Hi all,

Sorry if I'm going over old ground, but I've done a search and can't find the answer (probably because I'm so tired).

Does anybody know what the maximum legal amount of working hours are in this country? I'm an IT Engineer in a private bank and my contract is quite vague. It states that my working hours are 40 per week. Quite standard, and given the role of my job, overtime (normally unpaid) is expected.

Problem being, is that for the last 3 weeks, I've worked between 60 and 80. My boss is somewhat of a workaholic and pretty much lives at the office. The "be careful you're on probation" comments are made when I leave after 12 hours, and come a weekend, I have to pretty much ask permission if I want to go away.

I've got my end of probation review coming up soon and I'm going to mention this in the HR interview as to be honest, I really can't take this if it's going to be a long term thing.

Seeing as my trains only run till 12:25 at night, I think I'm going to ask for a loyalty card from the City Hotel!

The law in Zurich
http://www.arbeitsbedingungen.zh.ch/...nrichtung.html

in a nutshell:
http://www.netzwerk.ch/site/index.cfm?id_art=31346&vsprache=de

Goldtop, the URL is still wrong in your post. Invisible URL tags got me too, when editing links. Thanks for proving that I'm not hallucinating. Here's the right one, for your convenience:

http://www.netzwerk.ch/site/index.cf...46&vsprache=de

Also, there are some bits of information about the issue on this thread:

Working Hours NOT in the Employment Contract

der Inselaffe I feel your pain. Don't know how it is in your industry, but as a Manager in the Hospitality industry, 60-80 hours is pretty much the norm.

What I do know is that hours worked are a very sensitive issue for Swiss people. Any more than 45 hours really upsets them. My Swiss wife, a manager in the media industry, might work 2 extra hours once in a couple of weeks, but certainly not every single day. She would address it immediately.

Talk to your boss about it. There is no harm in finding out exactly what they expect of you. Your boss might need to work longer as his duties are different to yours. He needs to put in extra hours because his bosses expect it of him/her. What is expected of you?

Sorry I couldn't be of more help. If it really disturbs you as it appears to, you need to find a solution. No job is worth ruining your life.

Best of luck.

Important questions below, at least for me.

- Can somebody tell me what are the typical working hours in swiss companies? 9-5?

-Do employers abide by the law? Is there any goverment/canton control for employers that force their employees to work many additional hours?

-Do working hours written down in contracts?

-Can an employee just leave from the company when the typical working hours pass? Or a boss can force him exceed the normal working hours telling him that maybe he will be fired?

- Is there any legal protection for employees about the normal apply of working hours conditions?

- Is overtime employment an agreement which should be made from the first time an employee get the job?

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I understand that sometimes maybe there is real need for some additional work.
But this should be done with the consent of employee. No way for the employer to exhaust the employers because of his mind decision.

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I wait some responses for the above questions.

i suggest you use the search function on this forum and read some of the posts or maybe buy the the book.

I think my questions are relevant to what we discuss here.

yes so do i, but you are not showing much initiative in finding the information for yourself. many of your questions are answered in here already, i have suggested the search function. and certainly that book i suggested is priceless for the information you need.

I am not the first to think we are becoming your personal skivvy!

I just wanna tell that I read hundreds of topics today. Hours and hours of reading.
Maybe from human fault I did not see where the right answers are.
I post each of my questions to the appropriate topic.
I do not understand if there is problematic posting questions. I really cannot understand.
I just asking as anybody else does.
Today I had the time to spend many hours in this forum.
Next days I will not.
So today I posted all the questions which I have unanswered, though I read a lot.
Brainstorming. I dont understand why this is a problem.

The problem is that your asking what has already been answered numerous times in many post should you look, and there are also many books and official that cover them. People are happy to help, especially when the poster shows like they have put a little effort in themselves.
Loading your maybe's on the op's thread is not helpful.... but at least stops you from starting another.

To the op, you've been given some good links and I hope the situation resolves itself soon.

At a federal level SECO is responsible. For example, I work in a 24/7 operation,and for that my employer had to request approval from SECO for our working hours.

One thing is for sure...unless you are part of management (Mitglied der Geschäftsleitung) your employer is obliged to record your working hours, and you are entitled to be compensated (Time in Lieu or payment). He/she can be penalised just for failing to keep these records.

My husband's contract as well as mine have a normal working week (number of hours) written in them. Also, because we are teachers, we have separate numbers for 'teaching' and 'non teaching' hours, and our weekly rosters also show 'preparation' time and 'meeting' time as well as 'class' time...


In Australia there is a distinction between 'wage' and 'salary' - wage is an hourly rate and if you work 'overtime' you are expected to be compensated for the hours, either time in lieu or paid overtime.

A 'salary' earner is paid to do a specific job, based on a 'reasonable' number of hours. Being 'on call' may be part of the job, but should be compensated in some way (extra salary, bonus)...

I've worked for several work-a-holics, and my husband has worked for a few very uncompassionate people as well...it's down to the individual boss, not the 'career' or 'job'...if it feels like slavery, it probably is...

Although there are some similarities between contracts here and other western countries, be aware that Switzerland does take the Labour laws very seriously. Unless you are management, you work your stated hours, anything more than that is entitled to compensation....in theory.

Problem is in practice, if you want to complain about breaches of work laws, you normally end up out of a job pretty quick.

Normal working hours: 42 hours max by law. Some employers have 40 hour weeks. What's legal: your employer can force you to work over-time over a clearly defined period of time if the situation requires it.
The compensation of over-time isn't clearly defined per law - some employers pay out over-time, others let you compensate in equal free time.

Some management contracts contain flat-rate over-time management. Meaning that you'll get an extra week of vacation in compensation for all of your over-time. This is very common - but it's NOT technically legal. It's still practiced all over the place because the companies know exactly that nobody's going to sue them. Taking legal actions against your employer means you're entering a world of pain. It'll cost you a fortune, it'll cost you your job and you can be sure that your employer can afford better lawyers than you. Some employers were successfully sued (like some fast-food chains) but usually the whole thing just back-fires (the employer will try to convince the court that he didn't force you to work over-time permanently but that you did so on your own free will) or ends in some sort of settlement (meaning you get some money and still lose your job).

It's, btw. not true that the Swiss work less on average. Total work-time is way above European average (especially above Germany and France) and is somewhere close to the US. Average work-time in IT in the US is around 48 hours per week. In Switzerland it's 49.
The Swiss have more vacation days than US residents but about 40% only take half of the vacation days they are entitled to by law and / or contract because they're either afraid to lose their jobs, they're workaholics or they're just stupid.

Peter

-So, reading your useful comments above, should I believe that in general, normal working hours are almost applied as they should be?
Employers do take care of declaring all the working hours of each one of their employers and in any case of ovetime the compensate them?

-9-5 are the most common working hours for most office jobs? Is this real or it is supposed that employees leaving the offices but the majority are still there even after the expiration of working time?

-Can an employee refuse to work more hours from his normal working time? (mainly if this is not declared in the contract and it happens often). Is it ok to do it?

8 1/2 hours is standard work time + 1/2 hour for lunch break (usually not included in the work time). So normal hours are 8-5.

Yes, you can refuse to work more hours but you'll probably get yourself fired very quickly that way (for another reason).

Peter

Most employers will respect the employment laws, but there are always exceptional circumstances that require extra effort, those that can't be flexible in the current market should keep their CV updated. But please ensure you inform any potential employer of you clock watching preference... I'm sure it will postion you well on the hiring list

I agree with Peter - 8.5 hours per day will be the minimum work hours for most positions. 9-5 would be too short a day. The norm is 8-5 or 9-6, or for those early risers that don't have to deal with the US 7-4. That is with a half hour lunch break. My workplace lets us go for 45 mins lunch and 2x15 min extra paid breaks during the day, mainly to control the smoke breaks. Rather generous in my opinion. I had one workplace in Sydney that said we could only use the bathroom during our scheduled break times

I've been here now for 20 years and have worked for 9 companies in that time and I have yet to see a situation like this in IT. In every team I worked on or lead, all employees working past 42 hours were fully compensated and all holidays were taken. With a few exceptions, most employees worked over time for say 5 or 6 weeks a year during things like year end processing or project deadlines. The few exceptions mentioned were people who wanted to do things like 42 hours over four days, take extra holidays and so on.

Best Regards,

Jim.