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Old 11.11.2015, 10:38
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automatically deducted lunch hours

I've finally got a job, which I'm pretty excited about, including the high reliance on German that is involved so I don't get all 'expat language-stagnant'. There is one thing about the structure that really bugs me though.


Unlike the rest of my group who are local or German, I must log into the building with a badge scanner which is how my work time and lunch time are scanned. However, if I choose not to take a lunch, it is accounted for automatically. If I work a 9-5, I am only credited with 7.5 hours regardless if I took 30 minutes for lunch. I usually do this, but what really gets m'goat is that this half hour automatically increases to 1 hour after 9 hours worked. Sometimes I get in the zone with a program or am in the lab working on an experiment that I can't just leave but where it is not feasible at all to take another 30 minute break... so I just work that 30 minutes for free.


I am told that this is a law that the employer must offer these breaks to their employees based on the time they work, but this seems utterly backwards that now the company gets to benefit from these laws. Any insight? I'm a mechanical engineer.
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Old 11.11.2015, 10:40
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Re: automatically deducted lunch hours

You get the hour or extra 30 minutes break to do what you like.

If you choose to work for free during your freely allocated time, then that is your choice.
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Old 11.11.2015, 10:51
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Re: automatically deducted lunch hours

It's Swiss law, ostensibly to protect workers and ensure they take sufficient breaks; there's not much your employer can do about it. The 9 hour thing is a little touchy though, my company only deducts the 1 hour IF the employee averages a 9+hour working day. The odd 9 hour shift due to a particularly long project shouldn't activate the 1 hour break if you take another short pause (also coded in employment law, I think).
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Old 11.11.2015, 11:01
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Re: automatically deducted lunch hours

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You get the hour or extra 30 minutes break to do what you like.

I'd like to be able to go home half an hour earlier instead of wasting 30 minutes at work.
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Old 11.11.2015, 11:08
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Re: automatically deducted lunch hours

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I'd like to be able to go home half an hour earlier instead of wasting 30 minutes at work.
I'd be happy you got a job !

One of the reasons behind a break is you are less productive over time with no break and can also be a danger to yourself and others through tirdness.

30 mins for less than 9 hours, 1 hour for over 9 hours is Swiss law, live with it.
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Old 11.11.2015, 11:10
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Re: automatically deducted lunch hours

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I'd be happy you got a job !

One of the reasons behind a break is you are less productive over time with no break and can also be a danger to yourself and others through tirdness.

30 mins for less than 9 hours, 1 hour for over 9 hours is Swiss law, live with it.
Take a break. Your typing is going...
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Old 11.11.2015, 11:12
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Re: automatically deducted lunch hours

It seems common. My last couple of companies have done it. You are legally entitled to a break at lunchtime, and if you don't clock out, it's assumed you must have taken it.

As you say, it seems a bit backward. But hey, one company expired my untaken holiday and time in leiu for my benefit too.
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I'd like to be able to go home half an hour earlier instead of wasting 30 minutes at work.
That's not legal, unfortunately.
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Old 11.11.2015, 11:34
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Re: automatically deducted lunch hours

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That's not legal, unfortunately.
Although you could potentially negotiate this with your boss/HR.

However, the way around it would not be to tell them how backwards the system is... (that's a free tip by the way).
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Old 11.11.2015, 11:36
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Re: automatically deducted lunch hours

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I'd like to be able to go home half an hour earlier instead of wasting 30 minutes at work.

You have to take a break every so many hours....legally

Companies are however imo very lacks in enforcing this and often are ok with you leaving early to compensate..... just talk to your bossman to see if they are ok with it.
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Old 11.11.2015, 11:39
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Re: automatically deducted lunch hours

It is your duty as an employee to maximize the efficiency of any timemanagement system your company employs
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Old 11.11.2015, 11:45
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Re: automatically deducted lunch hours

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That's not legal, unfortunately.
Depends whether his employer has some kind of flexi-time procedure in place or not. Many companies allow you to go + or - by a defined number of hours (+60 and -10, in my case). Extra hours can be taken as days off, if you have accumulated enough.
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Old 11.11.2015, 11:46
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Re: automatically deducted lunch hours

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I'd like to be able to go home half an hour earlier instead of wasting 30 minutes at work.
Take an hour lunch break tomorrow and don't clock out. That'll get your hour back.
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Old 11.11.2015, 11:49
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Re: automatically deducted lunch hours

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I'd like to be able to go home half an hour earlier instead of wasting 30 minutes at work.
And I'd like to be paid 1 million and to be able to kick my boss whenever I please.
Unfortunately that's not legal.

Why are you insisting?
Your personal preferences are not valid in the workplace when it's against the law, so there's no need for debate...

And if you don't like the legal working conditions here, you can always move to a country with different set of laws and not having this "lunch break constraint" for you.
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Old 11.11.2015, 11:49
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Re: automatically deducted lunch hours

Starting 1 January 2016 employee time recording is to be loosened as follows:

1) Employees earning more than CHF 120'000 p.A. must no longer record their time unless a GAV requires it.
2) Employees earning less than CHF 120'000 p.A. must record only their entire work time for the day.

"Neue Regeln ab 2016 Angestellte müssen ihre Arbeitszeit nicht mehr lückenlos dokumentieren. Der Bundesrat lockert die Vorschriften zur Arbeitszeiterfassung. Angestellte, die über 120'000 Franken verdienen, müssen ihre Stunden gar nicht mehr erfassen, sofern ein GAV dies vorsieht. Wer weniger verdient, muss nur noch die Gesamtdauer der täglichen Arbeitszeit festhalten."



http://www.srf.ch/news/schweiz/pflic...wird-gelockert
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Old 11.11.2015, 11:53
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Re: automatically deducted lunch hours

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Depends whether his employer has some kind of flexi-time procedure in place or not. Many companies allow you to go + or - by a defined number of hours (+60 and -10, in my case). Extra hours can be taken as days off, if you have accumulated enough.
Nope!
The legal break is a requirement after a set of hours worked.
The flexibility spread over days is ok, but still the "breaks" are mandatory.

It's in Swiss law, "Code du Travail", art. 15...
https://www.admin.ch/opc/fr/classifi...049/index.html
(it's in French, google it).

To be accurate, the working day is longer than 7 hours then 30min break is mandatory.
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Old 11.11.2015, 11:56
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Re: automatically deducted lunch hours

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Starting 1 January 2016 employee time recording is to be loosened as follows:

1) Employees earning more than CHF 120'000 p.A. must no longer record their time unless a GAV requires it.
2) Employees earning less than CHF 120'000 p.A. must record only their entire work time for the day.

"Neue Regeln ab 2016 Angestellte müssen ihre Arbeitszeit nicht mehr lückenlos dokumentieren. Der Bundesrat lockert die Vorschriften zur Arbeitszeiterfassung. Angestellte, die über 120'000 Franken verdienen, müssen ihre Stunden gar nicht mehr erfassen, sofern ein GAV dies vorsieht. Wer weniger verdient, muss nur noch die Gesamtdauer der täglichen Arbeitszeit festhalten."



http://www.srf.ch/news/schweiz/pflic...wird-gelockert
It's about "recording time" not about breaks...Even without recording the time, it's mandatory to respect the legal breaks... But then it's not recorded so I guess it's hard to enforce. Nonetheless it does not void the law and it's illegal not to take the breaks.
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Old 11.11.2015, 11:58
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Re: automatically deducted lunch hours

Simple ..

Take 30mins back by reading the newspaper and posting on EF each day.


Your welcome
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Old 11.11.2015, 11:59
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Re: automatically deducted lunch hours

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Nope!
The legal break is a requirement after a set of hours worked.
The flexibility spread over days is ok, but still the "breaks" are mandatory.

It's in Swiss law, "Code du Travail", art. 15...
https://www.admin.ch/opc/fr/classifi...049/index.html
(it's in French, google it).

To be accurate, the working day is longer than 7 hours then 30min break is mandatory.
I never said it wasn't, see my previous post. We were discussing whether he can leave early or not; the flexi-time package doesn't affect the legally required breaks.
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Old 11.11.2015, 12:12
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Re: automatically deducted lunch hours

Just for the record: the legal changes to Jan 2016 are just the legal minimum, nothing else. This law is changes to make it easier for companies who don't need to or want to document more... it does not mean that you as an amployee have a right to not document your hours. I have worked in consulting where you need to track every 15 mins spend on a customer... and I do not think this is changed through this law.
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Old 11.11.2015, 13:11
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Re: automatically deducted lunch hours

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Just for the record: the legal changes to Jan 2016 are just the legal minimum, nothing else. This law is changes to make it easier for companies who don't need to or want to document more... it does not mean that you as an amployee have a right to not document your hours. I have worked in consulting where you need to track every 15 mins spend on a customer... and I do not think this is changed through this law.
Which is probably a good thing; if you can't track time to bill to clients, the whole consulting model kind of falls apart. ;-)
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