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Old 28.03.2011, 18:11
yasmina
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Re: Helicopter parenting: are you over protective?

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My 2 year old daughter has now a scratched nose because she fell off the stairs last week but I doubt if she has learned from it because she is always very careful.

I think the theory works once children are in the age that they have sufficient physical coordination skills
But what doesn't kill you makes you stronger right.... if she keeps falling over she learns it's not the end of the world, she picks herself, gets more confidence, and on she goes. A scratch on the nose is better than never falling. My little one is just getting on her feet... I let her go for it, she's had a few tumbles... and she'll have many more. I'm not neglectful, I'm always around, just not always standing right behind her. I trust that she will make her own experiences. There is no right or wrong way of parenting anyway, different strokes for different folks.
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Old 28.03.2011, 18:11
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Re: Helicopter parenting: are you over protective?

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A good test is when your child takes a slurp of his drink then offers the bottle around all his little mates - Swiss parents don't bat an eye and maybe offer a cracker in return, expat parents recoil in horror, nervously fidgeting with their handbag-sized bottles of alcohol hand rub.
This apply of clothes too.

I see so many kids walking around wearing snowman outfit when it is 15-20 degrees outside!

No wonder why people are always sick!
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Old 28.03.2011, 18:23
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Re: Helicopter parenting: are you over protective?

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I have been working with children for about 13 years.

In my opinion, children are not encouraged to be independent. Not to think for themselves. We as parents are all too ready to provide the answer. We tell our children to be responsibsle but actually this means to be responsible the way I as a parent think you should be responsible. In other words do your duty. Some day when your child asks you a question, instead of giving them the answer, ask them what they think the answer is. encourage them to think for themselves.

Letting go is one of the hardest things we can do in life. When we let go of our child the message is I trust you. This encourages independence and self confidence. The biggest gift you can give your child is independence.

Many adults today are not independent. We are dependent, on doctors, therapists, and coaches and on our politicial, religious and corporate leaders.

Think about what you want for yourself and you will be surp^rised that much of what you want is based upon what you have been lead to believe what you want. It is all about what you should or need.
I agree with you...(just don't push biofeedback here, please ). My parents let me leave the nest at 16 to travel the world on my own, to be independent, feed myself. I am not sure what I will do if my daughter asks me the same.

I have always been a fan of attachment parenting, knowing if a wee kiddo saturates with love, they will be a lot more independent later on, since security feeds courage and experiments. Clingy kids are not always the kids that have been coddled but those who feel some kind of deficit.

I often wonder how much of this wish for autonomy comes out of convenience (be independent now and immediately, so I can have my life back), and how much it is really a theory well thought through with long term effect. You push your child unkindly away too early, and you ruin him for life. It is so easily interpreted by kids who have no psy training nor experience (just desire to be close) as neglect. Who cares for society and norms, for judgment. I care how my own child interprets my attitude. Not how mollycoddling I might seem to peers....

Anyways. All kids and different. All parent/child dynamics are different. There is no ultimate theory to fit all. I am careful with theories...I do like some like "GOYB" or what I mentioned earlier.

And, it is sad, but I gota relocate to the German part. I wish we actually had local parents who would offer a drink, toys, hell, an invite...for that matter. It is pretty much the expat parents who share a lot. Might be a different local culture here. I don't want to be the expat mom waiting for my child in front of the school with a bag of candy for the local kids so they play with my foreign child. The local parents we know personally are great, but there is no generosity with random people we meet, which is sad. So, I wouldn't mock expat mom for disinfectant bottles, since they are the ones being very generous to people they do not even know.
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Old 28.03.2011, 18:38
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Re: Helicopter parenting: are you over protective?

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I agree with you...(just don't push biofeedback here, please ). My parents let me leave the nest at 16 to travel the world on my own, to be independent, feed myself. I am not sure what I will do if my daughter asks me the same.

I have always been a fan of attachment parenting, knowing if a wee kiddo saturates with love, they will be a lot more independent later on, since security feed courage and experiments. Clingy kids are not always the kids that have been coddled but those who feel some kind of deficit.

I often wonder how much of this wish for autonomy comes out of convenience (be independent now and immediately, so I can have my life back), and how much it is really a theory well thought through with long term effect. You push your child unkindly away too early, and you ruin him for life. It is so easily interpreted by kids who have no psy training nor experience (just desire to be close) as neglect. Who cares for society and norms, for judgment. I care how my own child interprets my attitude. Not how mollycoddling I might seem to peers....

Anyways. All kids and different. All parent/child dynamics are different. There is no ultimate theory to fit all. I am careful with theories...I do like some like "GOYB" or what I mentioned earlier.

And, it is sad, but I gota relocate to the German part. I wish we actually had local parents who would offer a drink, toys, hell, an invite...for that matter. It is pretty much the expat parents who share a lot. Might be a different local culture here. I don't want to be the expat mom waiting for my child in front of the school with a bag of candy for the local kids so they play with my foreign child. The local parents we know personally are great, but there is no generosity with random people we meet, which is sad. So, I wouldn't mock expat mom for desinfectant bottles, since they are the ones being very generous to people they do not even know.
I don't push biofeedback I just thinks it the cats ... ! What I do is encourage people to self regulate and learn to depend on themselevs. I don't fix people because I don't people are broken, they just need to learn some skills.

It is not about pushing children away. It is about encouraging them to do it themselevs. My child knows that if they encounter a problem they can not solve or are in some trouble then they can come to me for help.

To "Let Go" does not mean to stop caring; it means I can‘t do it for
someone else.


To "Let Go" is not to cut myself off;
it‘s the realization I can‘t control another.

To"Let Go" is not to enable, but to allow learning from natural
consequences.


To "Let Go" is to admit powerlessness; which means the outcome is not in
my hands
.


To "Let Go" is not to try to change or blame
another; it‘s to make the most of‘
myself.

To"Let Go" is not to care for
but to care about.


To "Let Go" is not to fix but to
be supportive.


To"Let Go" is not to judge but to allow another to be a human being.

To "Let Go" is not to be in the middle arranging
all the outcomes but to allow others to affect their destinies


To "Let Go" is not to be protective, it‘s to permit another to face
reality.


To"Let Go" is not to deny, but to accept.

To"Let Go" is not to nag, scold, or argue, but
instead to search out my own

shortcomings and correct them.


To "Let Go" is not to adjust everything to my
desires but to take each day as it
comes, and cherish myself in it.


To "Let Go" is not to criticize and regulate
anybody but to try to become what I dream I can be.


To"Let Go" is not to regret the past but to grow and live for the future.

To "Let Go" is to
fear less and love more.



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Old 28.03.2011, 19:33
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Re: Helicopter parenting: are you over protective?

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Which brings to mind another thought:

At which stage are we saying-

"Yes, I trust you, you are strong/clever/mature enough to do it yourself", or

"No, let me do it for you, you cant (yet)"
If it involves constantly wiping down the toilet seat and immediate floor area, I'm willing to opt for the "you're not old enough to try that yourself, yet; let's reassess when you are 16..."
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Old 28.03.2011, 19:38
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Re: Helicopter parenting: are you over protective?

I believe all parents do the best they can, with the skills they have. Let`s be less critical and more empathetic. Parenting is hard work. There is no manual, no ten-step program. We parent the way we were parented. Sometimes we educate ourselves on other techniques, sometimes we don`t. We all want the best for our children, thats what we have in common. Judging others does little in the way of supporting the development of a future human race. If you have good advice to share, then for god sakes... share it already.
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Old 28.03.2011, 19:49
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Re: Helicopter parenting: are you over protective?

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I believe all parents do the best they can, with the skills they have. Let`s be less critical and more empathetic. Parenting is hard work. There is no manual, no ten-step program. We parent the way we were parented. Sometimes we educate ourselves on other techniques, sometimes we don`t. We all want the best for our children, thats what we have in common. Judging others does little in the way of supporting the development of a future human race. If you have good advice to share, then for god sakes... share it already.
Best advice is to keep a sense of humour. Being a parent you need it or you would be carted off to the Home For The Bewildered shortly after they deliver the placenta.

As for being critical I think you will find that the person who criticises a parent the most is themselves. Gotta vent and steam somewhere and a harmless fun-poke on a forum is the best way. Parents would understand...
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Old 28.03.2011, 20:20
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Re: Helicopter parenting: are you over protective?

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But what doesn't kill you makes you stronger right....
No, but how often do you see a young child fall down, and start crying when the mother arrives, not before ?
A good answer will have the word "often" in it.

At high school level, I am not allowed to tell you about my students. But I can tell you about the ones I had before I came to Switzerland:
- There are still independent teenagers, that is however not the norm anymore,
- There are many who could be independent but why would they be when they can not be just because adults make it possible for them not to be,
- There are a couple of cases the word "lazy" describes well, but I am not sure that's that many cases,
- There are hell of a lot of scared teenagers, the question is why they are scared of assessments and others' judgement.

I am no "best friend teacher". Smiling yes, kissing up to students no. HOWEVER: To me, it is a fact that our present young generation in schools have a high opinion of themselves and low opinion of their achievements. This is not contradictory, even if it looks like it. What I see are talented or not-talented-at-all students having the same fear of exams, final assessments, dead lines... and they are petrified at what peers, teachers and universtity admission officers think of them. Do we allow them to fail enough so that they can learn from it or do we allow them to fail without calling it failing because there are education-political goals to be hit by governments and administrations in order to sustain the system because nobody wants to admit partial or fragmental failings and shortcomings in mass education since the 60ies due to the change from restricted to mass education (public or private, it makes no difference in nature, it does probably in terms of quantity).

Here we are now: terrified students who know that they have to face a world where having a Master is a minimum in most branches and PhD starts to be standard in some. Keeping that in mind, they stand in front of their high school tasks and find them hard already. How can you not be petrified? How can you not doubt to ever achieve anything? How can you expect a teenager pushed to go to Gymnasium/Matura-Line by worried parents to be less worried than them?

Do you have any statistics about medication for anxiety among teens? I'd love to see them, because I have my own private teacher statistics I'd like to compare them with...
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Old 28.03.2011, 22:18
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Re: Helicopter parenting: are you over protective?

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This weekend I was discussing parenting styles with another mother. When I "only" had 2 kids, I had a close friend who had 3, who were a total of 2.5 years apart. She would often point out those parents who would "follow" their child up the jungle gym, with their hands held out behind, just in case they fell. She called this "over mothering". With 3 in such close succession, this was not an option for her. Her kids were bruised, scraped, dirty and happy.
If I didn't know better I would think you were talking about me!
I have had my 4 in 5 years and the youngest had to learn hard and learn fast! He had more brusies than the other 3 put together, but I put that down to him learning to crawl on tiles v's carpet for the others
Some friends do find my blasè attitude towards the kids falls, scrapes, cuts, extremely hard to deal with.
I have even had to calm them down when the youngest fell down a flight (small) of stairs. I knew he was fine by the way he was reacting and he was happy as once he was given something to eat. I guess we know our own children.


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One of my eldest's classmates was accompanied back and forth to school every morning, lunchtime and
evening until year 6.
We have a child exactly like that in our neighbourhood. With the recent project week I was asked to go and collect her 6 year old from the school (300m away & NO roads) as she had an appointment. The mother stresses so much about even going to the gym, "where will I put my handy incase the Kindergarten ring"?
This poor child is begging her mother to walk to Kindergarten but the mother refuses. How is this child going to react when she reaches an age when she is given some freedom? Will she totally rebel?
You need to give your children some responsibility but teach them that in exchange for this freedom they need to respect you and your rules and show that they have earned the trust that we have given them.

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I think I am a fan of Idle Parenting.
This is my type of parenting to a tee! I am happy to sit on the sofa reading my book (or on EF) while the kids play around me. It is extremely important that they know how to entertain themselves. I have taught many a child over the years who would constantly say "What can I do now?" "There's nothing to do".
My kids are at their happiest when I put the glue, scissors, sellotape and paper on the table and leave them to it. An hour later I may get a request for some extra bits to glue but that is it. The youngest one takes himself off for half an hour and plays with the trains, cars or happily reads books, and he has just turned 2. To me, this shows that they are comfortable & happy spending some time by themselves.

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A good test is when your child takes a slurp of his drink then offers the bottle around all his little mates - Swiss parents don't bat an eye and maybe offer a cracker in return, expat parents recoil in horror, nervously fidgeting with their handbag-sized bottles of alcohol hand rub.
Back in NZ the health department actively warn parents against sharing drink bottles with others due to the rise of meningitis.
I am happy for my kids to share each others water bottles but not from others due to the promotion of NOT sharing drinks.
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  #30  
Old 28.03.2011, 22:40
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Re: Helicopter parenting: are you over protective?

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Back in NZ the health department actively warn parents against sharing drink bottles with others due to the rise of meningitis.
I am happy for my kids to share each others water bottles but not from others due to the promotion of NOT sharing drinks.
If they're not sharing drinks bottles they are shoving slobber-covered toys in their mouths, which probably amounts to the same thing and if it's all happening in nursery there is little you can do about it.

Meningitis is a worry but I've not really seen much in the way of outbreaks in the 10 years I've been here that would spike it as a meningitis hotspot, so it would be interesting to see if the slobber-friendly Swiss kids succumb to it more frequently than the slobber-savvy NZ kids.
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Old 28.03.2011, 22:41
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Re: Helicopter parenting: are you over protective?

No, it wasn't you - it was a swiss girl who shall remain nameless.

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......I knew he was fine by the way he was reacting and he was happy as once he was given something to eat. I guess we know our own children.
the youngest are the toughest

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......You need to give your children some responsibility but teach them that in exchange for this freedom they need to respect you and your rules and show that they have earned the trust that we have given them.
Most important point of the day - but i have no greenies left

This is a lesson for life - for survival in the adult world.


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..... To me, this shows that they are comfortable & happy spending some time by themselves.
Many adults have not yet learned this(!) Look around the tram - who is smsing, who is reading the paper?




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.......
Back in NZ the health department actively warn parents against sharing drink bottles with others due to the rise of meningitis.
I am happy for my kids to share each others water bottles but not from others due to the promotion of NOT sharing drinks.
Yeah.. i was there. Got the bum-jabbed to prove it
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Old 28.03.2011, 22:46
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Re: Helicopter parenting: are you over protective?

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How can you not be petrified?
Fear dominates. Lack of genuine role models hinders. The whole shebang is petrifying but childhood has it's own perculiar horrors; the "blooming, buzzing confusion" never really fades. Look at the state of the world! Leading from the front and determining what is immediately necessary are the only pragmatic responses to dealing with the sobering reality of caring for children.

Ice cream has magical properties, though. I can recommend a hip flask and visits to Mövenpick.
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Old 28.03.2011, 22:51
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Re: Helicopter parenting: are you over protective?

I think I am getting a slightly different pet peeve, though...the difference between hands on/real/dirty/active parenting, no matter how much time and effort and devotion or planned autonomy, parents taking their time for themselves if they need and healthily ignore the kids a tad or whatever VERSUS the prevailing clinical approach. I can't stand cold up bringing. Calculated. Often folks have cash and compensate that cold approach with showering kids with expensive gifts and status toys. Thinking they are doing a great job. Clinical approach is bad. In teaching and in parenting. I like instinctive and dirty, even if it looks bad, low class and poor to the others.
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Old 28.03.2011, 23:02
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Re: Helicopter parenting: are you over protective?

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I think I am getting a slightly different pet peeve, though...the difference between hands on/real/dirty/active parenting, no matter how much time and effort and devotion or planned autonomy, parents taking their time for themselves if they need and healthily ignore the kids a tad or whatever VERSUS the prevailing clinical approach. I can't stand cold up bringing. Calculated. Often folks have cash and compensate that cold approach with showering kids with expensive gifts and status toys. Thinking they are doing a great job. Clinical approach is bad. In teaching and in parenting. I like instinctive and dirty, even if it looks bad, low class and poor to the others.
Instinctive and dirty - Likey!
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Old 28.03.2011, 23:18
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Re: Helicopter parenting: are you over protective?

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I think I am getting a slightly different pet peeve, though...the difference between hands on/real/dirty/active parenting, no matter how much time and effort and devotion or planned autonomy, parents taking their time for themselves if they need and healthily ignore the kids a tad or whatever VERSUS the prevailing clinical approach. I can't stand cold up bringing. Calculated. Often folks have cash and compensate that cold approach with showering kids with expensive gifts and status toys. Thinking they are doing a great job. Clinical approach is bad. In teaching and in parenting. I like instinctive and dirty, even if it looks bad, low class and poor to the others.

I totally agree with you there. I hope my post didn't sound like the cold, clinical approach. I love playing tag with the kids, snuggled up on the sofa reading books together, playing UNO etc, but I do give my children space to explore, discover and most importantly fail.

My eldest is a perfectionist and absolutely hates making mistakes or doing something "wrong". I often stand back and let him try and if he needs help I then talk him through it, but I NEVER do it for him. I give him heaps of praise for trying and when he feels it has failed I still praise him for trying and tell him about what he has actually learnt by it failing. I let my kids know when I have failed, not got something right or made a huge mistake. I think it is important that they see that adults are only human and that things don't always go right for us and then to see the different strategies that we use to "fix" the problem.

Basically I want my kids to have the sort of upbringing I had. Not a lot of technology (TV only started at 12pm & we only got 2 channels), lots of outside messy play, a lot of skinned knees, stubbed toes and heaps and heaps of laughter and fun with Mum and Dad.
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Old 28.03.2011, 23:29
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Re: Helicopter parenting: are you over protective?

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But what doesn't kill you makes you stronger right.... if she keeps falling over she learns it's not the end of the world, she picks herself, gets more confidence, and on she goes. A scratch on the nose is better than never falling.
True.

Two years ago, elder daughter crashed her motorcycle. First question was "when will you be finished fixing it?"

Tom
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Old 28.03.2011, 23:42
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Re: Helicopter parenting: are you over protective?

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True.
Two years ago, elder daughter crashed her motorcycle. First question was "when will you be finished fixing it?"
Tom
I bet it was your second question.
First question: "Are you alright?"
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Old 28.03.2011, 23:52
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Re: Helicopter parenting: are you over protective?

I think it was her first question, not his.
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Old 29.03.2011, 00:01
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Re: Helicopter parenting: are you over protective?

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Instinctive and dirty - Likey!
don't you get any idea there, hahaha...You know what I meant. I think if kids get a lot of attention, or sometimes some time on their own, it is really irrelevant, as long as the parents don't walk around with some earth shaking parenting books and trust their own hearts and guts, instead. Like, for example, the overkill with "quality time". It means different things to different folks, it all could be great if people are present and try their best.

It does not matter if it fits some irksome category in some fancy parenting mag or eager parents group. I remember my best quality time was when we put all our plants (I think it was 30 since mom is a botanical fan) into one room and played a jungle while we were riding on mom's back . It was not necessarily hiking 20 kms naming different types of birds or helping charity center, or having a hired tutor concerned about our academic future..

I just think what people decide to do is up to them, and nobody can really judge it, as long as their try to know their kids and do it with love and care, even if it is crazy and non standard.

What made me think of this was a questionnaire I just filled in for our kindy. They looked at me bewildered when they read that we love their care and devotion and would also appreciated if our daughter came home everyday dirty and stimulated, as opposed to clean and calm.
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Old 29.03.2011, 00:07
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Re: Helicopter parenting: are you over protective?

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I bet it was your second question.
First question: "Are you alright?"
No, that was HER question to me!

My first question was "where are you"?

Tom
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