Hi!!

My girlfriend has a problem.

Since some months she is suffring "mobbing" at work (confirmed by the doctor who gave her a "unlimited sick leave") by her boss.

Now, they want to fire her but no way do to the leave, they want to negotiate. And my girlfriend doesen't want to make a big hostory of this (she has a lot of friends in the company, the only problem are a couple of big fishes).

By the way, we are planning to leave Switzerland in a couple of months.

So, here are the questions:

-If she is fired, she will get 18 months unemployment benefit here in CH. But if you leave the country you will get this benefit until you find a job?

-If she is fired, she can ask for a one only payment of her unemployment benefit?

-If she is fired, she needs to work after this (for two months)?

-If she leaves voluntary her job due to the sick leave, she will get uneployment benfeits in CH? and if She leaves the country for job search?

We are really confused, so We will welcome all the ips and advices.

Regards!

Sorry to hear about your troubles, J. I've had experience with similar situations here, so I can offer the following:

- negotiate a deal with her employer so that she doesn't have to return to the office and is paid out for her severance period.

- Make sure that her reference letter is positive, "uncoded" and states that she is leaving at the end of the contract period. If her departure date is odd (28 June, for example), future employers may be suspicious.

- CH unemployment benefits can be paid out if abroad for a period of about 3 months, I think. Your situation sounds like you're leaving the country, which changes this considerably. See http://www.treffpunkt-arbeit.ch/ for more info if you're in German CH.

- You can't get a lump-sum unemployment payout, if that's what you're after. It's insurance, not severance pay. From the employer, however, this is possible.

Good luck!

It is difficult to understand your questions - what is

so you want to get all your 18 months unemployment benefits just as a lump sum payment? I guess many would love it, but it doesnt work that way.

Either you are on sick leave or you leave.

If you are receiving unemployment benefits, you can go out and search for a job in another country, this is however limited to some time and requires previous agreement with RAV. Certainly, they will not pay until you find new job unless you do it within the agreed period.

Anyway

Forget unemployment benefit, since you're leaving the country anyway - negotiate a pay off. Three months pay minimum - try for more. Bear in mind that a few years ago a tram driver got 250'000CHF when a case of mobbing went to court. See a lawyer who knows about employement law. There isn't much protection for employees, but there is some. And most bullying bosses are unaware of this.

Unemployment benefits are given to job seekers in Switzerland that are engaged in finding a job (some requirements: minimum 10 applications per month, full availability to meet the RAV counselor any time and to do whatever courses they think you should do, allowed one week holiday every 60 days, etc).
If you decide to go abroad, you may get your unemployment benefits in the foreign country for up to three months max.

Sorry for interrupting. I have one question beyond this subject for dr_gonzo.

I heard before about coded reference letters. What does it look like, how can you know are there any codes etc.

Personally, in my home country I got two reference letters and I never heard about any codes before, maybe they do not use them there, so I am very curious about that.

Thanks

Zeugnis [reference letter] - Q&A thread

RE "code" reference letters:

As far as I know, this is a Swiss phenom but could basically happen anywhere. I'm not an insider on this, maybe an HR person on the list can help, but the language and formatting of the letter can be used to deliver a message "between the lines" so to speak. A little linguistic jujitsu can be used to indicate the employee is less than ideal, a message received by the next potential hiring manager.

An easy one is the employee's date of departure. Here in CH, we nearly always leave a firm at the end of the month after 3 months' notice period. A letter that indicates the employee departed on an odd day will be spotted as unusual by future employers.

It's also best not to mention the mobbing in future, it rarely helps anything and may scare off potential employers. And for the original poster, the doctor is not actually able to verify a case of mobbing. In order to do this, the employee should contact the organization's or city ombudsman. The doc is just confirming the damaged state of the employee, but can't prove causation.

Cheers,
doc

Thank you Doc for reply.

I am sure that my letters do not consist codes, only if my former employers did not use some sentences accidentally that maybe some Swiss employers can find as codes.

Thanks a lot for your answers

I know there is no way to get all the 18 months benefit in just one payment. But as EF said, you can get three months. Not so bad.

The problem is that my girlfiend doesn't want to go to curt regarding the mobbing leave. She just wan't to leave Switzerland. But at least, I want to try to get some money back from our taxes.

If she agrees with the employer to be fired to get the unemployment benefit, she will be able to get a lump sum of 3 months if she tells the RAV that She will leave? (this will be better fopr the RAV because the will avoid to pay 18 months to somebody). Isn't it?

Is there any way to get those 18months telling the RAV you are living in CH but spending most of the time abroad?? Not easy I can imagine.

I will call RAV....

Thanks!

do not know all details, but I think it is not that simple. You cant just tell them - I will leave Switzerland, give me my three months benefits now.
I think you have to actually properly leave the country, go where you want to go, register yourself with the local authorities and unemployment office and than you will get your money, paid actually out through the local 'RAV'. And I believe it works only within EU/EFTA.

Please refrain from defrauding the RAV. The money comes from our taxes .

The ugly situation is the employer's fault. They should compensate.

The best thing to do is invest in a labour lawyer, they know the laws and know what to ask for.

Seems like the poster is confusing the unemployment benefit with the final three months' salary from the job. The terms of leaving the position, including severance, is between the employee and the employer. The unemployment benefit is between the employee and RAV. Tip: you will not receive three months' advance unemployment benefit, ever. Nor will you receive any lump sum unemployment benefit in advance.

In terms of leaving Switzerland and getting back your tax money, this is another complication, as well as unemployment eligibility. I suggest that the two of you consider carefully what you plan to do and consult with a lawyer regarding the appropriate sequence of actions (there are inexpensive walk-in consultation centers in the cities). Be careful not to "abmelde" from your Gemeinde too soon in this process, otherwise you may find yourself in a legal "no-man's land," further complicating the unemployment coverage.

Also, know that depending on your citizenship you are entitle to cash out or roll over your AHV/2.+3. Saule accounts.

One last thing: be careful when mentioning court or legal action. Mobbing is a very subjective area and you are a foreigner. In court, you're toast without clear evidence to back you up. Don't count on Swiss co-workers to come to your aid, either.

you need to be looking for things like "she always tried her best" - indicating she tried but didn't quite make it. "Had a good social relationship with her colleagues" means she was always out chatting.

I am one more person who is a bit confused by your questions.

-If your GF is let go by her employer, it will depend on the wording of her contract, and what she can negotiate in terms of whether she will be able to stop working immediately or must finish up her notice period (usually 3 months).

- As "Dr. Gonzo" wrote, it is best if she can negotiate a deal with her employer so that she doesn't have to return to the office, and is paid out for her severance period (i.e. the 3 months she normally would need to finish after officially receiving her notice).

- Any "lump sum" would be paid by your GF's employer as a bonus or severance package. I think this is the 3 months you were referring to, but you seem to think it comes from the RAV - it doesn't!

- If she gives notice, then usually her unemployment benefit will be cut for three months, as it was HER decision to leave.

- RAV does not pay lump sums, ever. You get a monthly payment as long as you are looking for work. "Chiarina" mentioned some of the requirements:

I am not sure what the situation is if you decide to go abroad, but am fairly sure after a limited amount of googling that you will only receive a very limited unemployment benefit.

I have seen all other members have pretty much covered all aspects, but would like to add something that could be useful.

As per the Swiss law, employers CANNOT fire someone while on sick leave (which is your GF's case), in addition it's not only sickness, it's psychological damage due to mobbing and verified by a doctor, which puts the employer in a very bad position.

Your GF can decide actually what to do on her own terms, my advice is she should join a syndicate of workers where you're locating, submit all the doctors letters + the letters received from the employers asking to fire her, she can end up with a proper resignation, decent letter and a large amount of cash (depending on her position & how much damage have been caused due to mobbing), they can even say that she cannot work for the whole upcoming year due to the bad experience with her current employer.

I guess that's her best shot to get out in a decent way and make sure she can relax for a while not worrying about finding a job or money.

This is couple of links that could be helpful:

Union Syndicale in Geneva: http://www.sit-syndicat.ch/
Union Syndicale Suisse: http://www.sgb.ch

Hope it all goes well for you.

I can only once more urge that you contact a lawyer, especially if you GF is ill, she won't be able to negotiate for her best interests - this takes stamina. If she has not already done so, she needs to have evidence of how she was mobbed. But let the lawyer deal with all negotiations, less emotional and more effective.

in mobbing man, Jesus christ !!!

Bloody kindergarten !!!

Does this happen anywhere else ? I'd never heard of such thing till I came here. Bloody wouldn't want to try it with me I tell ya I would cut sick. Sorry but I must say that I am of the opinion that a lot of Swiss are socially retarded... really....
I feel sorry for you and your girl man. Let me know if ya want me to give 'Fat Tony' a call. For a small fee he can sort it all out....

Sorry to make light of the subject....

A bit naive here, but how does "mobbing" differ from "bullying"?