised these appointments, but by the time they were due I was generally looking forward to the new contract and it slipped my mind. On this occasion it was a pure accident.

So here's the thing; my advisor notified the insurance company (the people who actually pay your unemployment insurance to you) and put it as "repeated failure to attend RAV appointments". Now they have contacted the Amt fur Wirtschaft and accordingly a judgement was given against me, they have slashed my allowance; it's about a quarter of what it should be, and I'm losing money hand over fist as I am searching for a job. No fun.

Does anyone know of an appeals process for this? Is Swiss law really this draconian towards people looking for work? I've been here for six years working and paying into this system, I'm pretty miffed to be honest that they have the right to deny me assistance whilst I search for a new role. I understand that they are trying to prevent benefit fraud, but A) I've paid into the system, heavily and b) I made an honest mistake. I'm not in long term unemployment nor do i seek to be. This seems ridiculously harsh, for missing one appointment, and I feel there must be some recourse.
The appeal process will be mentioned in the letter. 28 days IIRC.

TBH it won't do much good, you screwed up & must pay the price, nothing to do with benefit fraud.
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Old 25.08.2015, 20:50
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Re: Missing RAV info-days, unemployment benefits restricted

Forget appealing - it won't work in your circumstance. Basically, in the eyes of the RAV, you screwed up. Failiure of a device is not an excuse, equally the loss of a handwritten diary would not be an excuse. It's expected that once you're informed of these appointments that you keep them. With the RAV there are no excuses.

My advice is just do what I do and keep a diary in your head. Or at least make a paper backup to your digital entry.
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Old 25.08.2015, 20:55
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Re: Missing RAV info-days, unemployment benefits restricted

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Forget appealing - it won't work in your circumstance. Basically, in the eyes of the RAV, you screwed up. Failiure of a device is not an excuse, equally the loss of a handwritten diary would not be an excuse. It's expected that once you're informed of these appointments that you keep them. With the RAV there are no excuses.

My advice is just do what I do and keep a diary in your head. Or at least make a paper backup to your digital entry.
The RAV give all appointments in writing so loosing a device or a diary should not be an issue. I suspect the one for the German test was even signed for by the OP
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Old 25.08.2015, 23:05
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Re: Missing RAV info-days, unemployment benefits restricted

RAV people are dicks. They are very strict in terms of following their rules.
They think you did it intentionally because they experienced so many unpleasant cases before. I would just call them and explain what was going on.
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Old 26.08.2015, 01:39
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Re: Missing RAV info-days, unemployment benefits restricted

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RAV people are dicks. They are very strict in terms of following their rules.
They think you did it intentionally because they experienced so many unpleasant cases before. I would just call them and explain what was going on.
Switzerland works by following rules, the OP wants up to 8k a month so should be capable to following instructions that a 13 year old should be able to follow. Tough shit if it's too difficult.
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Old 26.08.2015, 01:51
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Re: Missing RAV info-days, unemployment benefits restricted

The penalty may be harsh, but I guess it's a good way to ensure that attitudes are adjusted accordingly.
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Old 26.08.2015, 09:17
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Re: Missing RAV info-days, unemployment benefits restricted

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RAV people are dicks. They are very strict in terms of following their rules.
They think you did it intentionally because they experienced so many unpleasant cases before. I would just call them and explain what was going on.
There are very few RAV rules! There are many Swiss laws for the RAV and insurance to follow. The OP might feel he is persecuted, but effectively he broke the laws.

Every appointment was sent by letter, if the OP cannot manage a paper trail, then he must pay the fine.
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Old 26.08.2015, 11:14
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Re: Missing RAV info-days, unemployment benefits restricted

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RAV people are dicks. They are very strict in terms of following their rules.
They think you did it intentionally because they experienced so many unpleasant cases before. I would just call them and explain what was going on.
The only dick here is you !

He missed 3 appointments, once this time, twice before.

As he said he contributed " I've paid into the system, heavily" so he must have been earning a good wedge so a few days panalty shouldn't hurt too badly or it may teach him about management of resources.
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Old 27.08.2015, 20:46
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Re: Missing RAV info-days, unemployment benefits restricted

The punishments you get from RAV are disproportionate indeed. I was 3 days late with my job search list and got a 1000 chf fine. Its the only institution in Switzerland that can f-ck you over financially for petty "offences" like that.

But, as previously mentioned, just take it like a man and move on. RAV is a 0 tolerance deal. You get a lot, but mess up and you will pay dearly.
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Old 27.08.2015, 20:50
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Re: Missing RAV info-days, unemployment benefits restricted

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The punishments you get from RAV are disproportionate indeed. I was 3 days late with my job search list and got a 1000 chf fine. Its the only institution in Switzerland that can f-ck you over financially for petty "offences" like that.

But, as previously mentioned, just take it like a man and move on. RAV is a 0 tolerance deal. You get a lot, but mess up and you will pay dearly.
3 days punishment for 3 day late, so you were a top earner but incompetent & should have never got a job paying so much in the first place, let me guess IT ?
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