hi all,

i am looking for information regarding unemployment support after "quitting" a job.

i've heard from many and read in forums that you will be covered if you are fired from your job, or your contract is terminated / not renewed, which is clear enough that you did not have control over that decision. however, i would like to know what the rules are if you decide to quit your job.

i've been told that if i decide to quit, i will not receive any support for the first 3 months of unemployment. if i am still unemployed after 3 months, i will receive a percentage of my salary for the past 12 months (of course with the required periodic tasks of looking for work, etc). i am wondering if this applies only to swiss citizens (or people who have a swiss partner), or also applies to foreigners like me.

i am a kiwi software developer without any swiss connection, have been here in switzerland for almost 4 years, and still have my job (for just over a year now), which i extremely do not enjoy, and looking for a new job. i do not want to be unemployed, however, the current work situation is not working out well, and this has been discussed with the boss. of course i do not want to be a slacker and intentionally push the boss to fire me, however, i do not see myself working there any longer. at the same time i do not want to just quit without having any financial support after 3 months, so i am trying to figure out whether the "3 month wait" applies to foreigners without any swiss connection after deciding to quit my job without providing a reason.

any feedback is appreciated. thanks heaps!

cheers,
a

For your individual case you should make an appointment at your local unemployment office but the general rule is that if you quit your job you have to forfeit a period of payment (i.e. you are responsible for your current jobless situation).

Oh, if you can't show evidence that you've been actively looking for work, that will count against you too.

As long as you've been paying into the system, Swiss and foreign unemployed people are pretty much treated equally.

Do a search on this forum, it's been covered pretty extensively in the past.

Hi Amadeus,

I was in a similar situation. I too am foreign with no Swiss connection and as long as you are working and paying the normal contributions, then you should qualify for unemployment support.

If you quit your job, then there is a penalty for this. I understood that it is 2 months from the date that you subscribe therefore if you do this the day after you leave your job (or even see if you can do it from the date that you resign) then this will go by quite quickly.

After the subscription then you will be required to attend a meeting on the unemployment system (about 1hour) and provide a list of documentation (including a letter confirming the reason for quitting and proof that you have looked for a job) and they assess this to see if you qualify for the entitlement.

I think the entitlement is 70% to 80% of your salary (dependent on amount).

I would advise enquiring directly with your local office before you quit, to see their requirements and to see how soon you can subscribe.

Hope this helps. I am by no means and expert. Good luck

thanks for the feedback guys, really appreciated.

@Discovery: yeah, i have plenty of proof for job applications, but a letter from my employer "confirming the reason" sounds like i am asking to be fired

as you both suggested (Sandgrounder and Discovery), contacting the local unemployment office is the best way to find out. the problem is finding the time to check in luzern while working in zurich.

thanks for the input.

cheers,
a

Big tip: Start sending out job applications left, right and centre. The unemployment office will take a very positive view.

Also, if your position in your current job is causing so much pain, make sure you document any exchanges you have with your employer and make sure you show some evidence that you have tried to resolve it to the point of the position becoming unbearable.

The RAV doesn't like to see someone just (in their eyes) randomly wander out of a job.

I've been there (2003) and got the t-shirt.

@sandground:

thanks for the tip!

yeah, i've been unemployed once in 2008 (due a big mess by the new employer that canceled my contract before starting the job and immediately after resigning my old job), and RAV supported me during that time.

i am looking for a new job in the LU/ZUG region, and i actually don't want to be unemployed.. it's not a good thing in the IT industry. so i have lots of proof to show that i am constantly applying for jobs, i just need the written confirmation from the employer.

cheers,
a

Beware of the exact type of your work permit. If it is B for the specific employer, loosing the job means you loose the permit, and that equals no unemployment benefit. That is the kind of logic Switzerland used to apply to all B permit holders; now it applies to non-EU citizens.

@yacek: yeah, i'm a B-permit holder and a non-EU citizen. i do not think my permit is associated with the employer, but i am being cautious with this matter. thanks for the hint!

These days I understand that all non-dependent, non-EU permits are associated with an employer, since the employer is required to justify that they could not get an EU/CH person in the first place.

Assuming that to be the case, then if you resign you will loose the permit and be given a number of days in which to leave the country, on the other hand if you are terminated and qualify for unemployment benefit you will be allowed to stay for the remainder of your permit only and if during that time you find a job, the new employer will have to go through the process of getting you a new permit in the normal way.

Good luck with that,

Jim

If you've been unfairly treated, then you may have a legal case. Many employers act outside of the law without realising it. It may be worth spending a couple of hundred francs or so, discussing your case with a solicitor. I know several people who've done this, and have been paid off - including one who got immediate release from job + 6 months pay!

There was also a case in Baselland Transport, where a guy was mobbed (workplace bullying) by his colleagues, and he got 250'000CHF compensation when it went to court.

And this in a country without terribly strong employee protection.

How do you know if your permit is associated with an employer?

Thats the first I have heard of that about quitting your job and loosing your permit. If you have paid the unemployment insurance surely you are entitled to claim it or what would be the point in paying it?

@Jim2007:my first job arranged the paper work for the permit before i came to ch, but when i switched jobs and the new employer terminated the contract before starting i was getting support from RAV. but as you said, i think my permit is linked to my employer, because with every permit renewal i have to pass the form to my employer.

@NotAllThere: no bullying, etc.. none of that, but of course they always want you to work more and more, longer hours, weekends, etc.. but i draw the line when it comes to that. i noticed this with a guy at the company, they like how much he works, but he hates it. and i gave them from the beginning no room for getting smart and starting the bullying. so really there's no need for legal action, i discussed the problems/issues with management, they seem to be stubborn and persistent and dont wanna change their minds.. so time to move on and find another team to work with.

@moula: no idea, i think that's stated on the permit application form when you have to renew it, which i never really look at that well. i've notice that with every permit renewal i have to pass the form to my employer, i guess you don't need to do that if your employer had nothing to do with the permit.

You should stick to your current job until you find alternative employment Make the best effort you can in that job as you should in any job.

I am also disgusted that you are concidering being sacked so that you can claim benefit immediately.

I am actually sick of hearing "I am entitled to" etc etc. which is so common in the Uk and my desire to live in Switzerland.

The last thing Switzerland needs is benefit scroungers. At the end of the day, it is the middle class tax payers that pay for benefit scroungers.

Hi Cashboy, and we're all sick of hearing, blah blah + "UK and my desire to live in Switzerland". Nobody cares.
The UK hasn't got anything to do with this thread.

OP You can also count networking and registering with agencies on your job hunting activities.
If you really decide to quit your job, you could approach your boss or HR and ask if they can sack you or come to an agreement whereby a lenient / sympathetic person at the unemployment office might look better on than a resignation.

@higgybaby: thanks, yeah, i've registered with many agencies, and sending the cv everywhere possible. i even translated the cv from english to german (which i also speak at work) to increase the chances. yes, the idea of ending my employment has been mentioned very briefly with the management (as explained below). i don't want to do that, and things have calmed down a bit at work since our last meeting. but of course if things fire up again, then we can have easy talks. i don't want to go all close-minded and hand a resignation without talks/discussion.

@Cashboy: that's what i've been doing, stick to my current job until i find a better one, so thanks for the advise (fits your username haha).

don't know what industry/field you're in, but no one wants to be unemployed (don't know about others, at least i am) as it's a bad thing, especially in the IT industry.

i don't know how you concluded the misunderstanding and assumption that i am considering being sacked to claim the benefit immediately..
"I am also disgusted that you are concidering being sacked so that you can claim benefit immediately."

i am guessing you read that in the first post...
"of course i do not want to be a slacker and intentionally push the boss to fire me, however, i do not see myself working there any longer."
i underlined the "of course" bit above for a reason point 2 below explains in more detail.

don't know what kind of ideas you hear from other people around you or how you got led to that conclusion, but here's a clarification of my situation/intentions:

1. i want to find a more suitable team/working environment that i actually enjoy going to 5 days a week
2. the boss suggested that they might end my employment as a threat/possibility during a discussion i had with them, which is not something i want, but i should not work even more hours to avoid getting fired (as i am doing today working from home during a public holiday!!). no one wants to be fired from a job! i mean who wants to have something in their professional employment history saying that "i got fired"?
3. when you get charged for a compulsory unemployment tax from your income, i think that logically implies you are "entitled" for claiming the insurance "when needed (sincerely)". it's a taxation/insurance that i did NOT choose, the government imposed it on me. health insurance can be a good analogy here
4. i am not seeking unemployment, unlike some UK expats i personally know. but i mainly want to insure financial support in case i have no success finding work after quitting, which is the worst case scenario.

making the assumption that i want to take the easy way and just chill and get money for nothing is completely wrong. i should probably clarify the picture for you a bit more..

• i have had problems with the way things run in the office, and discussed it with the management in team meetings on multiple occasions. in fact it's so bad, one developer left within 6 months after starting employment (with 1 month notice), and another left after a year and a half. i've been there for just over a year. clearly there's something wrong, where's the problem? 3 developers bad or one management/policy?
• i've been having some shoulder problems, which i (and friends) believe is from sitting at work for too long and mouse use, and considered unpaid leave (not quitting!) from the boss or even working 80%. i was told "Not possible due to resources problems" since people are leaving the company, so that was an indirect diplomatic "No" to my requests. since developers left, this resulted in more workload, but don't know about you mate, for me health is more important than pleasing your boss with health problems and stress.

i don't know about businesses in the UK, but i noticed the problem here in CH some big companies are way too formal/diplomatic and have a lack of trust with employers (not just swiss companies, even foreign ones). again, that's my observation from my experiences.

so, Cashboy, i hope the clarification above is good and clear enough, and let me know if you have any questions best of luck.