Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Employment
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 16.11.2015, 17:12
Divesnowboy's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Konwileggdorf
Posts: 484
Groaned at 5 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 353 Times in 166 Posts
Divesnowboy has an excellent reputationDivesnowboy has an excellent reputationDivesnowboy has an excellent reputationDivesnowboy has an excellent reputation
Paying RAV back...

I was unemployed for the month of August in Kanton Zurich and received RAV. I made around 16 job applications and in my line of work, Aerospace Engineering, there aren't too many jobs about.
My RAV Contact also thought I should applying using a fancy portfolio or something.
I have been contracting now in Aerospace since 1997 and all my jobs have come via Telephone, word of mouth or Email, and she did not understand this, but clearly I have been unemployed for 6 months in the last 18 years...most of that time, voluntarily.
Half way through August I got word I should start something, in Zurich, in September and got confirmation a week later. Therefore I stopped applying for jobs.
I told the agent at RAV this, saying, I didn't want to waste other potential companies time and also kill a chance for someone else knowing I had a job in the bag already.
A week or so ago I got a letter from the Kasse stating I should pay back 10 days worth of RAV payments because of lack of Applications. :-(
Have any of you had any experience with this and, or is there any defence against it?
I have been communicating with the Kasse as to the reasons why etc....
Thanks in advance for any information that may appease this situation.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Divesnowboy for this useful post:
  #2  
Old 16.11.2015, 17:40
Treverus's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: SZ
Posts: 9,269
Groaned at 215 Times in 178 Posts
Thanked 16,472 Times in 6,017 Posts
Treverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Paying RAV back...

Quote:
View Post
Have any of you had any experience with this and, or is there any defence against it?
Last time I dealt with them is a few years back, but this being Switzerland do the principles hardly change. I found a new job after being about two weeks with the RAV. Naturally wanted the new employer to hire me to the beginning of the next month. That's how payrolls work... but not the RAV. I had to confirm to them that I offered to start working earlier and that the company "for administrative reasons" would only hire me in two weeks time... and yes, they made me write applications for this two weeks although I already had accepted an offer and there was no way I could possibly be employed earlier.

So it is the normal insanity of their system.
__________________
There is a special place in Hull reserved for the guy who invented autocorrect.

Last edited by Treverus; 17.11.2015 at 11:49.
Reply With Quote
The following 9 users would like to thank Treverus for this useful post:
  #3  
Old 16.11.2015, 17:43
Loz1983's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 1,061
Groaned at 294 Times in 171 Posts
Thanked 5,150 Times in 1,843 Posts
Loz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Paying RAV back...

Quote:
View Post
Last time I dealt with them is a few years back, but this being Switzerland do the principles hardly changed. I found a new job after being about two weeks with the RAV. Naturally wanted the new employer to hire me to the beginning of the next month. That's how payrolls work... but not the RAV. I had to confirm to them that I offered to start working earlier and that the company "for administrative reasons" would only hire me in two weeks time... and yes, they made me write applications for this two weeks although I already had accepted an offer and there was no way I could possibly be employed earlier.

So it is the normal insanity of their system.
Good grief, what kind of people must they employ?! Sounds like they have all transferable skills required to work at a US immigration desk.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Loz1983 for this useful post:
  #4  
Old 16.11.2015, 18:05
Divesnowboy's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Konwileggdorf
Posts: 484
Groaned at 5 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 353 Times in 166 Posts
Divesnowboy has an excellent reputationDivesnowboy has an excellent reputationDivesnowboy has an excellent reputationDivesnowboy has an excellent reputation
Re: Paying RAV back...

Thing is, I was completely honest about the whole thing and the RAV agent seemed happy for me, congratulated me then wished me all the best...in German of course.
Then I got a sharp tickle in my back a month later, that seems very typical here...bunch of smiling assassins.
Reply With Quote
This user groans at Divesnowboy for this post:
  #5  
Old 16.11.2015, 23:24
MsWorWoo's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Zürich Nord
Posts: 1,484
Groaned at 47 Times in 27 Posts
Thanked 2,213 Times in 866 Posts
MsWorWoo has a reputation beyond reputeMsWorWoo has a reputation beyond reputeMsWorWoo has a reputation beyond reputeMsWorWoo has a reputation beyond reputeMsWorWoo has a reputation beyond reputeMsWorWoo has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Paying RAV back...

Not just the RAV, when I was unemployed in the UK in '07 (before the current insanity) I had to prove I was job searching up to the day before I started work. The rational is that you are being paid to search for a job, not for being unemployed. Mostly they are set up so that you can work anyday, hence the no holidays and having childcare rules. They can not distinguish between a casual labourer who can be called on site in an hour and rocket scientists or academics who are likely to be given weeks or even months (in my case) of notice before the job starts. Tough, I know, but their rational is that you could work as a temp during that time, unless you don't want to look for work, so why should they pay you to look for work.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 16.11.2015, 23:55
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Zurich
Posts: 9,177
Groaned at 528 Times in 400 Posts
Thanked 11,930 Times in 4,669 Posts
Richdog has a reputation beyond reputeRichdog has a reputation beyond reputeRichdog has a reputation beyond reputeRichdog has a reputation beyond reputeRichdog has a reputation beyond reputeRichdog has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Paying RAV back...

Quote:
View Post
I was unemployed for the month of August in Kanton Zurich and received RAV. I made around 16 job applications and in my line of work, Aerospace Engineering, there aren't too many jobs about.
My RAV Contact also thought I should applying using a fancy portfolio or something.
I have been contracting now in Aerospace since 1997 and all my jobs have come via Telephone, word of mouth or Email, and she did not understand this, but clearly I have been unemployed for 6 months in the last 18 years...most of that time, voluntarily.
Half way through August I got word I should start something, in Zurich, in September and got confirmation a week later. Therefore I stopped applying for jobs.
I told the agent at RAV this, saying, I didn't want to waste other potential companies time and also kill a chance for someone else knowing I had a job in the bag already.
A week or so ago I got a letter from the Kasse stating I should pay back 10 days worth of RAV payments because of lack of Applications. :-(
Have any of you had any experience with this and, or is there any defence against it?
I have been communicating with the Kasse as to the reasons why etc....
Thanks in advance for any information that may appease this situation.
You were told to apply for jobs for the whole month, it is pretty much the single KPI that they use to decide to give you your money during those 18 months. The moment you stopped applying was the moment that in their eyes you stopped earning RAV.

It may not be logical, but those were the rules, and all you had to do was follow them for 10 more days.

You live and learn.
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank Richdog for this useful post:
  #7  
Old 17.11.2015, 08:01
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Zurich
Posts: 209
Groaned at 21 Times in 5 Posts
Thanked 285 Times in 120 Posts
marischi has earned the respect of manymarischi has earned the respect of manymarischi has earned the respect of many
Re: Paying RAV back...

I'm just very happy to hear that my taxes are not squandered on people who think they are smarter than the RAV.
Reply With Quote
The following 7 users groan at marischi for this post:
  #8  
Old 17.11.2015, 08:16
22 yards's Avatar
Only in moderation
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Basel-Land
Posts: 6,610
Groaned at 188 Times in 147 Posts
Thanked 10,973 Times in 4,532 Posts
22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Paying RAV back...

Quote:
View Post
I'm just very happy to hear that my taxes are not squandered on people who think they are smarter than the RAV.
Your taxes? Is that how you think unemployment payments are funded?
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank 22 yards for this useful post:
  #9  
Old 17.11.2015, 08:24
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Zurich
Posts: 209
Groaned at 21 Times in 5 Posts
Thanked 285 Times in 120 Posts
marischi has earned the respect of manymarischi has earned the respect of manymarischi has earned the respect of many
Re: Paying RAV back...

You're right. But I pay the poor girl/guy who works at the RAV who have to put up with those people and have to manage tedious paperwork just because of adults who behave like schoolchildren playing truant - and then complain....
Reply With Quote
The following 9 users groan at marischi for this post:
  #10  
Old 17.11.2015, 08:46
Divesnowboy's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Konwileggdorf
Posts: 484
Groaned at 5 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 353 Times in 166 Posts
Divesnowboy has an excellent reputationDivesnowboy has an excellent reputationDivesnowboy has an excellent reputationDivesnowboy has an excellent reputation
Re: Paying RAV back...

Quote:
View Post
You're right. But I pay the poor girl/guy who works at the RAV who have to put up with those people and have to manage tedious paperwork just because of adults who behave like schoolchildren playing truant - and then complain....
Behave like school children? (2 words by the way) Besides grammar, you're reading comprehension has a lot left to be desired also....somewhat that of a child who goes to primary school.
So I suggest you read the post, absorb it and try to understand what is being written.
Where in that post did I write I was trying to lie or cheat the RAV?
So you would agree that to keep applying for jobs, wasting other companies time and potentially halting someone else from getting that position?
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Divesnowboy for this useful post:
This user groans at Divesnowboy for this post:
  #11  
Old 17.11.2015, 09:05
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Albisrieden
Posts: 3,832
Groaned at 93 Times in 62 Posts
Thanked 5,376 Times in 2,002 Posts
nickatbasel has a reputation beyond reputenickatbasel has a reputation beyond reputenickatbasel has a reputation beyond reputenickatbasel has a reputation beyond reputenickatbasel has a reputation beyond reputenickatbasel has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Paying RAV back...

OP:So if it's the job you really want, spend the rest of the 10 days applying for jobs you have no chance of getting like brain surgeon, chief physicist at CERN, commander in chief of the Swiss Army etc etc. Well done and good luck in your new job.

Quote:
View Post
Your taxes? Is that how you think unemployment payments are funded?
It's only his taxes. Our taxes go on other stuff like infrastructure, education etc.

Cheers,
Nick
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank nickatbasel for this useful post:
  #12  
Old 17.11.2015, 09:12
22 yards's Avatar
Only in moderation
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Basel-Land
Posts: 6,610
Groaned at 188 Times in 147 Posts
Thanked 10,973 Times in 4,532 Posts
22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Paying RAV back...

Wow... People in glass houses...

"Schoolchildren" is correct. Don't take my word for it, though.

Then, of course, there's your hilariously, unintentionally ironic primary school-level spelling and grammar...
Quote:
View Post
Behave like school children? (2 words by the way) Besides grammar, you're reading comprehension has a lot left to be desired also....somewhat that of a child who goes to primary school.
So I suggest you read the post, absorb it and try to understand what is being written.
Where in that post did I write I was trying to lie or cheat the RAV?
So you would agree that to keep applying for jobs, wasting other companies time and potentially halting someone else from getting that position?
The last phrase isn't a sentence, by the way. It's incomplete and doesn't make sense.

Must do better. Now correct all your mistakes and resubmit your work.

Last edited by 22 yards; 17.11.2015 at 09:25.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank 22 yards for this useful post:
  #13  
Old 17.11.2015, 09:20
dodgyken's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Democratic Republic Kenistan
Posts: 9,806
Groaned at 340 Times in 276 Posts
Thanked 17,425 Times in 6,661 Posts
dodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Paying RAV back...

Quote:
View Post
Must do better. Now correct all your mistakes and resubmit your work.
Is it not companies' time?

IE the time of multiple companies
Company's time - time of a single company
Companies - plural of company
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank dodgyken for this useful post:
  #14  
Old 17.11.2015, 09:21
Divesnowboy's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Konwileggdorf
Posts: 484
Groaned at 5 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 353 Times in 166 Posts
Divesnowboy has an excellent reputationDivesnowboy has an excellent reputationDivesnowboy has an excellent reputationDivesnowboy has an excellent reputation
Re: Paying RAV back...

Quote:
View Post
Wow... People in glass houses...

"Schoolchildren" is correct. Don't take my word for it, though.

Then, of course, there's your hilariously, unintentionally ironic primary school-level spelling and grammar...


Must do better. Now correct all your mistakes and resubmit your work.
It's still a bit early...damn. I pride myself on my English grammar!
Thanks for taking the time out of your day to make the corrections.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Divesnowboy for this useful post:
  #15  
Old 17.11.2015, 09:22
22 yards's Avatar
Only in moderation
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Basel-Land
Posts: 6,610
Groaned at 188 Times in 147 Posts
Thanked 10,973 Times in 4,532 Posts
22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Paying RAV back...

Quote:
View Post
Is it not companies' time?

IE the time of multiple companies
Company's time - time of a single company
Companies - plural of company
Yes -- all the bolded parts of my post contain errors.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 17.11.2015, 09:29
Divesnowboy's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Konwileggdorf
Posts: 484
Groaned at 5 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 353 Times in 166 Posts
Divesnowboy has an excellent reputationDivesnowboy has an excellent reputationDivesnowboy has an excellent reputationDivesnowboy has an excellent reputation
Re: Paying RAV back...

Quote:
View Post
OP:So if it's the job you really want, spend the rest of the 10 days applying for jobs you have no chance of getting like brain surgeon, chief physicist at CERN, commander in chief of the Swiss Army etc etc. Well done and good luck in your new job.



It's only his taxes. Our taxes go on other stuff like infrastructure, education etc.

Cheers,
Nick
Cheers Nick and the job is very good.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 17.11.2015, 09:32
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Bern
Posts: 98
Groaned at 6 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 122 Times in 50 Posts
Krist has earned some respectKrist has earned some respect
Re: Paying RAV back...

I think you should contest it. I've been there. But maybe Bern is different.
In April I lost my job when my employer went bankrupt. I found a job again quite quickly, and started working in July.

At the beginning of each month the RAV send me a form to fill out, to document my job searching efforts.
In my April and May forms I filled out all the applications I had made, and ticked the box that I was still unemployed.
On the June form I just ticked the box that I had accepted new employment and mentioned the start date. I also contacted my case worker and told him I had accepted work.

As I understand it, the moment you accept work you are absolved of applying for jobs, as long as the starting date is within a month. In my case I got all my payments without issue. I took advantage of not having to apply for jobs in May to go and travel a bit.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Krist for this useful post:
  #18  
Old 17.11.2015, 09:48
22 yards's Avatar
Only in moderation
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Basel-Land
Posts: 6,610
Groaned at 188 Times in 147 Posts
Thanked 10,973 Times in 4,532 Posts
22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Paying RAV back...

Ah, Richdog, how cute -- a drive-by groan for my post about grammarians living in glass houses. Truly the mark of the ignorant: you don't understand basic grammar, so you hit the groan button. Even Divesnowboy took the criticism in good grace.

Maybe you should leave grown-up writing to the grown-ups, hmmm?
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank 22 yards for this useful post:
This user groans at 22 yards for this post:
  #19  
Old 17.11.2015, 11:01
Divesnowboy's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Konwileggdorf
Posts: 484
Groaned at 5 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 353 Times in 166 Posts
Divesnowboy has an excellent reputationDivesnowboy has an excellent reputationDivesnowboy has an excellent reputationDivesnowboy has an excellent reputation
Re: Paying RAV back...

Quote:
View Post
I think you should contest it.
In the process of that, thanks Krist.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 17.11.2015, 11:10
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 13,746
Groaned at 209 Times in 181 Posts
Thanked 11,059 Times in 6,273 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Paying RAV back...

Quote:
View Post
Your taxes? Is that how you think unemployment payments are funded?
1/3 insurance & 2/3 AHV, as neither are voluntary then tax is not far from the truth.
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
RAV - baby sick = RAV meeting Switzerland12 Employment 7 16.09.2014 12:11
Resignation, notice period and paying back moving costs robban Employment 8 25.10.2013 10:08
Swiss company not paying back "loan" Alex999 Finance/banking/taxation 4 02.09.2012 21:47
Leaving CH for a job while on RAV and coming back‏ Bub72 Employment 4 14.09.2010 22:03
tax returns- for getting money back....not paying heatherC Finance/banking/taxation 2 03.02.2010 17:04


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 22:02.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0