Hi,

For the Program and Project Managers out there:

How recognizable is the PMP certification in Switzerland as compared to Prince II or IPMA? Will I encounter difficulties with Swiss employers if I don't have a more european based cert? (I have 10 years of experience to back it up)

Thanks.

Simply answered no. PMP is recognized although experience with another methodology will be very beneficial. Look for international companies and you will not have a problem. The issue with PMP is that it is a product rather than a process whereas PRINCE2 and IPMA are process based. Also PMBok is rather like a hollow framework missing in detail. But these are beer discussions as to the merits of methodologies - fact is PMP is okay here and preferred in some companies.

FYi- Zurich Financial Services utalises PMP for its programme managers - due to its framework approach and global reach..... Good luck.

Thanks for the input. I agree there are differences between the certs, but with the strength of the pound against the dollar, I'd only pursue Prince II if it was really necessary. IPMA training seems very hard to come by in the US, but long term, I think that's a direction I will pursue. I expect it will be easier to find courses and complete once I'm back in Europe.

If anyone else knows of other firms that look use/require a PMP, I would appreciate the info. Thanks!

I think the PMP certification is very useful if you are doing project management and looking for the formal methodology and wanting to structure the overall approach.

As far as acceptance is concerned any body looking for certified project manager will gladly accept PMP (even in Europe). Very rarely you might see only Pince II or IPMA certification only. In other part of the world probably PMP is more acceptible.

Also the other important point is that you should actively participate in the local chapters or online community (like Gantthead www.gantthead.com/). If you are looking for PMP jobs then visit the Job section in the PMI Switzerland chapter.

I think this is more a German speaking country opinion. PRINCE 2 is often quoted as the only acceptable certification - go check out jobserve if you think this is not the case - although I think structured approach is more important. The point with PRINCE2 is that is foresees a specific setup and therefore if that is what the company has you need to understand the roles that are played and the approach that will be taking, something quite different to other methodologies as PRINCE2 concentrates on delivering the goods and not on setting up a framework a la PMBoK. IPMA seems though, at least in German speaking countries, to be really on a role and more and more companies are deploying this as their structured Project Methodology.

I sit on the PMI Switzerland Chapter Board of Directors, www.pmi-switzerland.ch

In the Financial/Insurance sector, most HR dept now have strict requirements for PMP/IPMA certification when hiring Project Managers (IT or otherwise).

For example Credit Suisse has started an internal program of PMP certification (250 PMP, 450 CAPM). UBS proposed internally IPMA and PMP certification to their staff. Zurich Financial Services also use the PMI Framework. Other industry - Alstom for example has over 100PMPs and apply the PMBoK in their engineering projects - T-System only use PMP certified staff for their PMOs and the list goes on...

Service companies tend to be a bit more flexible but when they "resell" you, a PM certification increases the daily rate by over 20%. IBM as the world's largest employer of Project Managers see PMP/IPMA as their 1st step in PM education.

An advice I can give to project managers is that certification is only a small (but required) part of your professional development.

Other PM related communities

SPM http://www.spm.ch/default.aspx
SMP http://www.project-management.ch/
IPMA http://www.ipma.ch/Pages/IPMA.aspx

If you are after your first professional qualification then go for the PMP as the exam is only a 200 question multi-choice and it's a relatively easy qualification to attain at 70%ish and the qualification is valid for 3 years.

If you already have the PMP then go for the Prince2 as it's a natural progression, it's in 2 stages a 100 question multi-choice (60% pass?) and a 3 hour, 3 question written exam based on case studies, of the sort you get in a degree paper. This really cuts the wheat from the chaff and is valid for 5 years.

Neither PM methodology is in competition with one another as they are in fact complimentary. The holy grail possibly being running PMP processes within the larger Prince2 framework.

That's my pennies worth, anyhow.

Are there any IPMA qualified people out there who would be be willing to give a few hints and tips?

Cheers

Hello fellow saints fan,

Sorry but I have to correct you on statement regarding the PMP and Prince 2.

Although they might be complimentary on an IT project, Prince2 is a methodology or a suit of processes for managing a (IT) project; whereas the PMP is the certification of your knowledge of the PMBoK. The PMBoK is a framework, applying your experience and knowledge of project management, its knowledge areas and processes to any type of project (in short).

To pass, the PMP you are required to have a certain amount of verifiable professional experience (2500hours if you hold a University Degree, 7500hours otherwise), 35 hours of Project Management Education and require to sign and agree upon a code of conduct and ethic. The examination is much more complicated than Prince2 (I've done both and you need 61% for the PMP) and to keep your certification you are required to earn 60 Professional Development Units (Credits) every 3 years (more infor on the www.pmi.org website or come to one of our events in Switzerland www.pmi-switzerland.ch)...

The PMP certification questions push you towards using your knowledge and experience and to not only regurgitate ideas in a book. Being certified, you are also expected to contribute to the Project Management Profession. It is a real commitment. The IPMA also has this idea and is supported by the SMP and SPM in Switzerland.

The problem with IPMA certified folks in Switzerland is that it is offered in German as such, I don't think you will get too many in this English speaking forum.

Afternoon all.....

For what it's worth, I've recently (Oct 07) completed the Prince2 Practitioner course and exam, and it's been changed to a 3 hour multiple choice exam. Not sure how that compares with the other methodologies/certifications quoted (being a humble QA person rather than a career PM), but it seems to be a bit devalued compared to the old Prince2 exam format. It certainly didn't prove that I could manage projects, as I could pretty much memorise and regurgitate parrot-fashion what was in the book - and still pass the exam.

I still quite like Prince2, though; it's just the certification process that I have problems with........

Sorry,

Can't let all that disinformation slip into the websphere, you speak with the vested conviction of a door-to-door salesman. Firstly, the 'professional experience' point is mute. What constitutes as experience is open to so much abuse by decreeing this as 'professional experience' is borderline charlatan.

Also, P2 was invented by the OGC for IT Projects but it is applied to all and every project, not IT projects alone (I've personally used it in the build of military aircraft (US), banking systems and business processes (UK, US & CH), realty construction (UK) and throughout leading Universitys (US & UK) and can be used seamlessly with PMBoK and Scrum (again, not IT specific) as required.

The idea of what exam is harder is subjective (as is my view), and as another post has pointed out the exams have recently changed. As P2 is now multi choice, you might find it more or as difficult as PMP. If they changed PMP next week to analytical case based reasoning then I might have found that slightly more difficult than the multi-choice walkover that I was offered. It's horses for courses.

As for the professional code of conduct and ethics, this is a strong point for the PMI and although most senior professionals are covered by the chartered or professional regulatory bodies of the industry they are working in (FSA, SEC, ACCA, CIMA, CEng, BCS etc) a new person just entering Project Management will find this helpful and was one of the points why I initially gained my PMP qualification, and a reinforcement that it's a great starting qual for people new to the profession.

When it comes to re-newing PM qualifications I renew in order of economic value and the P2 is in far more demand and returns a higher day-rate than a PMI or ScrumMaster when the quals are considered alone. The qualifications are worth far more when used together which is the point I thought you might have deduced from my first post, as you're a P2 practitioner and PMP.

I will always re-new my PMP qualification but I accept that it's no 'golden bullet', that it has inherent weaknesses and failiures and is dramatically improved when used in conjunction with other frameworks and the same goes for P2 and Scrum, I certainly wouldn't sell it above all others like a cheap suit or be so blinded my the salesmans spiel not to tell the Bull from the shyte.

You decide......

Perm
http://www.itjobswatch.co.uk/default...&id=0&lid=2618

Contract
http://www.itjobswatch.co.uk/contrac...&id=0&lid=2618

Although they might be complimentary on an IT project, Prince2 is a methodology or a suit of processes for managing a (IT) project; whereas the PMP is the certification of your knowledge of the PMBoK. The PMBoK is a framework, applying your experience and knowledge of project management, its knowledge areas and processes to any type of project (in short).

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Would it be reasonable to say that about 60% of the PM related positions are in the IT area ? I do not see too many non IT related PM positions, be it PMP or Prince.

If you want a true international standard then PMP will be recognised around the world. The IPMA qualifications are strong is Switzerland, and main land Europe and UK but not the rest of the world. PRINCE 2 is growing fast but is still small compated the the 90,000 PMPs. For more details on Prince2, APM and PMI visit my web site

Dear all

Can you please tell how much money it will cost if one wants to clear both PMP and Prince II, including exam fees as well as training?
I believe PMP costs around 700 US dollars which would be around the same in CHF, only for the exam. Any idea about Prince II?

Best Regards & Thanks in advance!

Dear All...thanks for sharing much useful information....this gives good insight to various aspects of these project managent certifications.

Does anyone know if there is any contact training center for PMP or PRINCE2 in basel or nearby (though i understand that I might have to take up the exam in Genvea or Zurich for PMP)
How was the experience in training? Do you recomment any institute or an individual ?

I am failrly new to project management and I work for a service company in the area of IT services and have a oppertunity to work on a huge datacenter migrations project for about 2 years. I think this would be an advantage if I take up the certification in time. I have lead or been part of small projects based on ICE IQP methodlogies in the past though.

Based on factors like geo ( i will be working in EU or the US ), IT Service Industry, my experience 7 years approx, cost ( not sponsered) and availablity of contact training centers in basel or nearby, what would you recommend, PMP or Prince2 ?

My goal is complete a PM certification by end of this year.

Many thanks for any help on the topic.

Regards
roamster

You've revived an old thread it seems . I'm wondering if some of the opinions expressed here have changed since the thread was created.

I can't help you much with regards to finding study groups or the like, but will look at responses with interest. I find that PMP demonstrates so little about PM skills that I will gladly drop it for a more serious approach (and, yes, the bit about hours of experience is very amateur-ish, to say the least).

I don't think that you really need any study group or training center for PMP. If you have a bit of PM experience, look on-line at sample test questions and 10/20 pages study sheets and you will be fine. It should be easy and fairly cheap to have it completed by the end of the year (provided that you can get your application completed early enough - don't underestimate the time it takes!).

Knowing that you'll likely be working in the US, PMP seems the reasonable option, despite all doubts I might have towards the seriousness of the certification.

Any other thoughts?

Apart from the facts for eligibility (course duration, work experience etc.) as someone who already posted before PMP is more factual whereas IPMA is more process oriented. I'm not sure that any multiple choice practice exams are available for IPMA, and you have in addition to undergo a written, oral and project work with defense of your project work to pass the examination. All said both have their merits and demerits. Myself, being IPMA have the personal opinion that IPMA has an overall (personal) approach, as opposed to PMP which is just multiple choice (i.e. get your facts right). No idea about Prince II. To say more would get too philosophical.