Hello,

I'm Vadim. I'm non-EU national, but living in Italy. I tried many times to apply for a job in Switzerland, but getting only "unfortunately there are many other candidates who fits better to this position". Then, I decided to talk to recruiters to understand what's up with my profile, is it so ugly? Some of them told me directly that they and employers even don't consider non-EU nationals for the junior positions (2-3 years of work experience). So, he adviced me to continue working in Italy until senior level, then try in Switzerland.
When I watch TV and hear about human right violations in Russia, Iran or China, I'm laughting because in the hearth of Europe we have the same cases.

Cheers to all. Be optimist anyway.

As sad as your situation might be I do not think anyone is violating your human rights!
I do not know your background but if you were qualified enough you might have been given the job. I tell you this because I am sort of a junior in experience (6 years) and I am from South America but I still got a job here.
Nevertheless I wish you good luck in your job hunting, everyone deserves it!

Cheers!

Angela

You are comparing apples and bananas. What a logic And if you get a job in CH, they are not violating human rights???

I am EU and with 15 years IT Helpdesk experience. 5 languages fluently and learning German. I've been trying my luck at finding a job here for 2 years and more actively since January. I also haven't had any luck.

It is an ageist culture I can tell you that. I am 40 and the age limit for non too senior positions in 35. In the UK is now illegal to put an age limit on the add. Here it is very common.

If you are already working in Italy and have a job then stick to it mate. Crisis has hit everywhere. I left my job last year thinking it will be easy to walk into another one but nope. It's not.

Good luck

Angela, with all my respect, 6 years of experience is not a junior level. I also don't know your background and how you found a job (if you wish, please, share with us), hence I will not express my opinion on it. My background is finance/investment, working for asset management and treasury departments (in Italy and Belgium), speaking fluent 4 languages. Maybe, 2-3 years work experience is not enough to convince swiss companies. The problem is that I don't get be interviewed by companies, if I did and failed then I could say that I'm not good enough. All process stops when recruiters finds out my nationality. Of course, crisis contributed to all this happened.

Well compared to people who have 20-25 years experience under their belt it is pretty much junior looking to me.

So you consider 6 years to be senior, or...?

In any case, I don't know which part of Switzerland you live in, but unless one of those 4 "fluent" languages is the language of that region, it won't do you all that much good. For the past year or so, lack of German skills has been an automatic cut-off for employers in this region. Are the languages you speak (I'm guessing Italian, Belgian, Russian and English?) needed by the companies you're applying to?

Remember that the law requires employers to seek EUs before non-EUs (I myself am non-EU). So unless you have skills that relatively few people have, including significant experience to show it, AND those skills are required for that position, you're going to have a rough time. It can be done, but you're most likely going to have to think long term.

And with all due respect, refusing someone who wants to move into your country a work permit is hardly a "human rights violation".

Lance

Ha-ha. This is a typical answer of Europeans. Go to this link and read the recruter's message in the bottom of the page: http://www.futurewatch.ch/register2.htm. At least this recruiter recognizes, others don't.
But, what about equal rights regardless nationality, religion, age etc.? From your point of view, is it not a discrimination? I want to be equally treated, I would like to participate in the interviews and be judged by knowledge and not be rejected just because of nationality. The same like Tibetians in China.

I consider 6 years junior and so does my company. I am though highly skilled, but won't go into my credentials because that is off-topic. A senior in my company has at least 12 years experience.

My story is pretty simple, I applied for the job and got it, I think I am very lucky but I also have worked very hard for all I have.

As for equal opportunities, that would not be fair to the natives. Every country in the EU has to look first into the native people, then EU then rest of the world and this is well known. Still this is NOT a human rights violation. And to say that it is, it's simply ridiculous.

Listen my friend,

I think you watch too much TV. Where in the world there are equal rights for a citizen of a country and a non-citizen. What makes you think you have a RIGHT to work in CH? Oh sorry about that, I guess CH companies should prepare a red carpet for your arrival

I dont think the problem is necessarily convincing the swiss companies that you are capable of doing the job, rather convincing the authorities that there is no one else already here capable of doing the job.

I doubt this is something you would find only in CH or EU - most countries have some similar process. As you stated, in times of crisis this situation is going to be worse than normal, supply and demand and all that.

Good question. I answer you by questioning: what level is 2-3 years of exprience? Recent graduate?

You almost guessed except Belgian languge, which doesn't exist. I know that German is almost a must in Zurich area, therefore, I was applying for English speaking companies, or companies focused on EMEA. Tell you my last experience with Dow Jones. I got 1st interview with a manager of the company. So, he liked my profile, language skills, told me that job is pretty simple, hence he was excited about my candidature, and me of course. The last question, he asked me whether I was Romanian, I was not. Then, his enthusiasm disappeared a bit, he referred to the lawyer he needed to be advised. A couple days later, I got that my profile doesn't really match job requirements (remember, he told that job is pretty simple). Conclussion, he thought I was Romanian (EU national), otherwise my candidature was rejected.

I know about this law and that's why I'm saying it's a discrimination or human rights violation. So, I'm not equally treated, just after "good guys", like EU-nationals.

If you do speak Russian, your best shot would be to apply at certain shops in Zurich Bahnhofstrasse (Zurich's high street). Due to having so many Russian shoppers (very rich), the shops usually look for Russian speaking people.

You almost concluded right, with the exception that Romania is not on par with the other EU nations as far as hiring is concerned - they're still subject to Swiss and EU-15 hiring priority as well.

So maybe you weren't discriminated after all ^^.

Now, do you speak any brabançon or limbourgeois?

in some companies 2 years is the test period.

you are wrong.

It is not discrimination, or a thing of good guys or bad guys.

It is simply that Switzerland is a very small country with very high income levels.

There are millions of people ( even more than the actual swiss population ) around the world that would want to come work here.

It is simply impossible for the country to receive them all and give them all the same rights.

BTW, right now you don't have any rights here, because you are a foreigner and you are not here.

You could obtain rights if you get accepted by the authorities.

And the authorities set the rules for accepting applicants from abroad.

Switzerland has bilateral agreements with the EU, so they get an special treatment.

that is what is all about.

To get a working permit here, you need 3 things.

1. An employer willing to hire you
2. If you are a foreigner, the employer has to prove to the authorities, there is nobody else already in Switzerland ( Swiss, first, EU next, rest of the world last ) who are qualified for that job, if there is nobody in Switzerland, the EU nationals who are not in Switzerland have priority. Those are the rules and they are simply that, difficult to overcome.
3. The authorities, check your profile, and your criminal records on your coutry of origin before issuing a permit.

As the process of proving No. 2 is so complicated and costly, and in addition there is local and EU unemployment, it is far more easy for a company to get a local or EU, so they simply won't bother with your application.

If you were a high skilled professional on an speciality not avaliable in Switzerland or Europe you'd get a chance.

But for finance ? We have plenty of bankers here already.

Listen to me, you are not my body, so, please change your sarcastic stile. I'm saying that decision on employment in CH is taken by looking at your nationality, and only then on your skills. This make me angry and I feel to be discriminated.

Good luck.

I think you'll find that around the world. Why would a company hire someone who required expensive and lengthy - and full of red tape - visa issues when they would find someone qualified to do the job that doesn't need a visa? You'll find that going to any country.

Usually only those with unique skills make it past that visa hurdle, particularly these days with the economy in trouble.

You are not updated. This year it was a referendum in Switzerland and Swiss people agreed to let Romanians to work in CH on a free movement basis (like EU-nationals): http://euobserver.com/9/27566 .
Now, in Belgium people speak Flemish (or Dutch), French and Luxembourgish. I was working in the English speaking company, so only English as many do.

Yup. I would take someone with 2-3 years for an entry level position, or if they were incredible in an interview, I might consider them for something with a little responsibility.

Yeah, ok, you got me there. Not enough coffee yet.

Aside from the fact that the hiring manager didn't know about the special status of Romania within the EU, this is absolutely right, legal, and even mandatory. No big deal. Want to work in America? Same thing. Fact of the matter is, there are countries that are considered "desirable" by many people around the world, and those countries have every right to choose whether to accept people or not. Other countries have the same right but are likely to be less choosy because they have a smaller group of people wanting in - sort of like a company hiring someone for a job.

Also, consider that very many people in this country speak English at a higher level than you; English-only companies are likely to be flooded with more experienced applicants these days.


Sounds like you've a bit of a chip on your shoulder there. I realize the job search can be frustrating, but if you let any of this attitude flow into your application letters or such, you'll really kill your chances. Take a deep breath, realize that the world doesn't always work the way you want, and... keep trying.