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Old 02.11.2015, 15:24
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Living with someone = no right to social security?

Hi all, I have a friend who will be reaching the end of his unemployment allowance period next year. He had an appointment with someone from the council who informed him that, because he lives with someone, he is not entitled to any. They don't know if this person is his partner or not, and they live in a 2-bedroom flat so they could for all intents and purposes be housemates. They said if the other person's salary was lower, he would have a claim to it. So... Flatmates are support each other financially when the other one has literally no income? Doesn't sound right to me... They are actually a couple but nothing official on a legal level. If they don't get any of the benefits of being in an officially registered relationship, why should one be expected to support the other? Am I missing something? (By the way, I did a search, honest... If this question has already been asked, please point me in its direction and delete the thread!).
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Old 02.11.2015, 15:37
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Re: Living with someone = no right to social security?

This is correct.

When it comes to social payments, the income of all living in the same place comes into consideration, including employed children.

Case in point: my wife was on social assistance when she moved in (several years before we got married). They asked for all of my and my children's salary info, and she was denied any further assistance.

Sorry, that's how it works.

Tom
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Old 02.11.2015, 15:38
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Re: Living with someone = no right to social security?

WOW. That is ridiculous. So if he moved out into his own place he would get help? I am really finding this hard grasp.
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Old 02.11.2015, 15:40
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Re: Living with someone = no right to social security?

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So if he moved out into his own place he would get help?
Yes.

Tom
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Old 02.11.2015, 15:44
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Re: Living with someone = no right to social security?

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WOW. That is ridiculous. So if he moved out into his own place he would get help? I am really finding this hard grasp.
I guess local tax payers don't have a problem with this. Probably not as he would clearly be taking the piss. Remember Switzerland is not the UK where 50% of households receive help, much in the form of tax credits.
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Old 02.11.2015, 15:48
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Re: Living with someone = no right to social security?

Here is a similar case (Ger: ) https://www.ktipp.ch/artikel/d/muss-...unterstuetzen/

If the Administration believe (on whatever grounds) that it is a "marriage like" relationship, then it can expect that one partner supports the other.

Here are other cases (Ger: ) https://www.google.ch/?gws_rd=ssl#q=...erst%C3%BCtzen
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Old 02.11.2015, 15:49
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Re: Living with someone = no right to social security?

Also, if you own a house or apartment, you will get nothing, even if after selling said property and paying off the mortgage, debts, borrowed pension fund, etc., you are left with nothing (though, once it's sold, and are left with nothing, then you can get assistance).

I know of such a case (not me this time).

Tom
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Old 02.11.2015, 15:57
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Re: Living with someone = no right to social security?

This is all totally new to me as I have always been employed here. I also come from the UK where (at least in the cases I know) people at least get help with the bare minimum. Thank you all for the explanations, I am just a little shocked and flabbergasted!
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Old 02.11.2015, 16:02
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Re: Living with someone = no right to social security?

Here the official SKOS Guideline Handbook (German) on the topic:
http://www.sozialhilfe.zh.ch/Handbuc...tsbeitrag.aspx

(SKOS Swiss Association of Social Aid Providers)

It was recently in the news (http://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/wirtscha...story/23290465) as the Federal Court had to decide on the above guidelines: http://www.servat.unibe.ch/dfr/bger/..._232-2015.html
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Old 02.11.2015, 16:11
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Re: Living with someone = no right to social security?

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This is all totally new to me as I have always been employed here. I also come from the UK where (at least in the cases I know) people at least get help with the bare minimum. Thank you all for the explanations, I am just a little shocked and flabbergasted!
Possibly the reason why Switzerland is doing better than the UK, where people can live in very expensive houses paid for out of social benefits.

Despite the benefits cuts 574 families are having rent of £70,000 a year paid, frankly I am more than a little shocked & flabbergasted.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/567...ts-despite-cap
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Old 02.11.2015, 16:15
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Re: Living with someone = no right to social security?

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This is all totally new to me as I have always been employed here. I also come from the UK where (at least in the cases I know) people at least get help with the bare minimum. Thank you all for the explanations, I am just a little shocked and flabbergasted!


I agree that it's a bit odd not to get any means-tested independent support at all, but I guess the point is that someone really has to be in true hardship of situation before the Swiss will take action.


What was his field of work before he became unemployed? Also what is his age?
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Old 02.11.2015, 16:17
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Re: Living with someone = no right to social security?

One other thing, while my girlfriend no longer received social assistance after moving in, she did continue to get subsidized health insurance until we married a few years later, as that is based on the income reported on her tax returns.

Likewise, she had to pay the minimal AHV (CHF 492/year or so) until we got married, after which point she no longer did.

Tom
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Old 02.11.2015, 16:22
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Re: Living with someone = no right to social security?

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WOW. That is ridiculous. So if he moved out into his own place he would get help? I am really finding this hard grasp.

When they lived and earned together they haven't paid their "marriage penalty" tax, did they? You, the state has been nice to them :-)

Also, if a benefit receiver marries a well off person, some communities authorities may decide it is time now not just to stop the benefits, but to ask for their repayment as well.
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Old 02.11.2015, 16:28
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Re: Living with someone = no right to social security?

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Also, if you own a house or apartment, you will get nothing.
Not completely true. Actually it depends on the canton (or more possibly the municipality involved) and of course the value of the property. Forcing the individual to move out of the property means that the actual monthly outgoings will go up. Rents are far higher, anything from double to triple is possible.
Some towns will see that it will cost them more if they have to start paying rent for an individual by moving him/her out of an owned-property and selling it. For instance, there is no guarantee that the property sale will bring in any money whatsoever (it may sell for less than what was paid for).
Keeping the individual in an 'owner-occupant' situation can often make far better financial sense (for both the town and the individual) insofar as less social welfare benefit is required!
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Old 02.11.2015, 17:24
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Re: Living with someone = no right to social security?

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WOW. That is ridiculous. So if he moved out into his own place he would get help? I am really finding this hard grasp.
That's socialism. It's never fair. The only fair way would be to pay nobody anything ever. But that would be unfair...
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Old 02.11.2015, 17:32
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Re: Living with someone = no right to social security?

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This is all totally new to me as I have always been employed here. I also come from the UK where (at least in the cases I know) people at least get help with the bare minimum. Thank you all for the explanations, I am just a little shocked and flabbergasted!
They do - it's just that the "bare minimum" is defined on a household level, and is more strict.

Also bear in mind the unemployment benefits and facilities to get people back into work are much better than in the UK for the two years you get; it's a strong incentive to get a job, without much hardship for quite a long period, and less chance of benefit addiction/vicious circle.
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Old 02.11.2015, 21:53
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Re: Living with someone = no right to social security?

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This is all totally new to me as I have always been employed here. I also come from the UK where (at least in the cases I know) people at least get help with the bare minimum. Thank you all for the explanations, I am just a little shocked and flabbergasted!
You should also realise that any assistance one does get must be paid back when one finds a job or comes into money.
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Old 02.11.2015, 21:56
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Re: Living with someone = no right to social security?

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You should also realise that any assistance one does get must be paid back when one finds a job or comes into money.
Only if the salary/new source of monthly income is high enough to allow for a deduction for the repayment. For example from the salary of small part time jobs, nothing can be deducted for repayment.
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Old 03.11.2015, 00:28
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Re: Living with someone = no right to social security?

They also look at your situation, your family, etc. for example a young person cannot ask for social assistance to move out of his parents house unless it's justified.
The flatmate situation i don't think it exists, if it really was the case you could prove that to the social services, maybe they come for a visit. And if you can't pay rent in your WG i guess you get thrown out anyway.
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Old 03.11.2015, 06:30
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Re: Living with someone = no right to social security?

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Only if the salary/new source of monthly income is high enough to allow for a deduction for the repayment. For example from the salary of small part time jobs, nothing can be deducted for repayment.
sure about that? As far as I can remember (Kanton Basel) I was told that I would have to declare any earning no matter how small. The assistance would have than had that sum deducted.
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