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  #21  
Old 03.12.2009, 17:29
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Re: MBA - is it worth it ?

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Good A-level maths will see you through. Certainly helps if you have a handle on calculus at least from a conceptual standpoint for the economics courses and the probability and statisitcs courses, but we have lawyers in the class to who will get through these subjects with the help of the group and will contribute more in other less mathematical subjects further down the line. I imagine if you take the MBA/EMBA at somewhere like Imperial College, London then the emphasis on the maths is higher. I don't think an (E)MBA is the right qualification to choose to prove mathematical prowess though. Especially in finance I see the CQF offered by Wilmott gaining traction. I chose my school based on it's overall business education offering and leadership/managerial ethos rather than the technical level of the courses.
Thanks, and how is it examined? Exams + coursework/dissertation?
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Old 03.12.2009, 17:43
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Re: MBA - is it worth it ?

Modules are a mix of class participation (~10%), team assignments completed with your study group (~30%), and exams (~the rest%) which are either completed on site or at home and returned via email ~two hours after receiving them. Exams are typically open book.
There is a thesis as well at the end. I think it is about 25% of the overall mark. No one really fails the course. Working like a dog is compulsory but they want you to learn and go to great lengths to make sure you do and by the time the exams come around you are in a position to pass them.
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Old 03.12.2009, 18:02
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Re: MBA - is it worth it ?

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I also learned how to answer questions with a simple yes or no.
During the discussion in my MBA course the default answer was "it depends"... I think the value of an MBA depends heavily on your own background. I would go so far to say that your background is even more important than the school you choose to study at.

I completely disagree that it only makes sense for people with a business background: Quite the opposite is true. If you already have an undergraduate in business or finance and have some work experience in your field, you will not learn very much in the MBA. If you are however a technical person and want to move on from being an engineer for example into management, sales or anything that has more to do with money than you purely technical engineering job, you will need to understand how a company works "in general". This is exactly what you can expect from an MBA: Generic knowledge on business that you will need to apply for your industry or company by yourself.

Therefore, I personally believe that it makes close to zero sense to make an MBA before you have a couple of years of work experience: If you have never ever worked, you cannot match the generic knowledge to your situation. So you will take out much less from the same lessons as somebody more experienced.

Can you learn the same by reading the textbooks alone? You might get the knowledge, but in my course the really interesting parts were the discussions.
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Old 03.12.2009, 18:21
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Re: MBA - is it worth it ?

I could not agree with this more. We have bankers, marketing people, engineers, entrepeneurs, and even a real live rocket scientist in the class. That knowledge makes the discussions such an important and enjoyable part of the whole study experience.

Lol, and "It depends" is definitely the best answer to a lot of questions. The value comes in then being able to justify your answer..


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During the discussion in my MBA course the default answer was "it depends"...

<snip>

Therefore, I personally believe that it makes close to zero sense to make an MBA before you have a couple of years of work experience: If you have never ever worked, you cannot match the generic knowledge to your situation. So you will take out much less from the same lessons as somebody more experienced.

Can you learn the same by reading the textbooks alone? You might get the knowledge, but in my course the really interesting parts were the discussions.
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Old 03.12.2009, 19:59
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Re: MBA - is it worth it ?

The overwhelming majority of people who pursue MBAs do it for one reason: higher paying jobs.

My personal philosophy is that the sole advantage of having money is not having to think about it.

Studying for an MBA is the exact opposite, and guarantees a lifetime of money-centric existence.

I would avoid it like the plague. Unless you don't have much else going for you.

Money at least can rent happiness.
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Old 03.12.2009, 20:31
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Re: MBA - is it worth it ?

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...Lol, and "It depends" is definitely the best answer to a lot of questions. The value comes in then being able to justify your answer..
My experience is to disagree, while trying not to frustrate the person you're disagreeing with; it may annoy them but you'll certainly be invited to the next dinner

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The overwhelming majority of people who pursue MBAs do it for one reason: higher paying jobs.

My personal philosophy is that the sole advantage of having money is not having to think about it.

Studying for an MBA is the exact opposite, and guarantees a lifetime of money-centric existence.

I would avoid it like the plague. Unless you don't have much else going for you.

Money at least can rent happiness.
I didn't get the feeling the OP was oriented that way. It can be a truly rewarding experience just to learn in a dynamic and friendly environment, when team work and a sense of solidarity of purpose is present. You may end up working with a young, clean shaven, hungry pack of wolverines though, so research the profile of your place of study carefully.
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Old 03.12.2009, 22:01
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Re: MBA - is it worth it ?

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worth it? pay off? same education by reading business related material & build a network by joining a golf club?
It pays off if you are meant for some kind of management/consulting and only if its a top ranked school. Don't waste your time/money on anything below the top 50 MBAs

http://www.economist.com/business-education/whichmba/

I wouldn't go to IESE though. Its run by the Opus Dei.
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Old 03.12.2009, 22:05
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Re: MBA - is it worth it ?

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I completely disagree that it only makes sense for people with a business background: Quite the opposite is true.
Quite right. In fact, the MBA was invented by Harvard Business School in 1908 to cater to engineers moving into management positions; they were skilled functional professionals, but lacked management knowledge and "soft skills" (people management skills, mostly).

I also have a Master of Commerce degree but found the MBA added substantially in the field of managing people and processes. One shouldn't discount the degree just because one has a basic business degree already.

And a neat segue -- it really surprises me how many people say to me. "oh, you have an MBA and a Master's degree?!" What do they think the M in MBA stands for?!
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Old 03.12.2009, 22:18
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Re: MBA - is it worth it ?

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It pays off if you are meant for some kind of management/consulting and only if its a top ranked school. Don't waste your time/money on anything below the top 50 MBAs

http://www.economist.com/business-education/whichmba/
, very funny, thanks for sharing that joke.

There are about as many league tables for MBAs as there are schools offering the degree. Each table uses different factors to come up with its list. What really matters to you? Salary within 6 months of graduation? Number of citations in published literature per member of faculty? Diversity of students by nationality, religion, ethnicity? Choose your table ...

To see Harvard ranked 5 and Stanford 7 is a little out of step with most ranking tables; this is The Economist demonstrating Euro-bias.

I could show you league tables that don't feature any Australian MBAs and others that show my school in the top ten worldwide.

The MBA is the quintessential American business degree and I believe that most employers (including Swiss companies) look to the best-known US MBA league tables for guidance.
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Old 03.12.2009, 23:10
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Re: MBA - is it worth it ?

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, very funny, thanks for sharing that joke.
You are welcome, apparently I'm improving, people always tell me that I'm not funny.

The gist of the message though was that if you are going to spend a chunk of money and a sizeable part of your life in something like this, you should go for a top class school. Didn't mean to offend you or your Australian School for not being shown in The Economist ranking.


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  #31  
Old 03.12.2009, 23:37
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Re: MBA - is it worth it ?

I was curious to see in facts how European, Swiss or American biased is Switzerland regarding MBA qualifications.

I run a search in Linkedin: "MBA" as a keyword for all Swiss based Linkedin members. The results here:

10,251 results for mba, CH
  • Universität St. Gallen-Hochschule für Wirtschafts-, Rechts- und Sozialwissenschaften (666)
  • IMD (International Institute for Management Development) - Business Programs (573)
  • INSEAD (535)
  • Eidgenössische Technische Hochschule Zürich (477)
  • Ecole polytechnique fédérale de Lausanne (440)
  • University of Geneva (393)
  • HEC Lausanne - School of Business (309)
  • Universität Zürich (269)
  • Université de Geneve (239)

It looks very-very Swiss with the exception of INSEAD. Doesn't speak a lot about Swiss glabalization. I am a bit surprised actually.

now, lets do the same search but adding the keyword "director":

3,378 results for mba director, CH
  • IMD (International Institute for Management Development) - Business Programs (256)
  • INSEAD (239)
  • Universität St. Gallen-Hochschule für Wirtschafts-, Rechts- und Sozialwissenschaften (209)
  • Eidgenössische Technische Hochschule Zürich (132)
  • Ecole polytechnique fédérale de Lausanne (115)
  • University of Geneva (104)
  • HEC Lausanne - School of Business (97)
  • Universität Zürich (97)
  • Harvard Business School (82)

Harvard boys (and girls) start to show up in those higher ranking jobs.

Now lets go for people with the word "president"

1,353 results for mba president, CH
  • IMD (International Institute for Management Development) - Business Programs (103)
  • INSEAD (101)
  • Universität St. Gallen-Hochschule für Wirtschafts-, Rechts- und Sozialwissenschaften (84)
  • Eidgenössische Technische Hochschule Zürich (59)
  • Harvard Business School (56)
  • Ecole polytechnique fédérale de Lausanne (55)
  • London Business School (40)
  • HEC Lausanne - School of Business (37)
  • University of Geneva (37)

LBS starts to show up too.

I could continue with more keywords but it will start to become boring. Yes, the words director and president could mean nothing because people can be CEOs of their toilets. Statistically though, I would say these findings are significant, even more so, considering that Linkedin is more American than European or Swiss. If there is a bias, it should favour America.
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  #32  
Old 03.12.2009, 23:50
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Re: MBA - is it worth it ?

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The gist of the message though was that if you are going to spend a chunk of money and a sizeable amount of your life in something like this, you should go for a top class school. Didn't mean to offend you or your Australian School for not being shown in The Economist ranking.

Well, it depends.

I do not think that a full time MBA at a "top school" is automatically the right thing for everyone. I know several people who have done their courses in hardly known local Swiss schools part-time and are entire happy about it. They are locals and will probably stay here their entire life. So for them it was important to make local contacts with people of a simiar background. While you potentially do not sit in class with one of the future presidents of the USA, you can additionally continue to work, which is a bigger financial aspect than the tuition fees.
Making a "general ranking" based on criterias that should represent the average (or the editors opinion... ) is at least questionable. How can a journalist know what the average needs? I often see then arguments as "average salary increase after MBA". I find this completely misleading as the salary does not only depend on your business school, but your prior education and experience. If you are interested, here is something well written to read.

I am surprised that nobody has started the next typical topic: accreditation.
I find many of those discussions far over the top - just like some of the students. I believe that it is not too hard to see if a university is a serious academic institution or some "rather obscure" private school... and if I am able to make an educated guess on how good an education is, I am sure employers can do that as well (no matter what stamp is on the diploma). But it seems to be good business to accredit schools for the organizations that do so...
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Old 04.12.2009, 00:11
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Re: MBA - is it worth it ?

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Well, it depends.
I know several people who have done their courses in hardly known local Swiss schools part-time and are entire happy about it.
Of course, and there are people who like Marmite and guys that like elderly naked women. I was just explaining what is the most desirable path for the most widespread objectives that MBA candidates have. Yes its my perception, yes its my opinion because everything I say -other than mathematical expressions-, are just that: opinions (that hold the truth though...IMO ).
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Old 04.12.2009, 00:21
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Re: MBA - is it worth it ?

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...And a neat segue -- it really surprises me how many people say to me. "oh, you have an MBA and a Master's degree?!" What do they think the M in MBA stands for?!
I understand two M's together equal a 'J', as in "Jack of all Trades"...
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Old 11.12.2009, 19:31
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Re: MBA - is it worth it ?

Any thoughts on the UK Open University MBA ?

In some areas I understand the OU is highly regarded.

Maybe a prejudice by recruiters.
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Old 11.12.2009, 21:20
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Re: MBA - is it worth it ?

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Maybe a prejudice by recruiters.
Who cares if it is a prejudice? If this education would get you the job you want, go for it.

OU is pretty unknown in Switzerland/outside the Commonwealth. I think their programs sound good and are surely not inferior to other part-time options in Switzerland from an academic perspective. I would definitely hire somebody who demonstrated that he managed to study on his own besides working. Not everybody can motivate himself for this work.

What you can of course completely forget with this option is the network you would gain at a top school.

So "it depends" on the factors that are important for you.
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Old 13.12.2009, 12:37
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Re: MBA - is it worth it ?

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Who cares if it is a prejudice? If this education would get you the job you want, go for it.

OU is pretty unknown in Switzerland/outside the Commonwealth. I think their programs sound good and are surely not inferior to other part-time options in Switzerland from an academic perspective. I would definitely hire somebody who demonstrated that he managed to study on his own besides working. Not everybody can motivate himself for this work.

What you can of course completely forget with this option is the network you would gain at a top school.

So "it depends" on the factors that are important for you.
Piece of advice: don't follow people's advice with a "depends" word on it. Go for facts and consensus. Treverus is not going to hire you, so think on who's going to hire you in the future. I would not recommend OU. Not because it's bad but because it doesn't have the brand.
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Old 13.12.2009, 13:16
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Re: MBA - is it worth it ?

If you foresee your career in mangement and project leadership or want to become MD or even CEO of the firm, I would go for MBA as it can open wider window of opportunity for you and prepare better for such positions. Provided that your company will give you opportunity to get promoted. When right time comes it is also possible to put your cards on table and speak to your superior about your career path in the future. This is what you want to do and ask them to sponsor your further education in managment. Often times they would only consider it seriously if the candidate bring some assets for the oragnization in this directions.

The course of career usually takes you through few years of practical experience in the field, then you can start thinking of moving to sales or managment.

Giving example of friend of mine and myself.

He finished his MSc in engineering and worked for 15 years in R&D (basic and good salary) before he started his MBA. Now he is a project manager and earns good bucks.

Myself MSc then 7 years of practical experience in R&D (basic and good salary), then PhD backed with another 2 years of practical experience (very good salary) and now I consider to start with MBA within the next 2-3 years (hopefully towards excellent salary). Currently I am doing LCP (Leadership Challenge Programme) to get a hands on towards my MBA in the future.

It also very much depends on your predispositions, career path and what you really would like to do in the future. It does not help to pursue a degree because of its current popularity on the market. It has to be well motivated and come from within you.
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Old 13.12.2009, 15:19
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Re: MBA - is it worth it ?

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10,251 results for mba, CH
  • Universität St. Gallen-Hochschule für Wirtschafts-, Rechts- und Sozialwissenschaften (666)
  • IMD (International Institute for Management Development) - Business Programs (573)
  • INSEAD (535)
  • Eidgenössische Technische Hochschule Zürich (477)
  • Ecole polytechnique fédérale de Lausanne (440)
  • University of Geneva (393)
  • HEC Lausanne - School of Business (309)
  • Universität Zürich (269)
  • Université de Geneve (239)
Without being an MBA specialist I'd imagine that the results for "University of Geneva" should be added to those for "Université de Genève"?
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Old 13.12.2009, 15:30
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Re: MBA - is it worth it ?

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Piece of advice: don't follow people's advice with a "depends" word on it. Go for facts and consensus. Treverus is not going to hire you, so think on who's going to hire you in the future. I would not recommend OU. Not because it's bad but because it doesn't have the brand.
I am not going to hire anybody in the near future. But I gave not just an opinion, but some first hand experience: I make a similar education, got very positive feedback on it during my job search this year and got hired a month ago. Not only because of the MBA, but the entire CV, of course. But I had the impression that the distance program made the difference. Especially when they asked me if it was some program the employer offered and I answered: No I entirely paid it myself.

What experience do you base your points on? Do you have a top school MBA? How did it help you? Where did you see some advantages over the average MBA or a distance course? Not just bullshit around, give us something real.

BTW: OU has a very strong brand in the UK. It stands for second chance education. You would not believe it, but some employers prefer those candidates with a track record of working extra to get something to the high flying twenty-somethings that are going to move on after twelve months on a job. So yes, it does depend on the employer and what he is looking for. Saying it is rubbish and does not have a Harvard brand is simply wrong.
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