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  #1  
Old 03.07.2008, 12:58
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Math private lessons, Zurich - is it legal?

I am going to start my PhD studies at the ETH on the 1st of September. However, I am coming to Zuirch in the middle of July with a tourist visa. In Septmeber I should own a residence permit/visa/B-permit - to be honest I do not know exactly what's the difference, ETh takes care of it.

I have seen that private lessons in German in Zurich cost roughly 80 CHF per an academic hour - that is a lot compared with my home country. I am wondering whether math private lessons cost the same?

My second question is if it is legal at all. In my home country, officially it is not legal, but no one cares, neither the tutor and nor the police\governmanet (unelss the tutor exaggerates and provides these lessons as his main job and gets a nice salary of it). What is the situation in Switzerland? What might be the consequences of it - in both cases, i.e., what would happen if I am "caught" giving math tutors as a tourist? and what would happen in the same situation if I am having a B-permit?
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Old 03.07.2008, 13:06
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Re: Math private lessons, Zurich - is it legal?

I think it is time for someone else to post a "What do you want us to say ?" response here.

dave
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Old 03.07.2008, 13:14
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Re: Math private lessons, Zurich - is it legal?

If you have a B-Student permit thing then I think you can work up to a certain number of hours per week or month. But I'm not sure so don't take what I say as right.

Perhaps think about phrasing your question a little clearer in future...
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Old 03.07.2008, 13:34
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Re: Math private lessons, Zurich - is it legal?

Thanks, let me straighten outthis my question. I will have a B-permit. Will I be allowed to give 2-3 private lessons a week without informing the officilas about it? Assuming that I must inform the officials, what might be the consequences if I choose not to do it?
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Old 03.07.2008, 13:51
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Re: Math private lessons, Zurich - is it legal?

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Thanks, let me straighten outthis my question. I will have a B-permit. Will I be allowed to give 2-3 private lessons a week without informing the officilas about it?
As a matter of principle all income must be declared to the authorities. Working without a permit is forbidden.

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Assuming that I must inform the officials, what might be the consequences if I choose not to do it?
Retroactive taxation plus fine in case you have a permit. In case you don't it's a little bit more difficult to say.

Also do not get ahead of yourself - tutoring by university students isn't going to be paid more than 30 CHF an hour.
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Old 03.07.2008, 14:03
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Re: Math private lessons, Zurich - is it legal?

from what i can gather, you are looking to earn income by giving math lessons so that you can pay for german lessons while undertaking a PhD at ETH.

what may be of interest to you is that german lessons are likely to be included as part of your studies. all the peeps i know who are doing their PhD's at ETH and do not already speak german undertake at least two semesters (maybe more??) of german classes. (from what i have hear, costs for these are inlcuded in your annual tuition fees; which, last time i looked, is not much by international standards)

save your tutoring money for beer :-) (while out drinking you will most likely learn enough german to get into or out of trouble, depending on your goals, of course)
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Last edited by NicM; 03.07.2008 at 14:05. Reason: added some extra info
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Old 03.07.2008, 14:05
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Re: Math private lessons, Zurich - is it legal?

30 CHF per hour? That is strange. I happend to find out that German tutorials cost 80 CHF per an academic hour.
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Old 03.07.2008, 14:14
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Re: Math private lessons, Zurich - is it legal?

in a country of german speakers, the only peeps needing german lessons... are well, us. mostly high-paid immigrant workers. and there are enough of us for the prices to be that high... mind you i've heard of cleaning ladies asking for decent money here.... grrrrr

re: price of maths lessons: the number of kids after maths lessons are limited (i did this for years back home). Here however, the school system is quite good and uni filtering processes are excellent from what i hear. fewer people of lessers abilities are making it through to uni (or even final year of high school). hence less call for tutors.


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30 CHF per hour? That is strange. I happend to find out that German tutorials cost 80 CHF per an academic hour.
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Old 03.07.2008, 14:18
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Re: Math private lessons, Zurich - is it legal?

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30 CHF per hour? That is strange. I happend to find out that German tutorials cost 80 CHF per an academic hour.

I highly doubt we're talking about German tutorials given by a student here, are we?
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Old 03.07.2008, 14:25
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Re: Math private lessons, Zurich - is it legal?

I liked your idea with the beer, seems like it worked in your case
I will have German courses at the ETH, they are free of charge. But the problem is that I will have to teach math in German starting from September 2009, thus it is very recommended for me to learn German as intensively as possible. I am currenlty taking German tutorials in my home country. One private lesosn costs me 30 CHF per 60 minutes, such a price probably can not be reached in Zurich.


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in a country of german speakers, the only peeps needing german lessons... are well, us. mostly high-paid immigrant workers. and there are enough of us for the prices to be that high... mind you i've heard of cleaning ladies asking for decent money here.... grrrrr

re: price of maths lessons: the number of kids after maths lessons are limited (i did this for years back home). Here however, the school system is quite good and uni filtering processes are excellent from what i hear. fewer people of lessers abilities are making it through to uni (or even final year of high school). hence less call for tutors.
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Old 03.07.2008, 14:34
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Re: Math private lessons, Zurich - is it legal?

We are not talking about studnets providing German tutorials, but about experienced teachers with good skills and adequate academic background. I would attribute to myself a very resembles characterization. Should one care whether his tutor is a PhD student or not? I don not think so.

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I highly doubt we're talking about German tutorials given by a student here, are we?
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Old 03.07.2008, 14:37
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Re: Math private lessons, Zurich - is it legal?

fair enough.... but i am guessing that any private german lessons you get are not going to help all that much with regards to math. it's more likely you'll pick this up around other german speaking scientists...... ( there a few good websites around regarding math /engineeiring /physics etc. and german... check these out, get some practise in, try to hold a conversation with your colleagues in 6 months, if you can, all good, if not, back to the pub, you obviously weren't drinking enough beer)

good luck with it.


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I liked your idea with the beer, seems like it worked in your case
I will have German courses at the ETH, they are free of charge. But the problem is that I will have to teach math in German starting from September 2009, thus it is very recommended for me to learn German as intensively as possible. I am currenlty taking German tutorials in my home country. One private lesosn costs me 30 CHF per 60 minutes, such a price probably can not be reached in Zurich.
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Old 03.07.2008, 14:38
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Re: Math private lessons, Zurich - is it legal?

I have read the whole thread, and I still don't understand what you are doing: do you want to receive German lessons and pay for it by teaching Maths but without a permit ?

If so why are we now discussing German Phd student teachers ?

dave



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We are not talking about studnets providing German tutorials, but about experienced teachers with good skills and adequate academic background. I would attribute to myself a very resembles characterization. Should one care whether his tutor is a PhD student or not? I don not think so.
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Old 03.07.2008, 14:41
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Re: Math private lessons, Zurich - is it legal?

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We are not talking about studnets providing German tutorials, but about experienced teachers with good skills and adequate academic background. I would attribute to myself a very resembles characterization. Should one care whether his tutor is a PhD student or not? I don not think so.
Ok. Let's get back to basics here. You will be giving a few tutoring lessons here and there to either high school students or first year university students in need of momentary support.

Do you think that they'll pay you 80 CHF an hour when the going rate is 30? I think not. I doubt a PhD background will bring any added value when trying to explain basic equations to a 16 year old, or second derivatives to a first year university student.
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Old 03.07.2008, 14:47
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Re: Math private lessons, Zurich - is it legal?

I can confirm that math tutorials, offered by PhD students, do not pay that much. If they did, half my colleagues here would be out doing that instead of working full-time on our dissertations.

Besides the free German courses at ETH, the Graduate School of Mathematics also runs heavily subsidized courses of its own. You do pay for those, but it's only 300/semester (7.50/academic hour). Classes are fairly small, usually 3-8 people, and they also do two intensive courses during the semester breaks. The idea is that you'll go from zero knowledge to A2/B1 (which is enough to lead an exercise session, if you prepare properly) in one calendar year.

Also, I know they say you should be prepared to teach in German "from September 2009", but in reality you won't be forced to do it that soon. If your German is really not up to it by that time, they will find some other way to put you to work. Some exercise sessions are led through English - or you may be given grading, etc. to do instead. So work hard on it but don't kill yourself.
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Old 03.07.2008, 14:48
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Re: Math private lessons, Zurich - is it legal?

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I have read the whole thread, and I still don't understand what you are doing: do you want to receive German lessons and pay for it by teaching Maths but without a permit ?

If so why are we now discussing German Phd student teachers ?

dave
I don't remember me discussing it My original question was more or less about the opportunity to supply math lessons in Zurich (even though illegally)? One of the mates here suggested (btw, a rather good guess) that I am willing to do it for being able to pay for the German lessons which I would like to receive. I think that we should all now have some fine pint of beer
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Old 03.07.2008, 14:52
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Re: Math private lessons, Zurich - is it legal?

What if I know six languages ? Do they count as extra ?

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Do you think that they'll pay you 80 CHF an hour when the going rate is 30? I think not. I doubt a PhD background will bring any added value when trying to explain basic equations to a 16 year old, or second derivatives to a first year university student.
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Old 03.07.2008, 14:55
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Re: Math private lessons, Zurich - is it legal?

I am going to attend the courses you linked here, good to know that A2/B1 is enough for being able to conduct the practice lessons Good to know that is worth to concentrate on reserach instead of giving math tutors

I am also pleased to find out that there are intensive courses in the semester breaks (no holidays in other words!




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I can confirm that math tutorials, offered by PhD students, do not pay that much. If they did, half my colleagues here would be out doing that instead of working full-time on our dissertations.

Besides the free German courses at ETH, the Graduate School of Mathematics also runs heavily subsidized courses of its own. You do pay for those, but it's only 300/semester (7.50/academic hour). Classes are fairly small, usually 3-8 people, and they also do two intensive courses during the semester breaks. The idea is that you'll go from zero knowledge to A2/B1 (which is enough to lead an exercise session, if you prepare properly) in one calendar year.

Also, I know they say you should be prepared to teach in German "from September 2009", but in reality you won't be forced to do it that soon. If your German is really not up to it by that time, they will find some other way to put you to work. Some exercise sessions are led through English - or you may be given grading, etc. to do instead. So work hard on it but don't kill yourself.
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Old 03.07.2008, 14:57
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Re: Math private lessons, Zurich - is it legal?

thanks, I always very appreciate beer suggestions =)

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fair enough.... but i am guessing that any private german lessons you get are not going to help all that much with regards to math. it's more likely you'll pick this up around other german speaking scientists...... ( there a few good websites around regarding math /engineeiring /physics etc. and german... check these out, get some practise in, try to hold a conversation with your colleagues in 6 months, if you can, all good, if not, back to the pub, you obviously weren't drinking enough beer)

good luck with it.
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Old 03.07.2008, 15:00
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Re: Math private lessons, Zurich - is it legal?

Apparently none is going to pay me more than 30 CHF. I was just wondering why are the rates so low compared with German tutorials, I have received a simple explanation to this phenomena.


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Ok. Let's get back to basics here. You will be giving a few tutoring lessons here and there to either high school students or first year university students in need of momentary support.

Do you think that they'll pay you 80 CHF an hour when the going rate is 30? I think not. I doubt a PhD background will bring any added value when trying to explain basic equations to a 16 year old, or second derivatives to a first year university student.
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