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  #21  
Old 30.10.2015, 19:16
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Re: Natural American Spirit company

Do you spend 5 minutes in the office chatting, then 55 minutes outside in the cold and rain working?
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Old 30.10.2015, 19:55
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Re: Natural American Spirit company

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I certainly would be.

Tom
Tell us, Tom, what would make you happy to work for a tobacco company?

I don't know whether you smoke, nor do I care what personal lifestyle choices you make as long as they don't affect others (although smoking has more effect on others than you may realise); I'm just interested in knowing why you would be pleased to work for a company that sells tobacco and promotes (and encourages) its use. I'd also be interested to know how you would feel about the work you'd done when you got home each evening from your hypothetical job at the tobacco company.

In your answer, you may (but don't have to) include your views on the following facts (source: U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention). I acknowledge that many of these facts are specific to the U.S. but I trust that you accept the CDC as a reputable, science-based institution and are happy to extrapolate this information, or at least use it to judge the scale of the problem.

Smoking leads to disease and disability and harms nearly every organ of the body
  • More than 16 million Americans are living with a disease caused by smoking.
  • For every person who dies because of smoking, at least 30 people live with a serious smoking-related illness.
  • Smoking causes cancer, heart disease, stroke, lung diseases, diabetes, and chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD), which includes emphysema and chronic bronchitis.
  • Smoking also increases risk for tuberculosis, certain eye diseases, and problems of the immune system, including rheumatoid arthritis.
  • Smoking is a known cause of erectile dysfunction in males.

Smoking is the leading cause of preventable death
  • Worldwide, tobacco use causes nearly 6 million deaths per year, and current trends show that tobacco use will cause more than 8 million deaths annually by 2030.
  • Cigarette smoking is responsible for more than 480,000 deaths per year in the United States, including nearly 42,000 deaths resulting from secondhand smoke exposure. This is about one in five deaths annually, or 1,300 deaths every day.
  • On average, smokers die 10 years earlier than nonsmokers.
  • If smoking continues at the current rate among U.S. youth, 5.6 million of today’s Americans younger than 18 years of age are expected to die prematurely from a smoking-related illness. This represents about one in every 13 Americans aged 17 years or younger who are alive today.

Costs
  • Total economic cost of smoking in the U.S. is more than $300 billion a year, including:
    - Nearly $170 billion in direct medical care for adults
    - More than $156 billion in lost productivity due to premature death and exposure to secondhand smoke

An actual, considered answer, rather one of your meaningless, contemptuously dismissive groans, would be appreciated.
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  #23  
Old 30.10.2015, 20:13
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Re: Natural American Spirit company

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Seems like a great place for a dog to get their free nicotine fix.

Go right ahead and wave goodbye to any hopes of curing the world of destructive addictions.

The photo you posted is actually showing how stupid "scientists" are.

Connecting an animals face to a mask that they are forced to breath in smoke non-stop. I saw that with the "proof" that Marijuana causes brain damage - using monkeys who could only breath pure smoke without once taking a normal breath. Of course it caused unhealthy results. Same as connecting your face to the exhaust of your car and making you breath that.
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Old 30.10.2015, 20:18
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Re: Natural American Spirit company

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Tell us, Tom, what would make you happy to work for a tobacco company?

I don't know whether you smoke, nor do I care what personal lifestyle choices you make as long as they don't affect others (although smoking has more effect on others than you may realise); I'm just interested in knowing why you would be pleased to work for a company that sells tobacco and promotes (and encourages) its use. I'd also be interested to know how you would feel about the work you'd done when you got home each evening from your hypothetical job at the tobacco company.

In your answer, you may (but don't have to) include your views on the following facts (source: U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention). I acknowledge that many of these facts are specific to the U.S. but I trust that you accept the CDC as a reputable, science-based institution and are happy to extrapolate this information, or at least use it to judge the scale of the problem.

Smoking leads to disease and disability and harms nearly every organ of the body
  • More than 16 million Americans are living with a disease caused by smoking.
  • For every person who dies because of smoking, at least 30 people live with a serious smoking-related illness.
  • Smoking causes cancer, heart disease, stroke, lung diseases, diabetes, and chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD), which includes emphysema and chronic bronchitis.
  • Smoking also increases risk for tuberculosis, certain eye diseases, and problems of the immune system, including rheumatoid arthritis.
  • Smoking is a known cause of erectile dysfunction in males.

Smoking is the leading cause of preventable death
  • Worldwide, tobacco use causes nearly 6 million deaths per year, and current trends show that tobacco use will cause more than 8 million deaths annually by 2030.
  • Cigarette smoking is responsible for more than 480,000 deaths per year in the United States, including nearly 42,000 deaths resulting from secondhand smoke exposure. This is about one in five deaths annually, or 1,300 deaths every day.
  • On average, smokers die 10 years earlier than nonsmokers.
  • If smoking continues at the current rate among U.S. youth, 5.6 million of today’s Americans younger than 18 years of age are expected to die prematurely from a smoking-related illness. This represents about one in every 13 Americans aged 17 years or younger who are alive today.

Costs
  • Total economic cost of smoking in the U.S. is more than $300 billion a year, including:
    - Nearly $170 billion in direct medical care for adults
    - More than $156 billion in lost productivity due to premature death and exposure to secondhand smoke

An actual, considered answer, rather one of your meaningless, contemptuously dismissive groans, would be appreciated.
You sound like a perfect example of what is required for further brainwashing.

This week it was "proved" that eating smoked meats will cause cancer.
Eating butter was once believed to cause heart attacks
Milk too.
Drinking bottled water also causes cancer.
Sunshine causes cancer.
Sunscreens cause cancer.
Rain is poisonous
Being born is dangerous for your health.
Your parents could hamper your upbringing.
You could be killed by a train, a tram, a truck, another car.
You could actually die!!!!!!!!!
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Old 30.10.2015, 20:19
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Re: Natural American Spirit company

Cool, now we have Ace1 giving out meaningless, contemptuously dismissive groans. Is every other smoker on EF who's too self-absorbed and too far in denial to understand the impact of smoking -- both on themselves and on everyone else in society -- going to join in, too?

It's sad that some people still want to sweep such a huge contributor to failing health and early death under the carpet.
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Old 30.10.2015, 20:23
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Re: Natural American Spirit company

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You sound like a perfect example of what is required for further brainwashing.

This week it was "proved" that eating smoked meats will cause cancer.
Eating butter was once believed to cause heart attacks
Milk too.
Drinking bottled water also causes cancer.
Sunshine causes cancer.
Sunscreens cause cancer.
Rain is poisonous
Being born is dangerous for your health.
Your parents could hamper your upbringing.
You could be killed by a train, a tram, a truck, another car.
You could actually die!!!!!!!!!
Science fail.

No, it was stated that eating processed red meat increases the risk of cancer. Not "will cause cancer".

Smoking also increases the risk of cancer, by a much larger amount than eating processed red meat (or any of the other items, some spurious, on your list). Some people can smoke for a lifetime and escape an early death and/or diminished health. Most won't. That's all.
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Old 30.10.2015, 20:25
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Re: Natural American Spirit company

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Cool, now we have Ace1 giving out meaningless, contemptuously dismissive groans. Is every other smoker on EF who's too self-absorbed and too far in denial to understand the impact of smoking -- both on themselves and on everyone else in society -- going to join in, too?
I just didn't think your preaching was necessary, was all. I don't disagree with anything it said, but did it need to be said here?
  #28  
Old 30.10.2015, 20:26
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Re: Natural American Spirit company

Modfight!
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  #29  
Old 30.10.2015, 20:29
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Re: Natural American Spirit company

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Modfight!
I've got a cold, OK?
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  #30  
Old 30.10.2015, 20:30
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Re: Natural American Spirit company

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You sound like a perfect example of what is required for further brainwashing.
Oh c'mon, you can't seriously be disputing the smoking->cancer link, can you? Not even the tobacco companies do that any more

Nice trolling, 22Y , you got a live one
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Old 30.10.2015, 20:32
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Re: Natural American Spirit company

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I just didn't think your preaching was necessary, was all. I don't disagree with anything it said, but did it need to be said here?
It's unfortunate that you see it as "preaching". It is something I feel very passionate about -- I watched my grandfather die of brain cancer, metastisised from the lungs, and I work in healthcare. My post was in direct response to st2lemans' post which, incredibly, demonstrated apparent ignorance of the social effects of tobacco consumption. I am genuinely curious as to why st2lemans would be happy to work in an industry that is generally regarded as a pariah and social parasite, and genuinely interested in knowing how he would reconcile the "pleasure" he would feel at working for a tobacco company with the facts that I listed.
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  #32  
Old 30.10.2015, 20:42
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Re: Natural American Spirit company

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Cool, now we have Ace1 giving out meaningless, contemptuously dismissive groans. Is every other smoker on EF who's too self-absorbed and too far in denial to understand the impact of smoking -- both on themselves and on everyone else in society -- going to join in, too?

It's sad that some people still want to sweep such a huge contributor to failing health and early death under the carpet.
Mod fight!!

FIGHT
FIGHT
FIGHT

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Old 30.10.2015, 20:47
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Re: Natural American Spirit company

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It's unfortunate that you see it as "preaching". It is something I feel very passionate about.
Fair enough. I do work on cancer meds myself, you know.

And maybe, given Smoky's reaction, it wasn't as unnecessary as I thought - I really, _really_ didn't think there were any deniers left, but it would seem I was wrong
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  #34  
Old 30.10.2015, 20:49
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Re: Natural American Spirit company

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It's unfortunate that you see it as "preaching". It is something I feel very passionate about -- I watched my grandfather die of brain cancer, metastisised from the lungs, and I work in healthcare. My post was in direct response to st2lemans' post which, incredibly, demonstrated apparent ignorance of the social effects of tobacco consumption. I am genuinely curious as to why st2lemans would be happy to work in an industry that is generally regarded as a pariah and social parasite, and genuinely interested in knowing how he would reconcile the "pleasure" he would feel at working for a tobacco company with the facts that I listed.
I also knew someone who died from lung cancer, who smoked.
Someone else died of lung cancer who never smoked.

There is also a massive difference in what one smokes, where one smokes, how one`s lifestyle impacts with smoking.

Most old people I know, who`ve died, have smoked .... but they lived into their nineties! Dying from other things, like kidneys/heart/whatever. Were they meant to live longer?
Most gave up because they could no longer be independent, were blind, or deaf. And OLD enough to die - and die happily and content with their lives.

Ready bought cigarettes are full of chemicals. I must say the brand here mentioned is actually a "pure" brand of tobacco - just sun-dried, without sugar or chemicals (to make it burn).

Commerically made cigarettes stink to high heaven. The sun-dried tobaccos do not. The black gunk that comes out in testing of commercially made cigarettes is actually burnt sugar combined with the nicotine, plus all the other stuff added.

Does no-one work in an alcohol producing firm? Auto firm? Chemical firm? Or are those acceptable work places?

Why does alcohol cause so much misery in peoples lives? Because it is acceptable?
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Old 30.10.2015, 20:50
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Re: Natural American Spirit company

Modfight - raising the bar for every future Friday thread!
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  #36  
Old 30.10.2015, 20:56
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Re: Natural American Spirit company

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Modfight - raising the bar for every future Friday thread!
Don`t get too excited. Maybe tonight is just a boring night at home.
I got a step-son talking about his new flat with his Dad, in Swissgerman so I cant quite follow the story (all typical first world problems) so doing some trolling on EF. to amuse myself.

Time for a whisky, so I`ll leave the mods to their amusement.
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Old 30.10.2015, 21:00
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Re: Natural American Spirit company

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Don`t get too excited. Maybe tonight is just a boring night at home.
I got a step-son talking about his new flat with his Dad, in Swissgerman so I cant quite follow the story (all typical first world problems) so doing some trolling on EF. to amuse myself.

Time for a whisky, so I`ll leave the mods to their amusement.
Careful now - Whiskey kills.
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  #38  
Old 30.10.2015, 21:08
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Re: Natural American Spirit company

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Modfight - raising the bar for every future Friday thread!
You're too late -- that hatchet's buried already!

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I also knew someone who died from lung cancer, who smoked.
Someone else died of lung cancer who never smoked.

There is also a massive difference in what one smokes, where one smokes, how one`s lifestyle impacts with smoking.

Most old people I know, who`ve died, have smoked .... but they lived into their nineties! Dying from other things, like kidneys/heart/whatever. Were they meant to live longer?
Most gave up because they could no longer be independent, were blind, or deaf. And OLD enough to die - and die happily and content with their lives.

Ready bought cigarettes are full of chemicals. I must say the brand here mentioned is actually a "pure" brand of tobacco - just sun-dried, without sugar or chemicals (to make it burn).

Commerically made cigarettes stink to high heaven. The sun-dried tobaccos do not. The black gunk that comes out in testing of commercially made cigarettes is actually burnt sugar combined with the nicotine, plus all the other stuff added.

Does no-one work in an alcohol producing firm? Auto firm? Chemical firm? Or are those acceptable work places?

Why does alcohol cause so much misery in peoples lives? Because it is acceptable?
Sorry, smoky, it's just not worth my while to try to get you to understand how ridiculous the stuff you just wrote is.

However, I will say this: bravo, you know some people who smoked and died "from other things". I guess you don't know this, but death from smoking doesn't come with a great big label and flashing lights that say "S/he Died Because Of Smoking!" I'm guessing you think that lung cancer is the only way to die from smoking, right? Read my long post above and you'll see that smoking can cause catastrophic damage to one's "kidneys/heart/whatever" and causes millions (no exaggeration) of deaths due to failure of "kidneys/heart/whatever".

There's so much else wrong with your post, but I just don't have time to address it all... the black gunk that's actually burnt sugar (certainly not tar, right?)... the suggestion that "pure", "sun-dried" tobacco is somehow OK...

And your list of other unacceptable workplaces. Alcohol is nowhere near as addictive as tobacco (so the vast majority of people can control their consumption) and in limited quantities, may actually have beneficial effects on health. Cars -- I really fail to see your point there, especially since the industry is evolving to cleaner vehicles. Chemicals -- what is that supposed to mean? Water is a chemical. So is methylated spirits. And food colouring. Not to mention vinegar. "Chemicals" are used to manufacture plastics and many fabrics used in clothing. The vast majority of people don't voluntarily ingest large quantities of toxic chemicals that are proven to cause significant damage to health -- except smokers.

Anyway, there's no point trying to debate issues with people who have their heads stuck in the sand. I'd just prefer you to find a less antisocial method of self-destruction that didn't cost the broader community so much.
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Old 30.10.2015, 21:10
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Re: Natural American Spirit company

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You're too late -- that hatchet's buried already!
Considering Ace hasn't posted, I assume it is in his back
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Old 30.10.2015, 21:16
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Re: Natural American Spirit company

I'm surprised it took so long to mention alcohol. Maybe you all enjoy your tipples too much to realise that drink can kill just as well as smoking can.

http://www.drugfree.org/join-togethe...ths-worldwide/

Maybe not so many deaths, but enough to warrant a health warning on their labels same as cigarettes have perhaps? And I doubt those figures take into account the many deaths caused by drunk drivers.

Ultimately the choice whether to smoke or drink or take anything else harmful is down to the individual. Just don't go running to the courts screaming for compensation when you do end up with a terminal illness. You made your choice, there's no one to blame but yourself.
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