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  #21  
Old 20.12.2015, 13:37
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Re: Salaries sinking?

Maybe I was lucky so far but after being here a bit more than a year and already changed jobs, both roles had quite good pay and pay raises were normal.

But I am sure this is more about the nature of IT rather than the Swiss market. Especially software development (experienced) will always be paid a bit better than your usual IT roles in support etc

While searching it wasn't hard to find roles, pay almost the same everywhere though. But opportunities were still there.

P.S There were layoffs though. Some people were fired but those who stayed wouldn't have their salary decreased.
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  #22  
Old 20.12.2015, 13:49
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Re: Salaries sinking?

It depends very much on the industry/field- some have been affected more strongly by the strong franc which is now combined with the drop in the Chinese market (luxury watch industry) as well as having plenty of frontalier work-force.
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  #23  
Old 20.12.2015, 14:51
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Re: Salaries sinking?

In engineering with my qualifications, I didn't notice significant salary drop. However number of people hired has shrunk and competition has grown.
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  #24  
Old 20.12.2015, 15:59
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Re: Salaries sinking?

with between 120 to over 300 applicants per new role its pretty easy to start thinking about offering less pay.

Also a grad entry here costs 2-3 experienced people in Germany or in the UK i can staff up grads with better experience than even regulars here and have a vast array of languages covered.

I also think the swiss lack skills for a modern economy and lots of the expat skills can and are being covered by nearshore
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  #25  
Old 20.12.2015, 16:12
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Re: Salaries sinking?

Out of curiosity: which roles get 300 applicants?
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  #26  
Old 20.12.2015, 16:35
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Re: Salaries sinking?

Subjectively, based on what I've seen in my area amongst my contacts.. yes salaries (and certainly contract rates) have come down.. but.. so have living costs

Alternatively.. you could consider the 'big picture' stats that show fairly flat wage movement

http://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfs/portal/e..._und_real.html

http://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfs/portal/e...k/data/00.html
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  #27  
Old 20.12.2015, 17:03
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Re: Salaries sinking?

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Out of curiosity: which roles get 300 applicants?
Marketing co-ordinator
Marketing Manager
Grad program
and a couple of others but low hundreds seems the norm for non specialised roles
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  #28  
Old 20.12.2015, 17:10
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Re: Salaries sinking?

1. I think it's a myth that employees are so much more expensive in Switzerland. Yes, salaries are high, but social insurances, taxes and what not else are lower for employers than in any surrounding country. On top of that do they not face any of those pesky labor protection laws you can find in pretty much any country more developed than Bangladesh... so it is much easier to run a business and hire when you need to - because you know you can get rid of employees as soon as you cannot afford them anymore. Try that in Germany or let alone Italy.

2. That strong Swiss Franc argument... well: the CHF has been high for years, hasn't it? I think a lot of the companies downsizing find it much easier to blame the economy than their management...

3. I love the google story. "If we don't get the laws we want will we move all the jobs to London"... guess what: I've been to London recently and picked up some local newspapers. Want to know what the bosses there say? "If the people vote for a Brexit will 100k jobs be moved to places like Switzerland!"...

Long story short: I am currently applying for some jobs. Last time I did that in CH was about six years ago. Back then was the effect of the economic crisis in full swing and while jobs were well paid was it pretty impossible to get an interview... took me seven months to find something. This time round did people call back as soon as I applied - so there are way more jobs out there. So far can I say that the prices for IT contracting have taken a big hit, but permanent positions in Zurich seem to be roughly around the same numbers they were back then.
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  #29  
Old 20.12.2015, 17:18
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Re: Salaries sinking?

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I am currently applying for some jobs
You wanna come back?
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  #30  
Old 20.12.2015, 17:25
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Re: Salaries sinking?

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You wanna come back?
I am in Switzerland since summer... (working on a contract basis remotely with some IT company in Asia... major pain, so now looking for something local.)
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  #31  
Old 20.12.2015, 17:28
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Re: Salaries sinking?

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with between 120 to over 300 applicants per new role its pretty easy to start thinking about offering less pay.

Also a grad entry here costs 2-3 experienced people in Germany or in the UK i can staff up grads with better experience than even regulars here and have a vast array of languages covered.

I also think the swiss lack skills for a modern economy and lots of the expat skills can and are being covered by nearshore
You couldn't be further from the truth. Cost of a role in CH is almost the same as London for an employer. In some cantons it's even less than London.
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  #32  
Old 20.12.2015, 17:38
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Re: Salaries sinking?

considering ongoing deflation your chf is becoming more valuable every year. so same salary will buy you more. not 20% more...

it is the same as salary increases and inflation. it does feel different though
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  #33  
Old 20.12.2015, 20:52
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Re: Salaries sinking?

AFAIK, the stagnation of salaries is quite general, e.g. in the US. So what we're discussing here isn't especially Swiss. The recovery, such as it is, has mostly resulted in more jobs, but not better living standards. In Marxist terms, Capital has won.
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  #34  
Old 20.12.2015, 21:57
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Re: Salaries sinking?

Google Switzerland might take note that the UK is proposing limiting the number of intra-company transfers of non-EU tech workers, according to an article in the FT called "Plan for UK visa clampdown threatens tech companies" (paywalled). All is not better in London:

"By country, India is top, accounting for 31,093 sponsored skilled visa applications in the year to September, followed by the US with 6,533. Companies including Infosys, Wipro and Tata Consultancy Services from India and Accenture and IBM from the US are likely to be hardest hit."
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  #35  
Old 20.12.2015, 22:10
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Re: Salaries sinking?

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You couldn't be further from the truth. Cost of a role in CH is almost the same as London for an employer. In some cantons it's even less than London.
Agree with this. End to end cost for an fte in London is more or less the same as ch. Nearshore is the primary risk.
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  #36  
Old 20.12.2015, 22:19
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Re: Salaries sinking?

Company I know in Basel has "nearshored" one of its teams to ... Manchester.
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  #37  
Old 20.12.2015, 22:32
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Re: Salaries sinking?

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Company I know in Basel has "nearshored" one of its teams to ... Manchester.
That's different, the team's chief wanted back to Manchester when he realized there is no Canal street in Basel.
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  #38  
Old 20.12.2015, 22:32
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Re: Salaries sinking?

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Company I know in Basel has "nearshored" one of its teams to ... Manchester.
I guess it's a challenge to build up a team in a third world country, but once you succeed are people most likely more loyal than in London...
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  #39  
Old 20.12.2015, 22:35
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Re: Salaries sinking?

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I guess it's a challenge to build up a team in a third world country, but once you succeed are people most likely more loyal than in London...
Are you saying Manchester is third world?
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  #40  
Old 20.12.2015, 22:40
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Re: Salaries sinking?

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I guess it's a challenge to build up a team in a third world country, but once you succeed are people most likely more loyal than in London...
No I'd completely disagree. We use extensive near and offshoring and the primary issue is turnover and employee retention. In up and coming economies employees move at the drop of a hat for a better rate. It's one the main thing a that holds the countries back from truly competing with London, Geneva, Zurich etc
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