Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Employment
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 20.12.2015, 05:45
Karl's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Here
Posts: 1,710
Groaned at 173 Times in 77 Posts
Thanked 2,485 Times in 804 Posts
Karl has a reputation beyond reputeKarl has a reputation beyond reputeKarl has a reputation beyond reputeKarl has a reputation beyond reputeKarl has a reputation beyond reputeKarl has a reputation beyond repute
Salaries sinking?

So, after a 7-year stint at my previous employer making the proverbial 120K+, my job was "outsourced" (actually replaced by the same function internally but at an EU subsidiary where they can pay much less).

After much scrambling, nail-biting and interviewing, I landed a new job... but had to accept 20% less than what I was making before.

Is this a sign of the times? Competition from EU migrants, the strong Swiss Franc... kids fresh out of university... all accepting far less than what I have been used to in the past.

Anyone else feeling this downwards pressure on salaries?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 20.12.2015, 07:15
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Vaud
Posts: 2,900
Groaned at 97 Times in 46 Posts
Thanked 1,932 Times in 921 Posts
Anthony1406 has a reputation beyond reputeAnthony1406 has a reputation beyond reputeAnthony1406 has a reputation beyond reputeAnthony1406 has a reputation beyond reputeAnthony1406 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Salaries sinking?

Yup. Upon our return also 20%less (and I was nowhere near the 120k) Same for my wife....
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Anthony1406 for this useful post:
  #3  
Old 20.12.2015, 09:25
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: SZ
Posts: 7,617
Groaned at 18 Times in 17 Posts
Thanked 15,926 Times in 5,233 Posts
meloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Salaries sinking?

That salaries are falling is the elephant in the room.

No one wants to talk about it for fear that they themselves will be next.

The writing is on the wall, though...

For a long time Swiss salaries were sustained by consumers willing to pay high prices. And in the purely domestic market the willingness is still more or less there.

But today many companies' business is largely with customers abroad. The claim/myth of 'Swiss quality' sustained high prices and thus salaries for some time, but today that's largely gone with competition producing equal (or better) goods and services at lower prices.

Swiss salaries are too high to compete in today's global marketplace.

Many companies are under extreme cost pressure, the most glaring cost is labor. An MNC looks at salaries in Switzerland vs salaries in other locations and if a return justifying those higher wages is not clearly evident cuts have to be made.

Given the economies of much of the rest of the EU, even at reduced salaries there are plenty of qualified folk still willing to move here for less. Or stay at home, where the no-longer-Swiss job has now been moved.

Interesting times ahead...

Last edited by meloncollie; 20.12.2015 at 09:37.
Reply With Quote
The following 22 users would like to thank meloncollie for this useful post:
  #4  
Old 20.12.2015, 09:38
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Vaud
Posts: 1,948
Groaned at 127 Times in 89 Posts
Thanked 3,509 Times in 1,338 Posts
Mikers has a reputation beyond reputeMikers has a reputation beyond reputeMikers has a reputation beyond reputeMikers has a reputation beyond reputeMikers has a reputation beyond reputeMikers has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Salaries sinking?

Quote:
View Post
That salaries are falling is the elephant in the room.

It's plain to see what is happening but no one wants to talk about it for fear that they themselves will be next.

The writing is on the wall, though...

For a long time Swiss salaries were sustained by consumers willing to pay high prices. And in the purely domestic market the willingness is still more or less there.

But today many companies' business is largely with customers abroad. The claim/myth of 'Swiss quality' sustained high prices and thus salaries for some time, but today that's largely gone with competition producing equal (or better) goods and services at lower prices.

Swiss salaries are too high to compete in today's global marketplace.

Many companies are under extreme cost pressure, the most glaring cost is labor. An MNC looks at salaries in Switzerland vs salaries in other locations and if a return justifying those higher wages is not clearly evident cuts have to be made.

Given the economies of much of the rest of the EU, even at reduced salaries there are plenty of qualified folk still willing to move here for less. Or stay at home, where the no-longer-Swiss job has now been moved.

Interesting times ahead...
Which in turn is a worry for the housing market because if wages fall house prices must logically follow suit.
Reply With Quote
The following 7 users would like to thank Mikers for this useful post:
  #5  
Old 20.12.2015, 09:52
roegner's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Zurich
Posts: 3,057
Groaned at 88 Times in 66 Posts
Thanked 3,089 Times in 1,583 Posts
roegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Salaries sinking?

Same experience here on the salary side
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 20.12.2015, 10:24
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: ZH
Posts: 4,445
Groaned at 55 Times in 45 Posts
Thanked 2,164 Times in 1,311 Posts
SOBEIT has a reputation beyond reputeSOBEIT has a reputation beyond reputeSOBEIT has a reputation beyond reputeSOBEIT has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Salaries sinking?

Count yourself lucky you're employed, I know I'm grateful for my salary even if it has stayed at a level par.
Reply With Quote
The following 6 users would like to thank SOBEIT for this useful post:
  #7  
Old 20.12.2015, 10:44
roegner's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Zurich
Posts: 3,057
Groaned at 88 Times in 66 Posts
Thanked 3,089 Times in 1,583 Posts
roegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Salaries sinking?

I am grateful! I had to start looking for a new job this year as my previous employer closed down the offices in Switzerland and with a "5" in my age I wasn´t too much looking forward applying for a new job. So yes, I am happy to have found another one even if the salary is lower!
Reply With Quote
The following 9 users would like to thank roegner for this useful post:
  #8  
Old 20.12.2015, 11:21
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Aargau
Posts: 1,560
Groaned at 12 Times in 11 Posts
Thanked 1,810 Times in 881 Posts
Mullhollander has a reputation beyond reputeMullhollander has a reputation beyond reputeMullhollander has a reputation beyond reputeMullhollander has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Salaries sinking?

Google Switzerland is complaining about the high labor costs in Switzerland and difficulties to obtain work permits for new (non-EU) hires. Engineers cost 20-30% more in Zurich than in London and, due to this and the immigration issues, Google is expanding its London center:

https://translate.google.de/translat...322&edit-text=
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Mullhollander for this useful post:
  #9  
Old 20.12.2015, 12:16
Captain Greybeard's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Sarganserland / NW Lower Peninsula of NE US Midwest
Posts: 3,183
Groaned at 40 Times in 34 Posts
Thanked 6,416 Times in 2,036 Posts
Captain Greybeard has a reputation beyond reputeCaptain Greybeard has a reputation beyond reputeCaptain Greybeard has a reputation beyond reputeCaptain Greybeard has a reputation beyond reputeCaptain Greybeard has a reputation beyond reputeCaptain Greybeard has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Salaries sinking?

Quote:
View Post
Google Switzerland is complaining about the high labor costs in Switzerland and difficulties to obtain work permits for new (non-EU) hires. Engineers cost 20-30% more in Zurich than in London and, due to this and the immigration issues, Google is expanding its London center:

https://translate.google.de/translat...322&edit-text=
They could have googled that already years ago.
Reply With Quote
The following 13 users would like to thank Captain Greybeard for this useful post:
  #10  
Old 20.12.2015, 12:36
parnell's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Geroldswil
Posts: 385
Groaned at 88 Times in 53 Posts
Thanked 947 Times in 445 Posts
parnell has a reputation beyond reputeparnell has a reputation beyond reputeparnell has a reputation beyond reputeparnell has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Salaries sinking?

Quote:
View Post
Which in turn is a worry for the housing market because if wages fall house prices must logically follow suit.
It's usually much much worse as the housing market typically overshoots... we were looking at buying a pad in ZH recently where initial price was 1.6m - came down to 1.45m but because of advice we've since received it seems likely it's worth 1.3m max
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 20.12.2015, 12:45
Halfasleep's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Zug
Posts: 209
Groaned at 3 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 90 Times in 48 Posts
Halfasleep has made some interesting contributions
Re: Salaries sinking?

agree, the new salaries here have taken a massive hit (makes the move to working in London more attractive now). Salaries have been offered here that are less then what I received +6 years ago with zero experience back then. Strong franc, EU migration main cause. Companies simply hire the cheapest and not necessary the most skilled...
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Halfasleep for this useful post:
  #12  
Old 20.12.2015, 12:50
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Zurich
Posts: 9,191
Groaned at 529 Times in 401 Posts
Thanked 11,948 Times in 4,678 Posts
Richdog has a reputation beyond reputeRichdog has a reputation beyond reputeRichdog has a reputation beyond reputeRichdog has a reputation beyond reputeRichdog has a reputation beyond reputeRichdog has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Salaries sinking?

Quote:
View Post
Google Switzerland is complaining about the high labor costs in Switzerland and difficulties to obtain work permits for new (non-EU) hires. Engineers cost 20-30% more in Zurich than in London and, due to this and the immigration issues, Google is expanding its London center:

https://translate.google.de/translat...322&edit-text=
Good job they don't pay taxes then, eh?
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank Richdog for this useful post:
  #13  
Old 20.12.2015, 13:02
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Aargau
Posts: 1,560
Groaned at 12 Times in 11 Posts
Thanked 1,810 Times in 881 Posts
Mullhollander has a reputation beyond reputeMullhollander has a reputation beyond reputeMullhollander has a reputation beyond reputeMullhollander has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Salaries sinking?

In the period approx. 1998 to 2001 the labor market for certain kinds of employees was very tight in Switzerland. My former employer increased its offers by around 20% to attract employees from other companies to fill vacancies (caused by our employees leaving for a 20% boost at another company).

As a result of the Swiss recession that started mid-year 2001 new hires who were unemployed could be brought in to these same jobs at the pre-1998 levels and the employees hired from 1998 to 2001 were considered "overpaid" in the company. Some underperforming "overpaid" employees were exited from the company.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 20.12.2015, 13:05
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: ZH
Posts: 4,445
Groaned at 55 Times in 45 Posts
Thanked 2,164 Times in 1,311 Posts
SOBEIT has a reputation beyond reputeSOBEIT has a reputation beyond reputeSOBEIT has a reputation beyond reputeSOBEIT has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Salaries sinking?

Quote:
View Post
agree, the new salaries here have taken a massive hit (makes the move to working in London more attractive now). Salaries have been offered here that are less then what I received +6 years ago with zero experience back then. Strong franc, EU migration main cause. Companies simply hire the cheapest and not necessary the most skilled...
Not necessarily, I made the hop from CW to here for that reason alone, plus the work, life balance is far more attractive especially when you move into your forties..
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 20.12.2015, 13:14
NotAllThere's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Baselland
Posts: 8,988
Groaned at 140 Times in 122 Posts
Thanked 12,275 Times in 5,017 Posts
NotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Salaries sinking?

Quote:
View Post
Which in turn is a worry for the housing market because if wages fall house prices must logically follow suit.
What housing market? As long as I've been here, buying a house as an investment has been usually thought of as a bad idea.
Reply With Quote
The following 6 users would like to thank NotAllThere for this useful post:
  #16  
Old 20.12.2015, 13:15
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: ZH
Posts: 4,445
Groaned at 55 Times in 45 Posts
Thanked 2,164 Times in 1,311 Posts
SOBEIT has a reputation beyond reputeSOBEIT has a reputation beyond reputeSOBEIT has a reputation beyond reputeSOBEIT has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Salaries sinking?

Quote:
View Post
What housing market? As long as I've been here, buying a house as an investment has been usually thought of as a bad idea.
Has it...?
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 20.12.2015, 13:17
speakeron's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Basel
Posts: 728
Groaned at 24 Times in 17 Posts
Thanked 645 Times in 319 Posts
speakeron has a reputation beyond reputespeakeron has a reputation beyond reputespeakeron has a reputation beyond reputespeakeron has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Salaries sinking?

The downward pressure on salaries is a direct consequence of the SNB dropping the currency peg. Currency rises about 20%; salaries drop about 20%. It's almost beautiful in the same brutal way that a B-52 is.

On the bright side, your Swiss assets are up about 20%. So it's looking ok so far...
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank speakeron for this useful post:
  #18  
Old 20.12.2015, 13:18
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 2,462
Groaned at 50 Times in 31 Posts
Thanked 2,232 Times in 1,226 Posts
rainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Salaries sinking?

It probably depends on what your job actually is.

At least where I work, we simply cannot afford to hire the cheapest. We also can't just hire someone from Spain or Greece - they have to understand our customers' Swiss-German dialect.

But I'm pretty sure that if I'd change jobs, I'd have to start with less salary than what I have now.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank rainer_d for this useful post:
  #19  
Old 20.12.2015, 13:22
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 2,462
Groaned at 50 Times in 31 Posts
Thanked 2,232 Times in 1,226 Posts
rainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Salaries sinking?

Quote:
View Post
Has it...?

It was probably OK-ish until the 90s, while gains in land-prices offset the deprecation of the building.
Nowadays, people liquidating 2nd and 3rd pillars to buy their "dream-house" with almost no land - I'm quite sure they could be in for a brutal awakening once they reach retirement age.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank rainer_d for this useful post:
  #20  
Old 20.12.2015, 13:23
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Zurich
Posts: 9,191
Groaned at 529 Times in 401 Posts
Thanked 11,948 Times in 4,678 Posts
Richdog has a reputation beyond reputeRichdog has a reputation beyond reputeRichdog has a reputation beyond reputeRichdog has a reputation beyond reputeRichdog has a reputation beyond reputeRichdog has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Salaries sinking?

Quote:
View Post
It probably depends on what your job actually is.

At least where I work, we simply cannot afford to hire the cheapest. We also can't just hire someone from Spain or Greece - they have to understand our customers' Swiss-German dialect.

But I'm pretty sure that if I'd change jobs, I'd have to start with less salary than what I have now.
I think it also depends on the area you work in... some stay centralized in Switzerland and are always in demand. I got a good pay rise with my last job change late this year and I can't see my salary going down even if I change companies in a couple of years (though of course nothing is guaranteed).
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Richdog for this useful post:
Reply

Tags
salary




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Real Estate prices sinking Wollishofener Swiss politics/news 18 04.09.2012 00:26
Friday 3.Dec.2010: Gordon Bell & The Sinking Ships: Live in Cafe Hammer heebeegeebee Concerts 1 25.02.2011 09:24
Gordon Bell & The Sinking Ships @ Café Hammer, Basel heebeegeebee Commercial events 0 25.10.2010 05:32
Gordon Bell & The Sinking Ships heebeegeebee Social events 0 09.12.2009 00:25
The sinking of an Aston Martin: Bond filing accident cheros General off-topic 0 21.04.2008 02:29


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 21:28.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0