Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Employment
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #61  
Old 12.12.2008, 17:25
Velofellow's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Rüti-ZH
Posts: 537
Groaned at 9 Times in 6 Posts
Thanked 576 Times in 254 Posts
Velofellow has a reputation beyond reputeVelofellow has a reputation beyond reputeVelofellow has a reputation beyond reputeVelofellow has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Mobbing in Switzerland

On the English language front, "mobbing" is a verb used to describe the behaviour of members of the crow family when they encounter a bird of prey. With incredible bravery they unite and drive it off. It is often impressive to watch, as the bird of prey loses feathers, and the crows kick up a hell of a racket. I once saw the raptor being chased suddenly turn and knock one of its tormentors dead out of the sky with an audible crunch.

I too experienced Swiss-style mobbing from the company sociopath. The usual stuff, not being given all the information to allow me to complete a job successfully, being dressed down in front of the whole office for no reason at all, having this guys mistakes assigned to me, basically being treated as his b*tch.
I started recording things on a little memo recorder, and printing out e-mails etc., until I had amassed considerable evidence of his miserable treatment of me in a folder. I then requested a meeting including him and all the management. He challenged me to prove my accusations, then went a funny grey colour when I pulled out my folder and my little voice recorder. Things went downhill for him from there, unbeknownst to me, this guy had already been pulled up a couple of years before for mobbing a female employee, who had resigned.
The meeting finished with him getting a resounding b*llocking from each of the management team.
You have grow yourself a pair and stand up to bullies, it's the only thing they understand, and if you think you are being bullied, you are.

Cheers

Jim
__________________
It is the greatest and most successful pseudoscientific fraud I have seen in my long life as a physicist. Dr H. Lewis
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank Velofellow for this useful post:
  #62  
Old 12.12.2008, 17:41
5AVeci
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Mobbing in Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
I started recording things on a little memo recorder, and printing out e-mails etc., until I had amassed considerable evidence of his miserable treatment of me in a folder.
Unfortunately these days tiny memo recorder and a good mic are a must. It's good to be a bit paranoic and cover your back (print emails, etc).
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old 12.12.2008, 17:43
HollidayG's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Kanton Zürich
Posts: 3,021
Groaned at 52 Times in 36 Posts
Thanked 1,172 Times in 732 Posts
HollidayG has an excellent reputationHollidayG has an excellent reputationHollidayG has an excellent reputationHollidayG has an excellent reputation
Re: Mobbing in Switzerland

An English co-worker of mine was recently mobbed out of my company,
and the behavior of those involved was truly despicable!!

They made up lies, gave him no work to do, blamed him for sh*t that
was not his fault. Meanwhile he is without a job and has to support
his family!

I have been fortunate until now.
Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old 26.09.2010, 01:23
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Basel
Posts: 2
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
M.I.Khan has no particular reputation at present
Re: Mobbing in Switzerland

Hi, I have been under a lot of stress for the last two months, and I found this thread quite informative. (you can judge the level of stress by the fact that I am online at 4:00 in the morning despite a long day)

The problem I am facing is, there is a co worker who is constantly pointing me out and making fun of me in a mean way highlighting my religion and nationality. (I am a Pakistani and a Muslim) which i guess gives everybody a reason to hate me

I usually shrug off his behaviour, but he is persistant and sometimes his comments are humiliating.

Would appreciate some advice considering the fact that I have been working in this company for the last two months only.
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old 26.09.2010, 08:03
NotAllThere's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Baselland
Posts: 8,967
Groaned at 140 Times in 122 Posts
Thanked 12,243 Times in 5,007 Posts
NotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Mobbing in Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
.... (I am a Pakistani and a Muslim) which i guess gives everybody a reason to hate me ...
That's not a good attitude to have. If everybody hates you, then you won't get any help here, so what would be the point of posting? While I sympathise with your plight, one of the more negative portrayal of Muslims in the media is the victim mentality.

With regards to your problem at work, tell your colleague, in front of witnessess, that you find his behaviour to be offensive, and ask him to stop. Do NOT get into a discussion or argument about it. Do not justify what you've said. Make a log of everything your colleague does and says against you, for a period of time. Note who was present at the time. Make recordings, if you want. When you've got enough to show this is not one-off behaviour, go to your manager, and explain that there is an issue. Some will say that it's just your word against his. The fact is, if you have a log of events, and he doesn't, that is evidence in your favour.

Your health is more important than your job in Switzerland. You may lose your job if you make a complaint. If you don't make a complaint, and the stress gets to you, you'll be unable to work, perhaps suffer mental illness or breakdown, and you'll lose your job.
__________________
In accordance with Political Correctness guidelines, I've checked my privileges and come to the conclusion that I'm awesome.
Reply With Quote
The following 9 users would like to thank NotAllThere for this useful post:
  #66  
Old 26.09.2010, 08:38
CheesyKiwi's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Basel, Bruderholz
Posts: 509
Groaned at 4 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 363 Times in 160 Posts
CheesyKiwi has a reputation beyond reputeCheesyKiwi has a reputation beyond reputeCheesyKiwi has a reputation beyond reputeCheesyKiwi has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Mobbing in Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
If you don't make a complaint, and the stress gets to you, you'll be unable to work, perhaps suffer mental illness or breakdown, and you'll lose your job.
And think of the next person singled out for *whatever* reasons within the company.

CK
Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old 26.09.2010, 08:41
martin34's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Niederglatt
Posts: 715
Groaned at 39 Times in 30 Posts
Thanked 304 Times in 185 Posts
martin34 has earned the respect of manymartin34 has earned the respect of manymartin34 has earned the respect of many
Re: Mobbing in Switzerland

I agree with what NotAllThere wrote:

Although I know this is easier said than done don't behave like a victim or get angry but try to be assertive.

When he does it (everytime he does it) tell him in a clear loud voice that it is unprofessional and that he should stop.
IMO If he knows he is going to get a loud negative reaction from you every time he won't be as keen to do it.
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old 26.09.2010, 10:52
Peg A's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 4,435
Groaned at 163 Times in 128 Posts
Thanked 5,428 Times in 2,510 Posts
Peg A has a reputation beyond reputePeg A has a reputation beyond reputePeg A has a reputation beyond reputePeg A has a reputation beyond reputePeg A has a reputation beyond reputePeg A has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Mobbing in Switzerland

First, I'll reiterate what NotAllThere and Martin34 have said... do what you need to do to assert yourself while avoiding going a "passive aggressive" victim route. Ask him to stop, in front of others. Note who was there, the date and the time. Do this EVERY time he does that.

Also, as it does effect how you feel, do whatever it takes through your insurance / medical provider to get in to see a counselor. The counselor can help provide you with tools that you will need to help yourself through this.

I know most folks would probably think to themselves "I'm a strong person, I can get through this" but really, it winds up messing things up for you the longer it carries on, particularly if you don't have support. I've been there and deeply regret not asking for help outside of work.
__________________
The Joys of Opticianry
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Peg A for this useful post:
  #69  
Old 26.09.2010, 11:56
bronxboy's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Zurich
Posts: 35
Groaned at 4 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 14 Times in 7 Posts
bronxboy has earned some respectbronxboy has earned some respect
Re: Mobbing in CH

Quote:
View Post
I think this is an exclusively Swiss term? My intermediate German instructor (Swiss from Basel) and I had a heated discussion about its meaning in class last autumn, as she insisted it only applied to bullying in schools. Having seen "Mobbing" used in the press and on TV applied almost exclusively to the workplace I was having problems understanding her. That being the case, I am not sure if the Germans use "Mobbing" in terms of abuse at the workplace in the same way that the Swiss German do. It is most definitely not an English word, at least not in the same manner as they use it.

"It is most definitely not an English word, at least not in the same manner as they use it."

what!?

I understood what it meant the first time I heard it used in CH. I don't need a dictionary for this. Simply put. A mob is a group of people disorderly or otherwise.

When you are being mobbed that means a group is attacking you verbally or otherwise. "Mobbing" means the same exact thing. This word was most commonly used in Europe in the 17th and 18 centuries when mobs of people would gather to punish or execute somebody and then again in the 40's when gangsters were referred to as the mob. Seriously guys; this should not be complicated to understand be you an American or European. It's in both dictionaries.
Reply With Quote
  #70  
Old 26.09.2010, 13:38
NotAllThere's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Baselland
Posts: 8,967
Groaned at 140 Times in 122 Posts
Thanked 12,243 Times in 5,007 Posts
NotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Mobbing in Switzerland

If you think "mobbing" is the same as the term in English, then you've misunderstood what the word means in this country.

Wrt seeing a health professional. While I was having such a difficulty at work, I consulted a doctor, and was signed off work for three weeks. This was seen as additional evidence of the toxic nature of the workplace environment engendered by the management.
Reply With Quote
  #71  
Old 26.09.2010, 18:24
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Basel
Posts: 2
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
M.I.Khan has no particular reputation at present
Re: Mobbing in Switzerland

Yes my attitude is not correct, I understand. I was a bit distressed yesterday and things just came out. In much better shape today and yes I have now also satrted being assertive without being confronting so I know things will get better from now onwards.

But anyways, I have been working here for quite a while and nothing like this happened before... you learn by experience so I have started learning.

Thanks for the support.
Reply With Quote
  #72  
Old 24.02.2011, 14:40
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Luzern
Posts: 33
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 33 Times in 14 Posts
Flyingfox has earned the respect of manyFlyingfox has earned the respect of manyFlyingfox has earned the respect of many
Re: Mobbing in Switzerland

Thanks to everyone for their helpful posts. They're really helpful.

I am experiencing something similar at work right now. It's been going on for 8 months. It started with my direct superior and his boss calling me to a meeting to tell me I'm too slow, not working enough. I took it objectively and tried my best to work better and faster, but it didn't help. So I asked for some clearer indication of what they need/want, but got no answer - verbal or written. Just More, faster, better. 3 months later I get told I'm on a performance improvement plan and if I don't do better my job is gone.
I deliver my projects on time and the project teams are really happy with me and my work. But my bosses still insist I'm not good enough and gave me zero percent for my two main projects in our appraisals, even though I delivered

Weird.

Anyways, thanks for letting me vent

Cheers
FF
Reply With Quote
  #73  
Old 24.02.2011, 14:56
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: ZG
Posts: 386
Groaned at 26 Times in 12 Posts
Thanked 73 Times in 59 Posts
electric_grey has earned some respectelectric_grey has earned some respect
Re: Mobbing in Switzerland

People can be so weird, like the saying goes, there's nought so queer as folk.
Reply With Quote
  #74  
Old 24.02.2011, 15:03
ozibird's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Germany
Posts: 151
Groaned at 2 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 33 Times in 23 Posts
ozibird has made some interesting contributions
Re: Mobbing in Switzerland

If there is an HR department, go to them and ask to see a copy of the policy on performance based requests like these superiors have made . Expalin the scenerio to HR. One needs to have targets to work to naturally, ie as you say, what is better? what is faster? and get the folks satisfied with your current projects to write you a note. Get to it before it gets to you. Keep smiling and being friendly, superiors may back off if they see you're not threatened IF they have other motives than genuine perfromance improvement - one needs to know the base line and target to improve - get lots of sleep. Good luck
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank ozibird for this useful post:
  #75  
Old 24.02.2011, 15:07
Cosmicgirl's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: English Riviera
Posts: 257
Groaned at 11 Times in 6 Posts
Thanked 118 Times in 77 Posts
Cosmicgirl has no particular reputation at present
Re: Mobbing in Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
Thanks to everyone for their helpful posts. They're really helpful.

I am experiencing something similar at work right now. It's been going on for 8 months. It started with my direct superior and his boss calling me to a meeting to tell me I'm too slow, not working enough. I took it objectively and tried my best to work better and faster, but it didn't help. So I asked for some clearer indication of what they need/want, but got no answer - verbal or written. Just More, faster, better. 3 months later I get told I'm on a performance improvement plan and if I don't do better my job is gone.
I deliver my projects on time and the project teams are really happy with me and my work. But my bosses still insist I'm not good enough and gave me zero percent for my two main projects in our appraisals, even though I delivered

Weird.

Anyways, thanks for letting me vent

Cheers
FF
You're on your way out . Watch your back, find out your rights and document everything that happens or you will be shafted.
Also start applying for new jobs pronto!

This happened to me and 3 other non natives I know and we all ended up losing our jobs.

Is this one of the big Swiss banks or insurance companies?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Cosmicgirl for this useful post:
  #76  
Old 24.02.2011, 15:13
NotAllThere's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Baselland
Posts: 8,967
Groaned at 140 Times in 122 Posts
Thanked 12,243 Times in 5,007 Posts
NotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Mobbing in Switzerland

What your bosses appear to be trying to do is either get you to resign, or put you in a position where they can sack you.

I'm afraid the chances are, your job is over. Few companies are going to sack a manager and keep the worker. At best, you might get reassigned. But at least you can get some kind of compensation.

Make notes and gather all the evidence you can about the unreasonable behaviour of your bosses, and how you are viewed by the project. (One of the key issues in my case was that the PM graded me highly for one project, and my boss graded me "failed" for the same project).. After any meeting with them, write up the meeting, send them a copy and ask them to comment if they feel there are any inaccuracies. If you are having a negative response to work, e.g. feelings of dread when you think about work, inability to make everyday decisions, bad sleeping, impotency... go and see a doctor and get signed off for stress for a few weeks.

Then see HR and say you feel you are being mobbed. You might also consider spending a few hundred francs for a consultation with an employment lawyer.

All of the above is of coursed based on the understanding that you're not an incompetent workshy!
__________________
In accordance with Political Correctness guidelines, I've checked my privileges and come to the conclusion that I'm awesome.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank NotAllThere for this useful post:
  #77  
Old 24.02.2011, 15:32
Nil's Avatar
Nil Nil is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Basel
Posts: 10,378
Groaned at 442 Times in 346 Posts
Thanked 15,952 Times in 6,286 Posts
Nil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Mobbing in Switzerland

Coming from personal experience, I would never trust HR.

HR works for the company not for you. I had this experience of being stabbed in the back by HR who claimed to be there for the employees and went straight to the boss to tell him everything. Sadly, this is also a normal procedure at my husband's company he works for.

Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Nil for this useful post:
  #78  
Old 24.02.2011, 15:39
panda's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Zurich
Posts: 170
Groaned at 3 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 90 Times in 57 Posts
panda is considered knowledgeablepanda is considered knowledgeablepanda is considered knowledgeable
Re: Mobbing in Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
Why is the Swiss workplace susceptible to this 'mobbing'? Is it something particularly common to Germanic cultures or is it more common in Switzerland than elsewhere? I am part of a Germanic culture myself, but do not recognize this at all, and I am trying to understand where it is coming from, what is driving these people
I have seen it happen a lot, the people that do it are mostly very ambitious and willing to walk over dead bodies to get what they want, they are also usually not particularly good at what they do and try to make themselves look good by making other people look bad. The mixture of ambition and low ability seems to bring out the worst in people
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank panda for this useful post:
  #79  
Old 24.02.2011, 15:40
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Zurich and Thalwil
Posts: 535
Groaned at 38 Times in 25 Posts
Thanked 276 Times in 156 Posts
Focus has made some interesting contributions
Re: Mobbing in Switzerland

I will have to agree with "not all there".

You need to try to understand where mobbing comes from. In my opinion, a mobber/bully who needs to mob has their own low self esteem issues and finds the need to put other people down to elevate themselves.(It often happens on this list) These people find people who are sensitive or come across as weak or unable to defend themselevs. They are basically children in adults clothing. It boils down to how you respond to them. you can try to ignore them and not respond but in somes cases it might fuel the fire. You can stand up to them and they will usually back off and go find some other victim.

I must write though management skills are woefully lacking. Most people are not promoted to management because of their people skills. The course of action now adays is to hire a coach like me to fix the problem which is supposedly the employees.

I am afraid that it seems indemic to our modern society. Parents hire coaches and psychologists to fix the children and then children grow up and hire coaches to fix their children and their employess.

It takes courage and compassion to let someone go if need be but unforntuately there is not much of that going around.

I recently helped some one who was being mobbed to turn things around by focusing on how they responded at work. It worked well.
Reply With Quote
  #80  
Old 24.02.2011, 15:44
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Graubünden
Posts: 640
Groaned at 69 Times in 38 Posts
Thanked 421 Times in 255 Posts
Wasted has an excellent reputationWasted has an excellent reputationWasted has an excellent reputationWasted has an excellent reputation
Re: Mobbing in Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
Thanks to everyone for their helpful posts. They're really helpful.

I am experiencing something similar at work right now. It's been going on for 8 months. It started with my direct superior and his boss calling me to a meeting to tell me I'm too slow, not working enough. I took it objectively and tried my best to work better and faster, but it didn't help. So I asked for some clearer indication of what they need/want, but got no answer - verbal or written. Just More, faster, better. 3 months later I get told I'm on a performance improvement plan and if I don't do better my job is gone.
I deliver my projects on time and the project teams are really happy with me and my work. But my bosses still insist I'm not good enough and gave me zero percent for my two main projects in our appraisals, even though I delivered

Weird.

Anyways, thanks for letting me vent

Cheers
FF
Since you are on Performance Appraisal, why dont you ask your Managers to Evaluators how do they define "Faster and Better" in writing and also how do they intend to "Measure" it against your performance.

Get these in writing, NO verbal explainations and bear in mind objectives and performance have to be realistic, measureable and objective. (SMART)

You might not be able to keep your job, unfortunately, but you can do 2 things:

1) Gather evidence that you have been unfairly treated and get compensation.

2) Based on above, they might not sack you.

Its time to get a bit aggressive and assertive and no more "Yes Boss" attitude. Get selfish and look after yourself as first and paramount priority.

And even if you go down, unfortunately, atleast give some crap back to them and stress them out. So maybe one day when you'll look back you will not have any regrets being as Salmon - Swimming against the flow only to get fecked.

Job, you will find another, sooner or later, anyway. Good luck!
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Wasted for this useful post:
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
(non-EU) Can my spouse have a permit? pradbis Permits/visas/government 46 26.10.2016 14:43
Fact Sheet #3: Casinos in Switzerland litespeed Entertainment & dining 6 03.08.2011 19:52
My divorce story (family drama for a foreigner in Switzerland) expat Family matters/health 30 03.04.2010 01:25
Expats in Zurich...full of Swissies? Lob Other/general 36 10.01.2008 10:40
Tax In Switzerland Richard Finance/banking/taxation 7 08.11.2006 00:13


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 20:31.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0