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  #21  
Old 11.11.2015, 13:15
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Re: automatically deducted lunch hours

I've noticed this before as well, and it pisses me off too. I often work through my lunch rather than stay late, but they deduct an hour anyway.

The logic being that you have to have that time off, so to force you, we'll take it off you. I think it's known full well that this is a rip off, but it favours the employers, so it's not going to change.
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  #22  
Old 11.11.2015, 13:21
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Re: automatically deducted lunch hours

Not only is the mandatory break a legal requirement but it is also most likely stated in your contract...

It's not about exploiting employees (seriously guys, there are are worse places to work than Switzerland no?) but for your own health on the job.

Last edited by Arteemis; 11.11.2015 at 13:23. Reason: merged 2 thoughts in one
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  #23  
Old 11.11.2015, 13:23
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Re: automatically deducted lunch hours

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Not only is the mandatory break a legal requirement but it is also most likely stated in your contract...
Which isn't what's being questioned.
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Old 11.11.2015, 13:25
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Re: automatically deducted lunch hours

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Which isn't what's being questioned.
If he/she accepts a job knowing that this is a part of the deal I don't see why you would have an issue with it once on the job?
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  #25  
Old 11.11.2015, 13:27
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Re: automatically deducted lunch hours

I once visited a German company where all the local staff would leave meetings at six so they could go dowstairs, clock out and return to the meeting because they were up to the 8 hour limit allowed by HR. So for their own "protection", they were working for free.

These stupid rules don't protect employees, they allow them to be exploited even more.
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  #26  
Old 11.11.2015, 13:27
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Re: automatically deducted lunch hours

Yes, as everybody is saying - this is very much in line with swiss law and there isn't much you can do about it. Best would be if you could just fill in your hours into a time-sheet yourself, but if that isn't an option, just go when it is time to go home.

Maybe ask (as many people do) if you could work one day from home - you'll be able to arrange your time more freely that way and I have seen plenty of people doing this.
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  #27  
Old 11.11.2015, 13:29
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Re: automatically deducted lunch hours

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If he/she accepts a job knowing that this is a part of the deal I don't see why you would have an issue with it once on the job?
Right, because no-one ever complains about any part of their job after signing their contract.
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  #28  
Old 11.11.2015, 13:48
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Re: automatically deducted lunch hours

If it really is an irksome issue, as someone pointed out earlier; take a long lunch one day and don't clock out. The company will deduct 30 min anyway.
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Old 11.11.2015, 14:43
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Re: automatically deducted lunch hours

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Which is probably a good thing; if you can't track time to bill to clients, the whole consulting model kind of falls apart. ;-)
I can only charge you full day rates now... it's a new law to protect the employees... honest!
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  #30  
Old 11.11.2015, 14:46
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Re: automatically deducted lunch hours

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Starting 1 January 2016 employee time recording is to be loosened as follows:

1) Employees earning more than CHF 120'000 p.A. must are no longer obliged to record their time unless a GAV requires it.
2) Employees earning less than CHF 120'000 p.A. must record, but only their entire work time for the day.

"Neue Regeln ab 2016 Angestellte müssen ihre Arbeitszeit nicht mehr lückenlos dokumentieren. Der Bundesrat lockert die Vorschriften zur Arbeitszeiterfassung. Angestellte, die über 120'000 Franken verdienen, müssen ihre Stunden gar nicht mehr erfassen, sofern ein GAV dies vorsieht. Wer weniger verdient, muss nur noch die Gesamtdauer der täglichen Arbeitszeit festhalten."
Fixed translation.

Common false friend:
"nicht müssen" =/= "must not"
"nicht müssen" == "do not have to"
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  #31  
Old 11.11.2015, 15:55
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Re: automatically deducted lunch hours

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I'd like to be able to go home half an hour earlier instead of wasting 30 minutes at work.
if you live close by, you are perfectly entitled to go home during your lunch break. just make sure you are back by the time the break is over
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  #32  
Old 11.11.2015, 16:44
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Re: automatically deducted lunch hours

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If it really is an irksome issue, as someone pointed out earlier; take a long lunch one day and don't clock out. The company will deduct 30 min anyway.
Best answer on the entire thread!

Come on! Working from 9 to 5 and complaining about 30 minutes?
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  #33  
Old 11.11.2015, 19:59
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Re: automatically deducted lunch hours

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Right, because no-one ever complains about any part of their job after signing their contract.
People rarely complain here about the contract as they are usually quite clear and if you don't agree to it, the time to complain is BEFORE you sign, not afterwards, this is why nobody complains, nobody forced you to sign the contract and it's surely mentioned explicitly in their or covered under the bit about federal law being part of the contract.

You may wish to change something afterwards, but i really can't imagine any employer ready to change something in a contract that goes against federal/cantonal law.

You would need to negotiate and come to a further agreement, that suits both sides.

In today market, including Pharma, it really isn't the time to make too many waves, the order of the day is layoff, not compromise and if you are unfortunate enough to get laid off, then it's going to be difficult to find a new job in most cases, especially without local language abilities, unless of course you are high up the tree.
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  #34  
Old 11.11.2015, 20:02
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Re: automatically deducted lunch hours

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if you live close by, you are perfectly entitled to go home during your lunch break. just make sure you are back by the time the break is over
I usually go motorcycling during my 90min lunch break.

Tom
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  #35  
Old 11.11.2015, 23:11
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Re: automatically deducted lunch hours

At last! Some useful answers to a subject i posted a question about a while back. Thanks - very useful to hear how others do it.

The effect in my company (all non swiss nationals, except one) has been to cause all sorts of trouble. Everyone grumbles about it. Yet everyone clocks in and out... Except our sole swissy who refuses!

Yes the lunch thing is stupid. But the effect in our company is no one works over. If they do, they take it back in next day or week. But i have noticed our german employees do the 6pm clockout/return to meeting thing, too.

In the uk, my business made all its profit from unpaid overtime by employees that loved their work. Here? Even people who love their work, work to rule.

Hope it doesn't screw the economy.

Regards


Ian
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  #36  
Old 13.11.2015, 09:33
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Re: automatically deducted lunch hours

Finally have some time to respond to the hate on here. First, thank you to everyone who actually responded in kind. But wow... I guess I haven't figured out the right balance of oblivion, expertise and humour to keep the EF trolls at bay when asking for honest advice.


I never expect to go over 9 hours. In the two times this has happened, it was because much of my team starts at 10am (whereas my contract says I need to be here at 9am and am often here by 8am) and so [unscheduled] meetings often will go long. In this case I do not have the foresight to take a longer lunch or have the ability to take a second half hour lunch since, you know, we are in a meeting. So no, Phil_MCR, it is often not my choice.


Yes, I understand the points of breaks. For a job with any sort of physicality, I would observe them. They are law in Canada too, except at my last company, they treated us like adults who can manage their time.


Yes, it is easy to game the system. Its also tedious. The rest of my group doesn't have to do it, so I know there is a work around. All I was looking for was some talking points to go to my boss with to discuss moving over to the self-monitoring system. Its not in my contract, though of course there is a clause about abiding laws, I was unsure about the status of the laws, which is why I came here, and what I thought this forum was for... but then I get crap like this:

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And I'd like to be paid 1 million and to be able to kick my boss whenever I please. Unfortunately that's not legal. Why are you insisting? Your personal preferences are not valid in the workplace when it's against the law, so there's no need for debate... And if you don't like the legal working conditions here, you can always move to a country with different set of laws and not having this "lunch break constraint" for you.
What is this, rural Mississippi?

This isn't about complaining, or I would have put it in the complaints corner. This is about a problem I want to solve in a way that is mutually beneficial to me and my employer.

Last edited by Curran919; 13.11.2015 at 10:12.
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  #37  
Old 13.11.2015, 10:09
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Re: automatically deducted lunch hours

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Unlike the rest of my group who are local or German, I must log into the building with a badge scanner which is how my work time and lunch time are scanned.
Probably just for the beginning while on probation?
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  #38  
Old 13.11.2015, 10:09
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Re: automatically deducted lunch hours

The majority of the posts in this thread were empathising, but pointing out the law. If you don't like the law, then it's tough. Don't take it out on people that took time to bother answering you.
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  #39  
Old 13.11.2015, 10:13
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Re: automatically deducted lunch hours

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The majority of the posts in this thread were empathising, but pointing out the law. If you don't like the law, then it's tough. Don't take it out on people that took time to bother answering you.

I guess I should have preceded that post with a thank you. Hard to see the useful bits in this groanfest of a thread.
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