Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Family matters/health
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #61  
Old 24.10.2015, 23:38
ZuriRollt's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Zürich
Posts: 1,796
Groaned at 41 Times in 31 Posts
Thanked 2,066 Times in 928 Posts
ZuriRollt has a reputation beyond reputeZuriRollt has a reputation beyond reputeZuriRollt has a reputation beyond reputeZuriRollt has a reputation beyond reputeZuriRollt has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Anxiety meds?

Quote:
View Post
Of course I never said that reactive depression was not linked/cannot be linked to true depression
Hi Odile, I'm not sure what you mean by "true"? There are so many types of depression - some reactive, but the most debilitating ones are not - many are simply inherited.
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old 24.10.2015, 23:49
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Neuchatel
Posts: 19,400
Groaned at 369 Times in 276 Posts
Thanked 22,400 Times in 10,081 Posts
Odile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Anxiety meds?

I am NO specialist however what I meant by 'true' is what is normally called 'clinical'. But it seems clear, as I said in my original post, that there are so many degrees in between- some that do require treatment, some not- but just time and patience to go through the process, as in grieving for a loved one (which can trigger 'true' depression of course- but may not). Hence the need for specialist help.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Odile for this useful post:
  #63  
Old 24.10.2015, 23:56
ZuriRollt's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Zürich
Posts: 1,796
Groaned at 41 Times in 31 Posts
Thanked 2,066 Times in 928 Posts
ZuriRollt has a reputation beyond reputeZuriRollt has a reputation beyond reputeZuriRollt has a reputation beyond reputeZuriRollt has a reputation beyond reputeZuriRollt has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Anxiety meds?

Quote:
View Post
I am NO specialist however what I meant by 'true' is what is normally called 'clinical'. But it seems clear, as I said in my original post, that there are so many degrees in between- some that do require treatment, some not- but just time and patience to go through the process, as in grieving for a loved one (which can trigger 'true' depression of course- but may not). Hence the need for specialist help.
Thanks, a reactive depression can also mean a 'clinical' one.
Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old 25.10.2015, 00:04
edot's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Winterthur
Posts: 4,861
Groaned at 21 Times in 20 Posts
Thanked 6,206 Times in 2,801 Posts
edot has a reputation beyond reputeedot has a reputation beyond reputeedot has a reputation beyond reputeedot has a reputation beyond reputeedot has a reputation beyond reputeedot has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Anxiety meds?

Quote:
View Post
Hey edot, was just wondering what you meant? I know that if can be pretty awful/impossible to find a competent psychiatrist in Zürich

Any prolonged period requires assessment. I suppose I know too many people who have experienced periods of anxiety and depression precipitated perhaps by a stressful life event. The anxiety/depression lingers but the person is reluctant to seek help because there's a "reason" for it.

It happens in people with chronic disease, women in menopause, and expatriates to name a few.

Has nothing to do with the availability of psychiatric help in Zurich. And i'm sorry - I certainly didn't mean to create a p*ssing match, but questioning the veracity of someone's feelings leads to people not seeking treatment when they could benefit from it.
__________________
"Pictures of perfection, as you know, make me sick and wicked" ---- Jane Austen
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old 25.10.2015, 00:09
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Neuchatel
Posts: 19,400
Groaned at 369 Times in 276 Posts
Thanked 22,400 Times in 10,081 Posts
Odile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Anxiety meds?

Quote:
View Post
... but questioning the veracity of someone's feelings leads to people not seeking treatment when they could benefit from it.
has anyone here done that?

However, I'd be more concerned about the % of doctors who will automatically put someone who is depressed, after a major even, grieving, etc- automatically on anti-depressants- rather than listening and taking time to properly assess the situation over a period of time, and try other ways of helping - which is too often the case.

Drug treatment can lead to long term problems and addiction- which can also cause many problems- so there is a fine balance which can be very difficult and takes time, patience and lots of listening- instead of reaching for the prescription pad and 'getting rid' of the issues, and the patient.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Odile for this useful post:
  #66  
Old 25.10.2015, 00:48
edot's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Winterthur
Posts: 4,861
Groaned at 21 Times in 20 Posts
Thanked 6,206 Times in 2,801 Posts
edot has a reputation beyond reputeedot has a reputation beyond reputeedot has a reputation beyond reputeedot has a reputation beyond reputeedot has a reputation beyond reputeedot has a reputation beyond repute
Anxiety meds?

Quote:
View Post
I think I made it quite clear in my posts, that I had the most amazing support from an amazing Zürich based psychiatrist during an incredibly difficult period of my life. And I find your comments highly offensive.

My comment wasn't even directed at you. Sorry you were offended. I'm not a clinician, but I've done a fair amount of research on sources of mental illness stigma and one of the big sources of stigma is questioning whether a mental state is "true" versus "reactive". I'm glad you've had effective treatment - it's what everyone should have access to.


But whatever. Have a good night.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank edot for this useful post:
  #67  
Old 25.10.2015, 00:54
BLP's Avatar
BLP BLP is offline
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Vaud
Posts: 676
Groaned at 16 Times in 11 Posts
Thanked 269 Times in 176 Posts
BLP is considered knowledgeableBLP is considered knowledgeableBLP is considered knowledgeable
Re: Anxiety meds?

Quote:
View Post

Drug treatment can lead to long term problems and addiction- which can also cause many problems- so there is a fine balance which can be very difficult and takes time, patience and lots of listening- instead of reaching for the prescription pad and 'getting rid' of the issues, and the patient.
People are very big on pushing SSRI's these days too. I've heard people suggest them for a long host of issues that although suck, pills don't fix! But I also notice more friends drink daily too than it used to be.

SSRI's and other meds have side effects and so many think they are more magical then they really are. For some yes but for many they just aren't the answer. Oh and medical causes for depression and anxiety are just hardly ever looked at.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank BLP for this useful post:
  #68  
Old 25.10.2015, 01:04
edot's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Winterthur
Posts: 4,861
Groaned at 21 Times in 20 Posts
Thanked 6,206 Times in 2,801 Posts
edot has a reputation beyond reputeedot has a reputation beyond reputeedot has a reputation beyond reputeedot has a reputation beyond reputeedot has a reputation beyond reputeedot has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Anxiety meds?

Quote:
View Post
People are very big on pushing SSRI's these days too. I've heard people suggest them for a long host of issues that although suck, pills don't fix! But I also notice more friends drink daily too than it used to be.

SSRI's and other meds have side effects and so many think they are more magical then they really are. For some yes but for many they just aren't the answer. Oh and medical causes for depression and anxiety are just hardly ever looked at.
Started in the 1990's with prozac. Prozac was designed to be a one size fits all drug prescribed by primary care docs, because insurers in the US would far rather pay for a pill than therapy. Turned out though that most people were put on 20 mg when they would have been better off on a lower dose or another med. And many people don't want to or can't pay for therapy when insurance won't. if they can find the right therapy or treatment for them, that is.
Reply With Quote
  #69  
Old 25.10.2015, 01:06
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Neuchatel
Posts: 19,400
Groaned at 369 Times in 276 Posts
Thanked 22,400 Times in 10,081 Posts
Odile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Anxiety meds?

Quote:
View Post
My comment wasn't even directed at you.

But whatever.
what a pity, offenisve sadly. How does this help us forwards in a discussion on such an important issue?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Odile for this useful post:
  #70  
Old 25.10.2015, 01:10
edot's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Winterthur
Posts: 4,861
Groaned at 21 Times in 20 Posts
Thanked 6,206 Times in 2,801 Posts
edot has a reputation beyond reputeedot has a reputation beyond reputeedot has a reputation beyond reputeedot has a reputation beyond reputeedot has a reputation beyond reputeedot has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Anxiety meds?

Quote:
View Post
what a pity, offenisve sadly. How does this help us forwards in a discussion on such an important issue?
You're the one questioning whether a depression is true versus reactive. It doesn't matter. My comment was directed at you. Let's move on.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank edot for this useful post:
  #71  
Old 25.10.2015, 01:12
BLP's Avatar
BLP BLP is offline
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Vaud
Posts: 676
Groaned at 16 Times in 11 Posts
Thanked 269 Times in 176 Posts
BLP is considered knowledgeableBLP is considered knowledgeableBLP is considered knowledgeable
Re: Anxiety meds?

Quote:
View Post
Started in the 1990's with prozac. Prozac was designed to be a one size fits all drug prescribed by primary care docs, because insurers in the US would far rather pay for a pill than therapy. Turned out though that most people were put on 20 mg when they would have been better off on a lower dose or another med. And many people don't want to or can't pay for therapy when insurance won't. if they can find the right therapy or treatment for them, that is.
paracetamol was promoted as the be all fix for everything and now they are figuring it wasnt a clever idea!

Prozac has a lot of side effects! The tests needed to see if an SSRI really would improve quality of life are complicated, take time and are not easy to interrupt, so why bother ay?

Gabapentin (is that the spelling) is the "new prozac" also full of side effects, but hey pushing meds is the way to go right?

I'm not a huge believer in therapy I must admit, but hormone/chemical imbalances + food intolerances I do think are the sole contributor to non reaction depression.
Reply With Quote
  #72  
Old 25.10.2015, 01:53
ZuriRollt's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Zürich
Posts: 1,796
Groaned at 41 Times in 31 Posts
Thanked 2,066 Times in 928 Posts
ZuriRollt has a reputation beyond reputeZuriRollt has a reputation beyond reputeZuriRollt has a reputation beyond reputeZuriRollt has a reputation beyond reputeZuriRollt has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Anxiety meds?

Quote:
View Post
effective treatment - it's what everyone should have access to.
Then you'll be aware how difficult it is to find this - especially with English as Mother tongue in Switzerland.
Reply With Quote
  #73  
Old 25.10.2015, 02:14
Dougal's Breakfast's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: GL
Posts: 15,405
Groaned at 969 Times in 737 Posts
Thanked 38,710 Times in 12,114 Posts
Dougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond reputeDougal's Breakfast has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Anxiety meds?

Quote:
View Post
Then you'll be aware how difficult it is to find this - especially with English as Mother tongue in Switzerland.
How is that relevant to anything Edot has written?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Dougal's Breakfast for this useful post:
This user groans at Dougal's Breakfast for this post:
  #74  
Old 25.10.2015, 02:23
edot's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Winterthur
Posts: 4,861
Groaned at 21 Times in 20 Posts
Thanked 6,206 Times in 2,801 Posts
edot has a reputation beyond reputeedot has a reputation beyond reputeedot has a reputation beyond reputeedot has a reputation beyond reputeedot has a reputation beyond reputeedot has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Anxiety meds?

Quote:
View Post
Then you'll be aware how difficult it is to find this - especially with English as Mother tongue in Switzerland.
The truth is that one doesn't need English mother tongue. Just a good command of English, and most physicians trained in the last 30 years have a good command of English. Most of the research literature is written in English. There are definitely therapists in Switzerland with a sufficent command of English.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank edot for this useful post:
  #75  
Old 25.10.2015, 02:33
Tasebo's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Wald, Zurich/Stockholm
Posts: 1,194
Groaned at 4 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 1,263 Times in 645 Posts
Tasebo has a reputation beyond reputeTasebo has a reputation beyond reputeTasebo has a reputation beyond reputeTasebo has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Anxiety meds?

For the purpose of clarification as I see the discussion has rambled a bit, my daughter is not receiving any SSRI medication. The psychiatrist who made the PTSD diagnosis has that area has field of expertise, and aside from whatever credentials he may have has left me with no doubts we are in good hands. I have no doubts the darkest stage was clinical depression. I have experienced plenty of very low periods in my own life following deaths of best friend, my mother and my own near death and dehabilitation following myoexodemic coma (not simultaneously thank goodness) but none if these compared to what I saw my daughter go through for about 3-4 weeks when she, an ordinarily very sensual and visual person, had no reactions to anything in her surroundings. The approach to medication particularly for children and teenagers is very cautious, particularly in consideration of the fact that even non-habit-forming medications can become habit-forming through the very act of taking them over an extended period of time.

She has received medication as needed to calm anxiety when it mounts to level of triggering actual attacks with physical symptoms of shaking and loss of breath, but the longterm approach is seen as CBT, EMDR and general psychotherapy. The possibility of Buspirone was brought up as an alternative as it is taken regularly and removes the "angst" of her wondering whether she needs something. To some of us this may seem rather trivial, but this is a 16yr old who in some ways overthinks every detail, for better and worse.
Reply With Quote
The following 6 users would like to thank Tasebo for this useful post:
  #76  
Old 25.10.2015, 02:57
ZuriRollt's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Zürich
Posts: 1,796
Groaned at 41 Times in 31 Posts
Thanked 2,066 Times in 928 Posts
ZuriRollt has a reputation beyond reputeZuriRollt has a reputation beyond reputeZuriRollt has a reputation beyond reputeZuriRollt has a reputation beyond reputeZuriRollt has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Anxiety meds?

Quote:
View Post
The truth is that one doesn't need English mother tongue. Just a good command of English, and most physicians trained in the last 30 years have a good command of English. Most of the research literature is written in English. There are definitely therapists in Switzerland with a sufficent command of English.
Yes, agree. But it is very difficult to find the right therapist for your own personal circumstances, without having the additional complication of finding someone you can share your innermost feelings with (that you've probably never discussed with anyone else in your life) within a 50 minute session, and needing to get feedback and support within that session.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank ZuriRollt for this useful post:
  #77  
Old 25.10.2015, 08:57
edot's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Winterthur
Posts: 4,861
Groaned at 21 Times in 20 Posts
Thanked 6,206 Times in 2,801 Posts
edot has a reputation beyond reputeedot has a reputation beyond reputeedot has a reputation beyond reputeedot has a reputation beyond reputeedot has a reputation beyond reputeedot has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Anxiety meds?

A more elegant representation of what I was trying to say last night, found on http://robot-hugs.com and quoted widely
Attached Thumbnails
anxiety-meds-image.jpg  
Reply With Quote
The following 7 users would like to thank edot for this useful post:
  #78  
Old 25.10.2015, 18:19
ZuriRollt's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Zürich
Posts: 1,796
Groaned at 41 Times in 31 Posts
Thanked 2,066 Times in 928 Posts
ZuriRollt has a reputation beyond reputeZuriRollt has a reputation beyond reputeZuriRollt has a reputation beyond reputeZuriRollt has a reputation beyond reputeZuriRollt has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Anxiety meds?

Quote:
View Post
How is that relevant to anything Edot has written?
I think that, particularly in such important and sensitive topics, you should read the thread before commenting, so that you are properly informed, thank you.

I personally found your various PMs (as well as the additional down-reps) highly insensitive and inappropriate last night (early this morning).
Reply With Quote
  #79  
Old 25.10.2015, 18:43
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Neuchatel
Posts: 19,400
Groaned at 369 Times in 276 Posts
Thanked 22,400 Times in 10,081 Posts
Odile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Anxiety meds?

Quote:
View Post
A more elegant representation of what I was trying to say last night, found on http://robot-hugs.com and quoted widely
It is clear that many doctors prescribe anti-depressants for fear of being sued if the person commits suicide if they don't. But it also goes the other way- many people prescribed anti-depressants get worse rather than better, and develop suicidal and violent tendencies. My favourtie ever student in the UK killed herself after being prescribed anti-depressants aged 17 when panicking before A'Levels. Which is why, again, an internet forum is not the place to make such a difficult decision- and even the experts often don't get it 'right'.

But we in Switzerland and the USA even worse- have really worrying prescribing habits. Over the past two decades, the use of antidepressants has skyrocketed. One in 10 Americans now takes an antidepressant medication; among women in their 40s and 50s, the figure is one in four.

Which is in itself absolute madness. In the UK peope suffering from depression can wait for months before they can be seen by a specialist- despite the gvt guidelines that they should be seen within a month of request.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Odile for this useful post:
  #80  
Old 25.10.2015, 18:51
ZuriRollt's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Zürich
Posts: 1,796
Groaned at 41 Times in 31 Posts
Thanked 2,066 Times in 928 Posts
ZuriRollt has a reputation beyond reputeZuriRollt has a reputation beyond reputeZuriRollt has a reputation beyond reputeZuriRollt has a reputation beyond reputeZuriRollt has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Anxiety meds?

Quote:
View Post
I've done a fair amount of research on sources of mental illness stigma and one of the big sources of stigma is questioning whether a mental state is "true" versus "reactive"
But whatever. Have a good night.
Many thanks, understand now - I experienced the "stigma" aspect for the first time last night (got some nasty PMs). Luckily, my experience was no longer actual.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank ZuriRollt for this useful post:
Reply

Tags
anxiety




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
List of all treatments and meds covered under basic insurance kodokan Insurance 9 19.12.2010 12:49
Cats and meds... Peg A Pet corner 15 18.01.2010 13:53
Insurer refuses to pay for prescribed meds axman Insurance 21 02.01.2009 14:19
What meds to keep on hand? Mrs. Doolittle Pet corner 12 29.12.2008 01:48


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 10:11.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0