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  #21  
Old 01.12.2015, 00:18
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Re: *** Letter of Recommendation ***

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Isn't a certificate enough, especially if the applicant held many jobs after graduation ?
It depends. In 99%, I never get asked for such but tomorrow I'm interviewing with someone who had asked last week.

TIS
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  #22  
Old 01.12.2015, 00:18
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Re: *** Letter of Recommendation ***

Is the "letter of recommendations" the "work certificate" ?
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  #23  
Old 01.12.2015, 00:20
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Re: *** Letter of Recommendation ***

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Is the "letter of recommendations" the "work certificate" ?
Yes it is. All depends on wording. Back in RSA, we call it "letter of recommendation" but here it has the same meaning as work certificate i.e. in German Zeugniss.

From some companies you can also request either interim "letter of reference" (Zwischenzeugniss) or final "letter of reference" (Finalzeugniss) or both constituting integral part of your one Zeugniss. It depends if you worked in one or several different departments in the same company. Complicated, I know ...

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  #24  
Old 01.12.2015, 00:29
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Re: *** Letter of Recommendation ***

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If a CV makes it to my desk without all the Swiss documentation (letters of reference, transcripts, motivation letter, etc) I bin it, most of the time. Either the applicant hasn't learned the local culture and habits, or he / she has something to hide.

That said, HR is under instruction to always go back to the candidate if the package is not complete these days. I can't be bothered with it...
Local culture... Sounds like my time in SLC where all the faithful made sure there was a casual reference under the Hobbies/Personal section to let us know they were part of "the club".
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  #25  
Old 01.12.2015, 00:38
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Re: *** Letter of Recommendation ***

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Local culture... Sounds like my time in SLC where all the faithful made sure there was a casual reference under the Hobbies/Personal section to let us know they were part of "the club".
That was covered in Marital status : Married (name of spouses, ranked by importance) + very long list of kids.
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  #26  
Old 01.12.2015, 00:47
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Re: *** Letter of Recommendation ***

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That was covered in Marital status : Married (name of spouses, ranked by importance) + very long list of kids.
Foreign languages: Swahili - 2 years immersion with daily interaction
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  #27  
Old 01.12.2015, 10:42
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Re: *** Letter of Recommendation ***

MNC: no
Small to medium-sized and/or more local company: yes
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  #28  
Old 01.12.2015, 10:50
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Re: *** Letter of Recommendation ***

Yes.

(we need a poll!)

Re. no for MNC. Why? When I loaded my details on to various MNC job hunting databases, they ask for all certificates, papers & letters to be attached. Swiss culture (and don't forget most MNCs HR departments are staffed by locals) expects you to provide copies of everything with the application. All that points to a big YES for me.
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  #29  
Old 01.12.2015, 10:55
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Re: *** Letter of Recommendation ***

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Isn't a certificate enough, especially if the applicant held many jobs after graduation ?
Especially if one graduated 30+ years ago, and no longer has them lying around?

Tom
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  #30  
Old 01.12.2015, 11:28
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Re: *** Letter of Recommendation ***

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Yes.

(we need a poll!)

Re. no for MNC. Why? When I loaded my details on to various MNC job hunting databases, they ask for all certificates, papers & letters to be attached. Swiss culture (and don't forget most MNCs HR departments are staffed by locals) expects you to provide copies of everything with the application. All that points to a big YES for me.
Nope, MNC's HR departments are not mainly staffed by locals and, more importantly, prescreening and often even first-round interviews are mostly (and sadly, I might add) outsourced and/or offshored anyway. Hence it's useless to attach very Swiss stuff as most who see the applications will have not the slightest clue what a 'Arbeitszeugnis' is. If it is mandatory to add something I probably would do so, if only for good measure. But it's definitely not necessary.
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  #31  
Old 01.12.2015, 11:33
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Re: *** Letter of Recommendation ***

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Especially if one graduated 30+ years ago, and no longer has them lying around?

Tom
Simple, forge them.
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  #32  
Old 01.12.2015, 11:58
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Re: *** Letter of Recommendation ***

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Isn't a certificate enough, especially if the applicant held many jobs after graduation ?
In my role, I hire a lot of people with 0-3 years experience. Beyond that, I tend not to look at transcripts, unless the candidate comes from a company without a strong reputation; in such a case, I'll still use the grades as an additional filter.
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  #33  
Old 01.12.2015, 12:27
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Re: *** Letter of Recommendation ***

Remember that the review process works both ways - you're also checking out the company from their response.

If a company rejects my application because I didn't attach my school certificates, that is the correct result for all concerned.
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  #34  
Old 01.12.2015, 12:36
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Re: *** Letter of Recommendation ***

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Simple, forge them.
Do you know a good printer ?
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  #35  
Old 01.12.2015, 12:48
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Re: *** Letter of Recommendation ***

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Nope, MNC's HR departments are not mainly staffed by locals and, more importantly, prescreening and often even first-round interviews are mostly (and sadly, I might add) outsourced and/or offshored anyway. Hence it's useless to attach very Swiss stuff as most who see the applications will have not the slightest clue what a 'Arbeitszeugnis' is. If it is mandatory to add something I probably would do so, if only for good measure. But it's definitely not necessary.
Well, in that case we'll have to completely disagree.

What you describe in your generalizations is not at all what I've seen & experienced at the various MNCs (pharma) I've interviewed in/at CH. (Nor, I might add when I have been part of the recruitment process.)

In pretty much every case, HR has been local talent - usually applying their local preferences - while the "business end" of the business is where your international talent sits.
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  #36  
Old 01.12.2015, 13:10
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Re: *** Letter of Recommendation ***

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Simple, forge them.
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Do you know a good printer ?
Unless of course you are joking, I don't think it's a good idea to forge someone's certificates and any sort of cheating for that matter ...

It might get someone a job or thru the door to the company. However, once that someone's skills are required, he/she won't survive long or if thru the probation period.
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  #37  
Old 01.12.2015, 13:13
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Re: *** Letter of Recommendation ***

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Well, in that case we'll have to completely disagree.

What you describe in your generalizations is not at all what I've seen & experienced at the various MNCs (pharma) I've interviewed in/at CH. (Nor, I might add when I have been part of the recruitment process.)

In pretty much every case, HR has been local talent - usually applying their local preferences - while the "business end" of the business is where your international talent sits.
I guess it depends a lot on the company. Some US based companies are very US-oriented here even if they have small offices, others that have high concentration of Swiss staff get to have "swiss-ified" units in CH, and then there are the oddballs where you get all kinds of people doing all kinds of things and within the same company different HR people and different hiring managers are all over the place and can't even agree on a common approach...

All in all, job hunting sucks big fat hairy sweaty balls.
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  #38  
Old 01.12.2015, 13:14
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Re: *** Letter of Recommendation ***

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Unless of course you are joking, I don't think it's a good idea to forge someone's certificates and any sort of cheating for that matter ...

It might get someone a job or thru the door to the company. However, once that someone's skills are required, he/she won't survive long or if thru the probation period.
And in some cases there are background checks and they do happen.
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  #39  
Old 01.12.2015, 14:08
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Re: *** Letter of Recommendation ***

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Unless of course you are joking, I don't think it's a good idea to forge someone's certificates and any sort of cheating for that matter ...

It might get someone a job or thru the door to the company. However, once that someone's skills are required, he/she won't survive long or if thru the probation period.
Slammer was an offset printer a while ago.....
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  #40  
Old 01.12.2015, 14:09
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Re: *** Letter of Recommendation ***

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Slammer was an offset printer a while ago.....
As well as a doctor, an astronaut and a pirate captain according to his certificates...
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