I'm considering accepting a job offer to work for a multinational organisation (not a law firm) near Geneva. I am currently working in London as a lawyer in the 2-3 year qualified bracket and I earn approximately £80k. I pay approximately £700pcm in rent and I don't have an extravagant lifestyle.

I have no dependants and will be looking to rent a 1-2 bedroom apartment somewhere between Geneva and Lausanne.

I have two questions:

1) how much money would I need to earn in Vaud to have a similar level of disposable income (compared to my current London salary)?

and (because I realise the two answers may not be the same)

2) how much should I expect to be offered for a job as a lawyer in this area of Switzerland for my level of qualification?

One person has suggested that I should be expecting around 140k but I think I'm likely to be offered nearer to 100k. What is reasonable?

I'd be very grateful for any advice.

Thanks

Further to the query above - all figures quoted are before tax/social contributions etc.

I think the key is what is a multinational organisation? (WWF, UICN) Or a private company? In this area of Switzerland there are a lot of IGOs (international organisations) and NGOs (non-governmental organisations). I don't think you can compare working at one of these organisations with a lawyer working in the Swiss market, they are entirely different, especially in terms of salary and tax. If you have an offer from an organisation expect that the salary to be the same for lawyers as for other professional staff, but there will likely be signifcant tax savings compared to working in the regular swiss market.

There are a lot of other threads on the cost of living here for basic things like housing, food, transport, etc.. so have a look for that info.

I'd do it pro bono if I were you...

100 is low. 140-150 I would say at least.

Thanks Mike, runningdeer - much appreciated.

Mike - that's actually quite concerning. I've decided to negotiate to 128k, but it seems that's way below what might be described as 'competitive'.

To give you some context. I currently work for one of big legal players in London. So I get a great salary, but also crazy expecatations/pressure and all the hours that go with it.

The body I am moving to (without naming names) is probably best described as an administrative and controling body, i.e. an association. Its not a private law practice and its not a commercial corporation. In part then, I am moving for a lifestyle change.

Their current offer of 108k in pounds (£65k) would actually be very good for a comparitive in-house legal role in London. So I suppose the question is, what hike do I need to give it to make it decent in Switzerland? Not being great with maths, I anticipated roughly a 20% increase - any thoughts?

For clarity, by saying "not a comercial operation", I meant to say its not a profit generating body as such although its reveues and commercial activity is high.

It's not my area and hopefully someone who works in law will be along in a bit to give you a better idea but for IT which is my field your 60k or so in London would churn out about 120 here. in my area only "established pro been doing it for a few years" gets 100-120ish, "been round the block, designing, senior role" comes in about 150. Very top end gets beyond this but thats just ballpark stuff.

Do you get taxed though ? check out the status of your org, though I can't believe you havent done this already. If it's an NGO or similar there is no personal taxation applied as I understood it therefor you salary is then artifically increased.

Cost of living is the same as London pretty much. some things a little more, some a little less but we came from london and we found it to be about the same.

Thanks again Mike, really useful

I do get taxed

IANAL; I work in IT. I was working freelance so my comparisons are based on potentials on Jobserve rather than actual previous salary, but ...

Last year I was looking at permie salaries in London around £80K. Instead, because I wanted a change of scenery for a while and also because the job sounded great for my future career, I accepted a role in Basel for about 120K Fr.

After arriving I realise that many things are more expensive here. However, I can still afford everything I need. Also, some things initially appear expensive but when you realise the quality difference in the product you're buying then it works out quite similar. Plus, of course, life here is different. I save money visiting my friends in Stuttgart (train vs flight from London) and the cycling and hiking here will be much better once it stops being freezing cold.

So I wouldn't worry about your salary, especially if you factor in the reduction in stress.

Finally, I checked jobserve again a few days ago and IT rates have come down, so what was paying £80K last year is now around the £70K level. So I'm doing OK

Hmm I personally think that for 2-3 PQ working for an administrative body 140K would be aiming a bit high over here. 108 may well be competitive, depending on extras

remember the pound is really very low currently so I wouldnt convert at 1.6. When I came it was 2.4 and if you look back over 15 years it hovers around 2:1 so I tend still to use this as my conversion rate mentally if not financially. Try not to get dragged into a 'this is what you would get in the UK' type conversation as hopefully it will recover in the next year or two (another discussion entirely) which means if you are still converting you will experience a "drop" in converted salary of 20% (1.6 > 2.0).

I might be a bit out on my salaries based on what adrian is saying - i have been here 3 years now and it looks like things have come down a bit since i moved.

Thanks ullainga

Seems like fairly standard extras package otherwise:

- 250 CHF p/m towards health insurance
- free gym
- some sort of discount travel card
- removal expenses up to 5000 CHF
- relocation agent to help find a house

various other bits and bobs but nothing substantive

Thanks Mike
I agree its best not to think in conversions, unfortunately its all I've got to start out!, hopefully the tenmpatation will disappear once i'm buying everything in CHF though

Sorry to put a damper on your optimistic posts London, but have you considered this career move from any other aspect other than financial? Moving to another country is a challenge, and Switzerland is quite a special place. Do you have any knowledge of French? Working long hours here is considered the norm, thus not much different from your present professional situation. Do you have a partner/children who will also have to adapt to a lifestyle which is quite different from that in the UK? The package your prospective employer is offering is not over-generous, and, indeed, life is very expensive here, especially housing and health-care.

Good luck whatever you decide!

Thanks for your post Merry, all good points

I am going to seek assurances about working hours etc., although nothing in the materials I have read concerning my prospective employer has concerned me on this front

Whatever happens I suspect it will be preferable to my current position where all nighters and office floor sleeping are a painful reality

I have extensive experience living in far more "special places" than Switzerland and so the cultural/language differences don't phase me

Just a quick message of thanks to everyone who chipped in with answers to my question - particularly merrylegs, adrian, mike, runningdeer - you've been a great help. Its no understatement to say that I'd have been completely in the dark without your help. So cheers guys!

Although I'm still in two minds about the offer, at least I have some context now. Decisions, decisions...I reckon I might just go for it!

good luck. dont worry about the learning french bit either as your job is already lined up, we came here without any french and just picked it up along the way. Also it's not much more expensive really, at least not in Vaud we find, when you compare it to living in central london. It worked out about the same for us.

I think that what you should probably look at is the quality of life that you may be getting as well as prospective professional opportunities.

I am almost 100% sure that you will not work nearly as much for this organisation as you are expected to do now. This is probably why you decided to look for another job in the first place.

When it comes to career concerns, you should look at this new job in terms of where it may get you in a few years' time. If it looks like something that can bring valuable experience, then it is definitely worth it. If you are taking it only to get away from the pressure of your current job, then perhaps not.

Some things are impossible to quantify. As much as I like London's big city buzz, Lake Geneva is a paradise on earth. I have friends who have worked as corporate lawyers in the UK for a number of years and they often say that they envy me -- because I live in Switzerland, work normal hours and have a job in a field that stirs my emotional interest. Whether they would easily accept to work for my salary is quite another story. That decision is in the end something that we take based on our core personal values.

Chiming in - perhaps too late.

If you are looking at international organizations - you would be earning tax free; that explains why most salaries in the orgs are low comparatively the free markets -where you have to keep in mind that as much as 25-30% will disappear in taxes and so.

Otherwise, in the commercial world, lawyers are quite nicely paid. I cannot disclose too much - drop me a note in PM if you want - but depending on your seniority level, I'd think a 128k CHF a low low end. Of course, some corporations will be willing to chip in higher salaries, but I would expect an entrance in the 150k. Senior legal with dep. responsabilities in a large company will be well beyond 200K.