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  #1  
Old 06.07.2010, 16:03
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E301 from Germany

I was wondering if anyone knew of wher eI can get an E301 form Germany, I worked there in 2008 and the RAV say I need this form to work out my contributions for the Unemployment insurance. I have the form but just do not know where to send it to in Germany, I worked in Hamburg.

If anyone can give me some help I would appreciate it thanks.

Paul.
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  #2  
Old 06.07.2010, 16:10
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Re: E301 from Germany

I am not sure, but I would think it would be Arbeitsamt in Hamburg.

Good luck, finding a new job.

Doc.
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Old 06.07.2010, 17:03
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Re: E301 from Germany

Hi, yes you need to contact the Arbeitsagentur in Hamburg: http://www.arbeitsagentur.de/nn_8022...mburg-Nav.html

They will need an 'Arbeitsbescheinigung' from your old employer(s):

http://www.arbeitsagentur.de/zentral...cheinigung.pdf

Your old emplyer is required by law to give you one of these when you finish your employment.

After you have this (or several ones if you were emplyed by different employers in the last years), you can put your request for the E301 in writing to the Arbeitsagentur.

I just went through this process in Munich and it took about 2 months to process. Maybe if you let them know you need it bad as you became unemployed here, they could be quicker.

Good luck!
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Old 13.04.2012, 14:37
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Re: E301 from Germany

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Hi, yes you need to contact the Arbeitsagentur in Hamburg: http://www.arbeitsagentur.de/nn_8022...mburg-Nav.html

They will need an 'Arbeitsbescheinigung' from your old employer(s):

http://www.arbeitsagentur.de/zentral...cheinigung.pdf

Your old emplyer is required by law to give you one of these when you finish your employment.

After you have this (or several ones if you were emplyed by different employers in the last years), you can put your request for the E301 in writing to the Arbeitsagentur.
I am in similar situation and I need to show my contributions to RAV in the last 2 years. I need to get this employer certificate from my previous employer in Munich where I worked for appx. 6 months. Do you think as a non-EU I can get this ? What is the relevance of E301 ?

Quote:
I just went through this process in Munich and it took about 2 months to process. Maybe if you let them know you need it bad as you became unemployed here, they could be quicker.
Good luck!
Should I contact Arbeitsagentur or my previous employer in Munich to get Arbeitsbescheinigung ?
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Old 13.04.2012, 16:49
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Re: E301 from Germany

If you paid into the unemployment insurance in Germany, your contributions will count no matter what nationality you are. Contact the Arbeitsagentur in Munich first to ask how to obtain the E301 (you will need your German social security number). Then you will probably need to contact your employer to ask for the 'Arbeitsbescheinigung' that you will need to supply to the Arbeitsagentur (the personnel department is probably the place to ask, they can often print out this form electronically). Good luck!
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Old 18.04.2012, 17:04
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Re: E301 from Germany

@mgosia: thanks for the inputs. I also asked EU Zentrale at RAV Bern-Biel, and they explained me procedure same as your version. But they told me that from this year E301 is now being replaced by a new U1, so I should ask for U1 from Arbeitsagentur in Munich

I emailed Arbeitsagentur in Munich and asked about procedure to get U1/E301. They dont understand English very much(I called them on Phone also) and I dont speak Deutsch very well. So communication has been pretty difficult with them so far. On email they gave me following reply:

Hilfreiche Links zu Themenschwerpunkten im BA-Internetauftritt:

E 301 (europ.Arbeitsbescheinigung)
/E303 ("Mitnahme" Alg I-Anspruch ins EU-Ausland)

http://www.arbeitsagentur.de/nn_2563...ales.html#d1.3

So for the time being I contacted my old employer for Arbeitsbescheinigung and also requested them to sort out U1/E301 for me. They are currently processing my request. In a week I should hear some feedback from them.
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Old 09.05.2012, 17:41
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Re: E301 from Germany

Hi,
I just received an email from Arbeits agentur Munich that they needed more information. I called them up to ask what other information they needed. They asked me about my nationality and I told them that I am from a non-EU country. To which they replied that they cannot issue me U1/E301 document as I am a non-EU. .

@mgosia: you said nationality doesn't matter. Can someone please advise or point out appropriate law or legislation which says something about Nationality requirements for obtaining U1/E301 document. Or has anyone had any such experience like that ?


Thanks
JM
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Old 09.05.2012, 18:37
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Re: E301 from Germany

My guess would be that you haven't worked long enough in Germany to be able to take the "Arbeitslosengeld Anspruch" with you to CH. You have to pay into the system for 12 months in the last 2 years before you can claim benefits. And I'm not sure whether you -as non-EU citizen- can sum up short stretches of work in different EU countries to get to these 12 out of 24 months.

But it's complicated and I'd get someone who's fluent in German to talk to the Arbeitsagentur in Munich to avoid misunderstandings and understand properly what the problem is.
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Old 09.05.2012, 18:53
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Re: E301 from Germany

It is possible to club different periods of work in EU. RAV and BECO also told me the same. I had asked EU advisory service about this and they gave me following reply:

Quote:
Thank you for your question.

We can inform you that, regarding the EU regulation on coordination on social security systems 883/2004 (http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/...0110111:EN:PDF), which is also valid for Switzerland, the time you have worked in Germany should be taken into account for the receipt of unemployment benefits. This follows from Article 61 of aforementioned regulation.

How will be the procedure now: You should ask at German labour office for the document U1 (previously E 301) where your insurance time in Germany is stated clearly. Then you provide the Swiss labour office with this document and they should consider it for your unemployment benefits.

However, the Swiss labour office can request the document also directly from German authorities, but then your application will take longer. So we would advise, for an execution as quick as possible, to request the U1 form at German authorities and provide the Swiss authorities with these document.

For the issue of the U1 form we would recommend to contact directly the German labour office:
Bundesagentur für Arbeit
Regensburger Straße 104
90478 Nürnberg
http://www.arbeitsagentur.de/nn_2790...takt-Ziel.html
Phone: 01801 / 555111

We hope this answers your question. If you have a new inquiry, additional questions relating to this case or if you want to provide us with additional information, please feel free to contact us again. Please use the YEA web form (https://ec.europa.eu/citizensrights/?lang=en) in order to do so.
In case of a follow up to a previous inquiry, please provide us with the original case’s reference number.


Kind Regards
Your Europe Advice
BTW I had clearly mentioned to EU advisory service that I am a non-EU national and specifically asked them to tell me if it makes any difference to eligibility requirements to get unemployment benefits.
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Old 09.05.2012, 19:00
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Re: E301 from Germany

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My guess would be that you haven't worked long enough in Germany to be able to take the "Arbeitslosengeld Anspruch" with you to CH.
If thats the problem then even Switzerland should deny me an E301 or U1 in future (in case I get fired in another EU country in future)? Is that what you mean ?
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  #11  
Old 14.05.2012, 16:16
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Re: E301 from Germany

I discussed this issue with a lady in unemployment office in Switzerland and she told me about EU laws 883/2004 and 987/2009 and that it may not be possible for non-EUs to get U1/E301.

As I researched in last few days on these regulations and related laws for non-EUs, I found that this is to do with regulations on EU's Coordination of social security system and whether non-EU or third country nationals come under it.

I found few EU regulations which directly concern this:
Regulations 1408/71 and 574/72 were applicable to EU citizens and continue to be applicable in Norway, Iceland and Liechtenstein. 859/2003 extended the provisions of regulations 1408/71 and 574/72 to nationals of third countries who were not already covered by those provisions solely on the ground of their nationality.

Regulations 1408/71, 574/72 and 859/2003 have now been replaced with 883/2004, 987/2009 and 1231/2010 - also called Modernised Coordination - for all EU countries.

So, at present regulations 883/2004 and 987/2009 are applicable to EU counties except Norway, Iceland and Liechtenstein. 1231/2010 extends provisions of regulations 883/2004 and 987/2009 to nationals of third countries who are not already covered by those provisions solely on the ground of their nationality.

Here is a FAQ which talks about some of these regulations. One notable information in the FAQ is that in Switzerland, Norway, Iceland and Liechtenstein old regulations - 1408/71, 574/72 and 859/2003 - continue to apply. This however has changed for Switzerland from 1st April, 2012 due to bilateral agreement between EU and Switzerland as mentioned on this web page. So it means, in Switzerland the new regulations - 883/2004, 987/2009 and 1231/2010 - apply from 1st April, 2012. The important information on this web page is:

Quote:
Nationals of non-EU countries
Since 1 January 2011, Regulation (EU) No 1231/2010 extends modernised coordination to nationals of non-EU countries (third-country nationals) legally resident in the EU and in a cross-border situation. Their family members and survivors are also covered if they are in the EU. It does not apply to Denmark or the United Kingdom. Regulation (EU) No 1231/2010 will be a source of rights, for example, in the case of a third-country national who has moved from one EU country to another for work, but whose children have stayed in the previous EU country. Non-EU nationals can continue to benefit from the previous EU coordination rules in cases concerning the United Kingdom as Regulation (EC) No 859/2003 (which extended Regulation (EEC) No 1408/71 to nationals of non-EU countries) continues to apply there.

I read this article, which says the following in the end(see the text in bold):

Quote:
Background
The EU’s provisions on the coordination of social security systems have existed for 50 years, and were updated and extended many times. A new legislative package, ‘Modernisation and coordination’, has been in force since 1 May 2010 (Regulation 883/2004 and Implementing Regulation 987/2009). As per Regulation 1231/2010, the EU rules of coordination in terms of social security also apply to nationals of countries that are not part of the EU but who are residing legally in the EU and are in a cross-borders situation. Moreover, some agreements between the EU and third countries contain provisions on cooperation in the field of social security.
As I googled further to get interpretation of these laws, I found information(see this Article1) in various places about social security regulations for non-EU's residing in a member state:
Quote:
Until 1 June 2003, the EU coordination regulations applied to EU nationals, but only to limited categories of nationals of third [/b]countries, such as members of the family of EU nationals, stateless persons and refugees. There was no instrument of social security coordination that dealt with the position of all third country nationals in cross-border situations. However, on 1st June 2003 a new Regulation, Regulation (EC) No. 859/2003 entered into force and thereby created a “bridge” that brought nationals from third countries within the scope of the coordination rules. This Regulation was replaced with effect from 1st January 2010 with a new Regulation 1231/10. To be covered by this regulation two important conditions have to be fulfilled: (1) being legally resident in a Member State; and (2) being in "a situation which is not confined in all respects within a single Member State".

In practice, this means that legally resident nationals from third countries now have the same rights as EU nationals as regards social security/healthcare in EU cross-border situations. A key aspect this is that the equal treatment principle is extended in all matters within the material scope of the EU social security regulations to third country nationals. This means that, where an EU state permits its own nationals as a question of national law to export their pensions to a third country, then the national from a third country within the scope of the coordination rules must also be entitled to export his pension to the third country under the same conditions as nationals. In this way the EU coordination rules have started to impact on the obligation of EU countries to pay pensions to persons who reside in the territory of a third country.
Some other articles which talk the same are:
Now only issue is whether issue of U1/E301 document comes under these laws and if indeed I am eligible under 1231/2010 to get this document, how should I communicate this to Arbeitsagentur in Munich. I have already written to EU advisory service regarding this asking for further clarification. I would really appreciate feedback or advice from folks on the forum
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Old 14.05.2012, 16:52
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Re: E301 from Germany

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Now only issue is whether issue of U1/E301 document comes under these laws and if indeed I am eligible under 1231/2010 to get this document, how should I communicate this to Arbeitsagentur in Munich. I have already written to EU advisory service regarding this asking for further clarification. I would really appreciate feedback or advice from folks on the forum
In the email you received it says that the Bern office can request this for you. I would the the Bern office that Germany is refusing to give you the document you need and that they should request it directly.

Good luck.
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Old 14.05.2012, 17:43
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Re: E301 from Germany

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In the email you received it says that the Bern office can request this for you. I would the the Bern office that Germany is refusing to give you the document you need and that they should request it directly.

Good luck.
Which email you mean - received from RAV or Arbeitsagentur Munchen ? Can you copy-paste the text of this email if you have it with you? I received just a letter from RAV saying that they are waiting for E301 formular.
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Old 14.05.2012, 17:58
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Re: E301 from Germany

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Which email you mean - received from RAV or Arbeitsagentur Munchen ? Can you copy-paste the text of this email if you have it with you? I received just a letter from RAV saying that they are waiting for E301 formular.
You posted it above. Look at your post #9.

"However, the Swiss labour office can request the document also directly from German authorities, but then your application will take longer. So we would advise, for an execution as quick as possible, to request the U1 form at German authorities and provide the Swiss authorities with these document. "
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Old 14.05.2012, 19:57
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Re: E301 from Germany

Hi, sorry I was writing about our experience with the E301 between Germany & Switzerland, "forgetting" that we are EU-nationals. Indeed the EU pages: http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens...s/index_en.htm
mention "rights to benefits as an EU national living and/or working in an EU country".
On the other hand it says: "The forms in this page are valid if you legally live in an EU country, irrespective of your nationality"???
It seems to me unfair that transferring contributions between EU countries is NOT possible for non-EU employees... in my experience many civil servants are confused about the EU rules, so it might pay off to talk to different people or try and get the BERN office to handle the problem...
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Old 15.05.2012, 08:49
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Re: E301 from Germany

@miniMia: Oh yes, that was what EU advisory service told me. I would ask about it at RAV.

@mgosia: You are quite right I think. When I last talked to agent at Arbeitsmat in Munich, firstly she said that for non-EUs U1/E301 cannot be issued. I asked if it was some law or rule, she didnt had any answer. And then I argued that I had advise from EU advisory service who told me that I can get U1 from Germany despite being non-EU. And then she said, just show us the advise and then we will see.

BTW, I think by the statement: 'The forms in this page are valid if you legally live in an EU country, irrespective of your nationality" it probably means irrespective of nationality of EU country where you come from. But I may be wrong, and anyone else will read it in same way.

When as a non-EU, the Swiss labour office considers me eligible for unemployment benefits, then I should also be eligible for getting U1/E301 document as it is part of the procedure. That's the simple logic I can think about.

Thanks so much for feedback guys.
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Old 16.05.2012, 11:56
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Re: E301 from Germany

Good news. EU advisory service has told me that German office cannot deny non-EU living in Switzerland or Europe the U1/E301 document. Here is an excerpt:

Quote:
In your first inquiry we told you already that you have the right to receive the U1 document according to Article 16 of EU regulation 883/2004 on coordination of social security systems (http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/...0110111:EN:PDF).
This regulation applies also to you as Non-EU country national according to “REGULATION (EU) No 1231/2010 OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL of 24 November 2010 extending Regulation (EC) No 883/2004 and Regulation (EC) No 987/2009 to nationals of third countries who are not already covered by these Regulations solely on the ground of their nationality”. You can find this legal text here: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/...01:0003:EN:PDF.

This means that every person living in the EU is subject to regulation 883/2004 even if they do not have the European Citizenship. So the German labour office cannot refuse your request on the ground of your nationality. However, they could refuse it on the fact that you are not living in the EU, but in Switzerland at the moment. Nevertheless, we would suggest you to try it again, referring to the above mentioned regulation.

Furthermore we called at German labour office (01801 / 555111) and were told that since 01.04.12 it is possible to transfer employment periods from any EU country to Switzerland, so it should be no problem for you to get it, even when living in Switzerland. Please refer also to this date in case you have more difficulties.


We hope this answers your question. If you have a new inquiry, additional questions relating to this case or if you want to provide us with additional information, please feel free to contact us again. Please use the YEA web form (https://ec.europa.eu/citizensrights/?lang=en) in order to do so.
In case of a follow up to a previous inquiry, please provide us with the original case’s reference number.
Now only task it now to tell this to labour office in Munich. My guess is my boss or HR people in my last employer in Munich would be the right persons to talk to them.
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Old 02.06.2012, 10:05
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Re: E301 from Germany

So finally after a lot of conversations with Arbeitsmat in Munich/Stuttgart/Nurenburg, me and EU advisory service has been told that my social benefits cannot be transferred from Germany to Switzerland, not because I am non-EU but because I am not living in EU. Had I been unemployed in Austria then it would have been possible to transfer social benefits from Germany to Austria.

EU advisory service has told me that I must contact RAV as there are other ways to transfer social security benefits.

So what this means is that any person who is in a situation like me irrespective of the nationality, cannot transfer social benefits from Germany to Switzerland. I think this would hold true for Swiss/EU/non-EU people also.

But on a closing note, good news is Arbeitlosenkasse started paying me money despite unable to get this E301 form. Probably when I provided them with arbeitsbescheinigung, salary slips, social security statements from Germany, they are convinced that I worked in Munich.
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Old 24.07.2012, 11:25
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Re: E301 from Germany

Sorry about that. When I re-read the info on unemployment payments from the RAV we obtained when my husband was getting payments, it says (page 10 of the following document: http://www.treffpunkt-arbeit.ch/date..._200_d_web.pdf ):

Als Beitragszeit zählen unter anderem auch: In einem EU /EFTA-Staat erworbene Beitragszeiten als EU /EFTA-Staatsangehörige oder -angehöriger werden Ihnen angerechnet, wenn Sie nach der Einreise in die Schweiz eine beitragspflichtige Beschäftigung ausgeübt haben.

As contribution periods are counted, amongst others: contributions in an EU/EFTA state, contributed being an EU/EFTA citizen, will be accounted for if after your entry to Switzerland you held a position in Switzerland for which you have contributed into the system.

This document (that took me a while to find online) specifically says this is the case for EU/EFTA citizens - so they do seem to make a difference if you are EU/EFTA or non-EU/EFTA. Sorry for the wrong info - hopefully the trouble you went through getting a 'no' will help others in the future.
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