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  #121  
Old 20.11.2013, 11:24
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Re: Mobbing in CH

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Switzerland –Swiss people has serious problems with languages! After hearing the umpteenth time from some Swiss people (people with a “high” education) having troubles to understand German language, I have the impression they can speak many languages but without having a fully understanding of their own mother tongue! Of course a similar situation generates incomprehension for abstracted concepts. On the other hand can it create a “domino” effect leading to a status of frustration and irremediably to bullying? Switzerland is technologically advanced and in the same time the “workers/employees” (any grade) do not have many rights, in fact anyone can be fired any time and with no reason! Is it an umpteenth example of bullying? What do you think?
After reading that post about language skills (and observing the spelling of Pfäffikon in your profile), I can only think of a stone in combination with this:
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  #122  
Old 20.11.2013, 11:45
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Re: Mobbing in CH

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After reading that post about language skills (and observing the spelling of Pfäffikon in your profile), I can only think of a stone in combination with this:
my "pfafficon" is a wilful-misspelling! My post and my opinions – but ah ah ah very good for a forum standard where “Academy of literature for the little towns spelling” thinking of small details not into the big picture loose the meaning of my question! Thanks for your thoughts anyway, I think the comparison matches: Swiss VS German (glass and stone)! Totally two different languages!
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  #123  
Old 20.11.2013, 16:14
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Re: Mobbing in Switzerland

I'm waiting for a face palm.
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  #124  
Old 20.11.2013, 19:50
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Re: Mobbing in Switzerland

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I'm waiting for a face palm.
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  #125  
Old 13.01.2014, 11:57
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Mobbing and bullying in Zurich can anyone advise

Hi everyone,

I'm looking for some help and advice. I live and work in Zurich and over the last year was subjected to a very uncomfortable work environment by my manager. I didn't really understand it as bullying until a friend showed me a web site that listed the symptoms that I had most of. Without going into the details I have just been sacked after bringing it to the company owners attention. Has anyone been in a similar situation or can give me advice on what to do ....? Thanks a lot.
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  #126  
Old 13.01.2014, 11:59
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Re: Mobbing and bullying in Zurich can anyone advise

Read these threads
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  #127  
Old 19.01.2014, 03:11
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Re: Mobbing and bullying in Zurich can anyone advise

This is a re-post... my friend also lost her partner of 11 years.. I am sure the strain of the workplace bullying contributed to this... she was never quite the same...

'A close friend lost her job due to (horizontal) mobbing by at least two colleagues in her department. The colleagues also turned her team against her. It was obviously strategic and although we hope we work in an adult environment, she was really working in a playground.

She always believed she was a victim to some form of bullying but since she was an adult (and not in school anymore) and because it is subtle, she didn't act on it eg colleague withholding information; not involving her in critical meetings; showing one face to the boss and another to her; agreeing to a request in front of the team, but then not delivering it so causing frustration; ostracizing her from after hours activities, ganging up with another colleague to make it look like they were a good team and therefore she was the problem, etc.

I talked with her for over a year on it, and I could see the emotional and physical strain it put her under. She also had a significant management position which was where she wanted to focus her energy being great at her job, so kept putting the issue and her head in the sand, so to speak. When she did speak to her boss about it, he put his head in the sand and was useless. So I advised her to tell the boss above him, and when she did, he also put his head in the sand! But, worse still, they told HR and given the result, I think they shifted her out instead of dealing with the matter (ie sack the real rotten apples) that was really destroying that department - and thus company objectives and results. They really lost a great asset to the team and the company goals. My friend took it pretty hard at the time because of the injustice and frustration and helplessness she felt.

Given this story and seeing/experiencing others in my work-life, I believe HR do not want to deal with or have the knowhow to eliminate mobbing, so people (mostly the victim) just get moved out. It exists even in corporations owning great brands where good people are the majority. I can also see that whilst you may be great at your job, if your face doesn't fit, or if you haven't built up a strong 'gang' of colleagues of your own so you don't appear vulnerable, then you have no chance. Even if your boss likes you and admires your work, and your performance reports are excellent, sooner or later he will also kowtow to the majority, just to save his own face and have a 'good' team (superficially).

Mobbing behaviour is just like carrion on a horse - once they dare to have a crack and open a wound, they will keep pecking away until the horse buckles. It is so important to work in a healthy environment given the amount of time spent there and the psychological effect which also gets taken home, that if you are affected by this behaviour and cannot effect change, best make a healthy choice for yourself. It's not worth getting sick over.
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  #128  
Old 19.01.2014, 03:27
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Re: Mobbing in Switzerland

It's quite diaheartening to read about these experiences but such is the corporate world....the mutual a**kissing, the behind the back chit-chatting, the neverending ratrace of trying to get ahead, gossips and rumors. I've witnessed plenty of mobbing in my work experience so far..one advice that I can give (and career-wise, I'm not even sure if it's a good one)...but be yourself and ferrrk the rest. At the end of the day, it's a paycheck...it you get terminated, it might as well be the door to something much greater. Many, well in fact most people who have ever achieved something really extraordinary in their life, had to overcome a great many obstancles and setbacks to get there.
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  #129  
Old 19.01.2014, 08:04
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Re: Mobbing in Switzerland

Life is hard; news at 11.

Bullying is miserable in any form, but really, people need to deal with it. I'd never heard of burnout and mobbing before I came to Switzerland, and it have a hard time picturing any of my coworkers back in the US doing anything but laughing if you tried to explain those concepts to them.

Long days? Miserable boss? Coworkers who don't like you and make it clear? Clearly you need to change something, whether it's internal - eg attitude - or external - eg job. No sense complaining about it.

While I can imagine that some of this leads to serious depression, I think a lot of people around here simply give up too easily; doctors here give certificates for time off the way that US doctors prescribe antidepressants, just call 'em up and ask for one.
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  #130  
Old 19.01.2014, 08:17
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Re: Mobbing in Switzerland

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...Bullying is miserable in any form, but really, people need to deal with it...
Exactly.

When I was subject to a campaign at work, one specific incident told me it was over; there was nothing I could do to make it work. So, I took a few weeks off (signed for by my doctor) for stress. Then, with a friend knowledgeable in my employer's HR practices, planned my exit strategy.

As he said "It's just a job. It isn't worth your life. Get ready to leave".

I'm so much better off now than I ever could have been with that job. Of course, getting a good pay off (or in the extreme, going legal) requires that you document every little instance of harassment.

There's not much protection against workplace bullying, but there is some, so it is worth consulting a lawyer.
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  #131  
Old 19.01.2014, 09:17
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Re: Mobbing in Switzerland

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There's not much protection against workplace bullying, but there is some, so it is worth consulting a lawyer.
Yes, this.
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  #132  
Old 19.01.2014, 09:35
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Re: Mobbing in Switzerland

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Life is hard; news at 11.

Bullying is miserable in any form, but really, people need to deal with it. I'd never heard of burnout and mobbing before I came to Switzerland, and it have a hard time picturing any of my coworkers back in the US doing anything but laughing if you tried to explain those concepts to them.

Long days? Miserable boss? Coworkers who don't like you and make it clear? Clearly you need to change something, whether it's internal - eg attitude - or external - eg job. No sense complaining about it.

While I can imagine that some of this leads to serious depression, I think a lot of people around here simply give up too easily; doctors here give certificates for time off the way that US doctors prescribe antidepressants, just call 'em up and ask for one.
I understand and agree with what you're saying - up to a point.

Not everybody can ignore bullying attitude and some people are more fragile than others, due to personal history for instance.

I know that I'm a very sensitive person, and that I shouldn't let mobbing touch me, but it's easier said than done... I feel that your post can be seen as hurtful for the people who don't have the strength to have the attitude you prone.
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  #133  
Old 19.01.2014, 13:30
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Re: Mobbing in Switzerland

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I understand and agree with what you're saying - up to a point.

Not everybody can ignore bullying attitude and some people are more fragile than others, due to personal history for instance.

I know that I'm a very sensitive person, and that I shouldn't let mobbing touch me, but it's easier said than done... I feel that your post can be seen as hurtful for the people who don't have the strength to have the attitude you prone.
Exactly.

Psychopathy (what those who engage in mobbing, bullying & related behaviors are afflicted with) is far more common than the mental health industry is willing to admit (in great part because many, many mental health professionals are psychopaths and protecting their own), which has led in turn to a dearth of accurate information and understanding being made available to the general public. Say "psychopath" to most people and they think you mean some sort of raving maniac, but this is far from the case. SAPs (Socially Adept Psychopaths) are far more prevalent than most people realize. To make it even more confusing, they come in all degrees, from mild to blatant, and everything in between.

One of the first things a psychopath will attempt to do is shift any and all blame for any problems completely away from themselves and onto the other person ("You misunderstood me." "You're too thin-skinned." "Maybe you just don't fit in here."). The examples of mobbing given on this thread are, to me, clearly coming from people who have encountered one or more psychopaths in their work environment (they do team up to prosecute an immediate, short-term goal) and are completely confused or frightened about how to deal with them. That's the problem for non-psychopaths...they don't understand why someone would be so mean or lacking in sympathy/empathy, not understanding that psychopaths are incapable of such. Which feeds into the unfortunate conviction that it's all their (the victim's) fault somehow.

Ok, so here I am on my sixth or so post sticking my neck out...I shall interested to see how this is received...
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  #134  
Old 19.01.2014, 13:39
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Re: Mobbing in Switzerland

Perhaps..... perhaps..... but in a country where good work references are extremely important, tis best not to rock the boat.
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  #135  
Old 19.01.2014, 14:12
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Re: Mobbing in Switzerland

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Exactly.

Psychopathy (what those who engage in mobbing, bullying & related behaviors are afflicted with) is far more common than the mental health industry is willing to admit (in great part because many, many mental health professionals are psychopaths and protecting their own), which has led in turn to a dearth of accurate information and understanding being made available to the general public. Say "psychopath" to most people and they think you mean some sort of raving maniac, but this is far from the case. SAPs (Socially Adept Psychopaths) are far more prevalent than most people realize. To make it even more confusing, they come in all degrees, from mild to blatant, and everything in between.

One of the first things a psychopath will attempt to do is shift any and all blame for any problems completely away from themselves and onto the other person ("You misunderstood me." "You're too thin-skinned." "Maybe you just don't fit in here."). The examples of mobbing given on this thread are, to me, clearly coming from people who have encountered one or more psychopaths in their work environment (they do team up to prosecute an immediate, short-term goal) and are completely confused or frightened about how to deal with them. That's the problem for non-psychopaths...they don't understand why someone would be so mean or lacking in sympathy/empathy, not understanding that psychopaths are incapable of such. Which feeds into the unfortunate conviction that it's all their (the victim's) fault somehow.

Ok, so here I am on my sixth or so post sticking my neck out...I shall interested to see how this is received...
Good neck sticking. Excellent post.
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  #136  
Old 19.01.2014, 14:18
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Re: Mobbing in Switzerland

I have been under mild forms of mobbing in CH couple of times. The mobbers attack your credibility, integrity and try by all means to put you in that stress situation. If one could only give back exactly the opposite of what they are seeking would be fantastic but it is very hard to do:
  • Translate their attacks in your mind into silly jokes that make them look ridiculous. Laugh at them!
  • Use their mobbing energy to boost your creativity and produce more amazing results, it is often the case that the mobbers target people they are jealous of. Producing great results that they can't will put them in misery.
  • Mobbing should be seen therefore as some twisted form of flattering, they have recognized that you are talented and that's why the fear and target you. Understand it as a "you have something they don't".
Mobbing is the tool and self-preservation instinct of the mediocre to target the talented because they are jealous, feel insecure and can't compete. Deeply understand that. It is their only way to stand out, they can not go up further so they have to push down others.
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  #137  
Old 19.01.2014, 14:34
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Re: Mobbing in Switzerland

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I have been under mild forms of mobbing in CH couple of times. The mobbers attack your credibility, integrity and try by all means to put you in that stress situation. If one could only give back exactly the opposite of what they are seeking would be fantastic but it is very hard to do:
  • Translate their attacks in your mind into silly jokes that make them look ridiculous. Laugh at them!
  • Use their mobbing energy to boost your creativity and produce more amazing results, it is often the case that the mobbers target people they are jealous of. Producing great results that they can't will put them in misery.
  • Mobbing should be seen therefore as some twisted form of flattering, they have recognized that you are talented and that's why the fear and target you. Understand it as a "you have something they don't".
Mobbing is the tool and self-preservation instinct of the mediocre to target the talented because they are jealous, feel insecure and can't compete. Deeply understand that. It is their only way to stand out, they can not go up further so they have to push down others.
Another excellent post. You guys are cookin' on fire today..
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  #138  
Old 19.01.2014, 16:00
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Being different is not easy...

Well I have psychic and healing abilities and it was my private hobby to go to courses to learn how to deal better with them, because it is not easy to live with. I didn't choose to be like that, just born into it... In England it is more normal, one knows of spiritualist Churches, healers, mysterious Castles ecc. Long history in that respect. But in Switzerland many find or found it very suspicious.


Concerning my work at the office years ago (now I am indepent with my own Massage practice)... just talking about it when asked what my hobbies were they reacted shocked and avoided me as if I had a contagious disease. They talked always bad behind my back. This just, because themselves they were afraid of these paranormal things and had not got these abilities or didn't allow them to show up. It was a big struggle to deal with people being against you, but I got used to guys laughing at me. I now have few friends, but thats Ok. Better few nice friends, than being surrounded by many who aren't proper friends anyway. Made me stronger I suppose!


Now in situations where for example a Businessman looks down on me I smile and think to myself: If you knew what I could find out about you with my abilities, you wouldn't laugh anymore.... But of course I don't go into that for it would mean work for me and probably not very nice things about his past would show up... but just knowing I could makes me smile...


What does not kill you, makes you stronger one says in Switzerland!

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  #139  
Old 19.01.2014, 16:15
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Re: Mobbing in Switzerland

Huh. That pretty much wraps that up.
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Old 19.01.2014, 16:24
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Re: Being different is not easy...

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Well I have psychic and healing abilities and it was my private hobby to go to courses to learn how to deal better with them, because it is not easy to live with. I didn't choose to be like that, just born into it... In England it is more normal, one knows of spiritualist Churches, healers, mysterious Castles ecc. Long history in that respect. But in Switzerland many find or found it very suspicious.


Concerning my work at the office years ago (now I am indepent with my own Massage practice)... just talking about it when asked what my hobbies were they reacted shocked and avoided me as if I had a contagious disease. They talked always bad behind my back. This just, because themselves they were afraid of these paranormal things and had not got these abilities or didn't allow them to show up. It was a big struggle to deal with people being against you, but I got used to guys laughing at me. I now have few friends, but thats Ok. Better few nice friends, than being surrounded by many who aren't proper friends anyway. Made me stronger I suppose!


Now in situations where for example a Businessman looks down on me I smile and think to myself: If you knew what I could find out about you with my abilities, you wouldn't laugh anymore.... But of course I don't go into that for it would mean work for me and probably not very nice things about his past would show up... but just knowing I could makes me smile...


What does not kill you, makes you stronger one says in Switzerland!


About " in Switzerland many find or found it very suspicious." - I am surprised you post this; in my experience there is a very large esoteric community in Switzerland. My wife has run an esoteric practice for many years that includes advice on dealing with being mobbed.


Just Google "Switzerland esoteric " and you will see close to a million results.
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