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  #21  
Old 07.11.2015, 11:30
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Re: is 70000CHF enough for Lugano?

To determine the mean and median taxable incomes of Lugano and nearby towns in Ticino, go to the last graphic in this Tages-Anzeiger data blog and click on the various colored surfaces representing Lugano and nearby towns.
As a example, Lugano shows:
Mean taxable income: CHF 59'456
Median taxable income: CHF 37'400

http://blog.tagesanzeiger.ch/datenbl...rdiener-wohnen

I would think that CHF 70'000 gross income might produce a taxable income slightly above the mean taxable income for Lugano, and far above the median taxable income.
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  #22  
Old 07.11.2015, 11:52
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Re: is 70000CHF enough for Lugano?

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Also consider that italy is close, that cuts down costs for food, restaurants and other things.
If you have a car, which also costs a bit.

Tom
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  #23  
Old 07.11.2015, 11:55
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Re: is 70000CHF enough for Lugano?

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I would think that CHF 70'000 gross income might produce a taxable income slightly above the mean taxable income for Lugano, and far above the median taxable income.
No, 70k gross is about 50k taxable, maybe less.

Tom
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  #24  
Old 08.11.2015, 12:16
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Re: is 70000CHF enough for Lugano?

Good morning guys.

Thank you all for your time and effort.

I still haven't made up my mind
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  #25  
Old 08.11.2015, 16:13
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Re: is 70000CHF enough for Lugano?

Kalimera Chris,

I'm not in the Lugano area but is Zurich (which is a bit more expensive). So, I'll tell you my experience.

People judge from their own personal experience. There are many people here in their 40s-50s making well north the 100k, so take everything with a pinch of salt.

My comments:
  • The ETHZ salary calculator was correct in my case. I get exactly the net amount that was calculated there. The other ones I found unnecessarily confusing.
  • You can get a cheap basic insurance for 200CHF/person/month for the adults. However, keep in mind that this means you have to pay for every visit to the doctor + medicine yourself until you reach the deductible of 2000-2500 CHFs/year. That is the reason these insurances are cheap. In general, if you are both in good health, then go for this option (that's what we did). If one of you has a chronic condition or is prone to illness, you should consider the more expensive insurance with smaller deductible for that person. In general, with ASSURA (our insurance), the breaking even point is 2000CHFs of medical expenses for the year. I explain: if you believe the person will do more than 2000 in medical expenses, go for the more expensive basic insurance, if not, go for the less expensive.
  • With the cheap basic insurance, you should be prepared to pay in cash up to 3200CHFs in case of emergency (usually hospitalization). 2500CHF the deductible plus a maximum of 700CHF your 10% contribution above that.
  • You will need some starting money. For us, it was a heavy budget. We rent an apartment for 2000CHF/month, thus we needed 2 rents deposit and the 1st month (=6000 CHF). We needed 1000CHF for moving our stuff here + 2000CHF for my yearly transportation card (it gives you 3 months free if you book yearly). Sim cards + internet to call back home (200CHF), + Billag (internet + TV tax) 400CHF/year, + food and cleaning supplies for the first month for 2 people (700-800CHF). We didn't buy any furniture because the apartment came furnished. In general, we needed 10-12k CHF for starting money.
  • The kid is 9 years old. Does he speak italian? How do you think he will fit in there? If you need an international school, these are very expensive, I don't believe you can pull through with your salary. Public schools are free but in Italian.
  • Your wife could also look for a job when here. The kid is 9 years old, so I don't believe he needs so much attention anymore. She could start low until she learns to speak Italian (if she doesn't already).
  • I would advise strongly against getting/bringing a car. As a greek person, I know the car is like a part of our body. However, here it's expensive to have and unnecessary. I have a subscription at Mobility.ch and I get a car whenever I want to go to IKEA or just drive around for fun.
In general, I believe with 70k/year it's doable. We are a couple in Zurich with 86k, we live very comfortably and we even save money. You will not be able to go to restaurants every week (freaking expensive!!!), but you can have a very good quality of life for your family. Also, to tell you the truth, it's worth just to get away from all the nagging, depression, and self-pity currently going on in Greece...

Good luck and let me know if you need any more info.
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  #26  
Old 08.11.2015, 16:32
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Re: is 70000CHF enough for Lugano?

Insurance costs more inTicino than in Zurich.

Taxes are higher as well, as is public transport (what little there is)

So, what works in Zurich may well not work in Ticino.

Tom
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Old 08.11.2015, 16:52
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Re: is 70000CHF enough for Lugano?

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Insurance costs more inTicino than in Zurich.

Taxes are higher as well, as is public transport (what little there is)

So, what works in Zurich may well not work in Ticino.

Tom
Actually, I live in Baden (AG) and commute to Zurich. Comparing the taxes between Baden and Lugano, there is a difference of 1000 CHF/year. Also, the same health insurance that I have here, costs 229CHF in Lugano. Thus in total: 1000+2*12*29=1696CHF more.

Even though, I believe rents are higher in Zurich area (and Baden). If he rents at 1750/motnh, that's 300 less than what I pay. Thus, -3600/year.
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  #28  
Old 08.11.2015, 17:28
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Re: is 70000CHF enough for Lugano?

Tax, health insurance, car tax and insurance are all higher in Ticino.

But

On 70k you could survive. You would also not be in Greece which may appeal right now. Is the standard of living going to go down for you with the stability Switzerland may offer?
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  #29  
Old 08.11.2015, 20:24
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Re: is 70000CHF enough for Lugano?

Geia soy patrida

Thank you all guys.

The plan is for me to go there until summer.
Then my wife and son will join me.
The job starts in January, so for the first 6-7 months:
a) I will be alone in Lugano
and
b) they will need about 1000 per month for their expenses back in Athens.

My breakdown --as i see it-- is this (assuming 12 paychecks):
income: 5250CHF per month
-1000 per month for family in Athens = 4250
-1350 per month for my rent (something like this) = 2900
-200 per month for insurance.
-200 per month sim+internet
-500 per month for coffee, cigarettes, and various small daily personal expenses.

This leaves me with 2000 per month for food, house cleaners, Billag and all the rest.

As for my son, he does not speak Italian and I know that a private school is out of the question.
He will have to learn the basics back in Athens, or at the worst case in Lugano (he will most likely lose a school year until he's ready)

What do you think guys, am I close to reality or not?
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Old 08.11.2015, 20:50
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Re: is 70000CHF enough for Lugano?

Hi Chris,

For the time you are alone, don't rent a full apartment. Find something smaller in a shared place. You will save money and get to know the city better to find a good deal (close to schools, close to work, good neighborhood, cheaper, etc.). In any case, you might have trouble renting something decent through the internet.

Take a look at airbnb for private rooms monthly (here). You can get a nice one for 600-700 CHFs.

200CHF/month for sim card and internet are too much. Go for Yallo postpaid, for 39CHF/month you get unlimited calls (also mobiles) and sms all over Europe (incl. Greece). It includes 1GB of internet monthly. Especially for the calls, it's worth it. Internet would set you back 50CHF. So, 100CHF in total.

I think it's doable...

Cheers!

PS: Take the opportunity to quit smoking. It'll save you money and your health :P
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Old 08.11.2015, 21:01
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Re: is 70000CHF enough for Lugano?

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Geia soy patrida

Then my wife and son will join me.
The job starts in January, so for the first 6-7 months:
a) I will be alone in Lugano
and
b) they will need about 1000 per month for their expenses back in Athens.

-1350 per month for my rent (something like this) = 2900
He will have to learn the basics back in Athens, or at the worst case in Lugano (he will most likely lose a school year until he's ready)

What do you think guys, am I close to reality or not?


Do you intend to rent a small apartment initially just for yourself and then get something bigger when your wife and son join you? I only ask this as many people donīt understand what is meant by a 2.5 room apartment, and donīt realise that this will usually (if not always) only have one bedroom.


Iīve never lived in the Lugano area, so donīt know how the rental contracts there are set up, but the ones I know of have usually had a 3 month notice period, cannot be terminated within 12 months of starting, and only have specific dates that you can move out.


It is definitely looking at the possible option of renting a room, or going straight for something that will be suitable for you as a family.


I believe that the language issue for you son shouldnīt be a big problem, as from my understanding, most Swiss schools will provide additional language classes to help children who donīt speak the language to learn it quickly, and will often focus on the important topics that are being taught in their various lessons at that time.
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Old 08.11.2015, 21:02
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Re: is 70000CHF enough for Lugano?

Thanks for the URL!
It looks promising.

And a general question: why can't I give thanks to people?
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  #33  
Old 08.11.2015, 21:12
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Re: is 70000CHF enough for Lugano?

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Thanks for the URL!
It looks promising.

And a general question: why can't I give thanks to people?
I think you have to have a certain number of posts before you can use the thanks button - I canīt remember how many because I have no brain cells left today
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  #34  
Old 08.11.2015, 21:28
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Re: is 70000CHF enough for Lugano?

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Thanks for the URL!
It looks promising.

And a general question: why can't I give thanks to people?
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I think you have to have a certain number of posts before you can use the thanks button - I canīt remember how many because I have no brain cells left today
Lindsay is on the right track - you'll see the Thanks button after you have 10 posts.
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