So it's been 7 months since I had an arthroscopy on my left knee to remove some damaged meniscus..........= FAIL.

I have since had a second opinion, extensive physio, drugs, and still no improvement, and advised that this treatment just isn't working.

Today I had an appointment with a knee surgeon to discuss options, and he has since diagnosed that the cause of the knee problems is in fact NOT the meniscus, but the ACL (anterior cruciate ligament) is causing stability issues with the knee.

The prognosis, is that in years to come, my knee will be buggered anyway, but to take the surgery option now will mean that I will have a further 12 months of rehab (inclusive of almost 2-3 months on crutches)


This is NOT what I was expecting to hear, and having already missed my summer surfing the Atlantic somewhere, and now snowboarding is over for the winter before the ........ing snow has even arrived, I'm a little distressed to say the least.

My question to everyone is:
"Is it worth taking the surgery option now, and forfeit another year of activity?
or take the punt and risk further damage?"

I hear mixed reports of the success of ACL surgery, so if you are in that catagory, I would love to hear your stories and advice to help me piece the puzzle together (what to do for now and in the future).


I'm 36, and previously very active, and not ready to settle for a non-active life just yet.

that sucks, man.

What I know:

a Female bjj practicioner (35) in My team Procceeded to royally mess her ACL.

She got surgery and was said to be out for the same amount of time.
She However, did intensive physio for 3-4 months and was able to compete on at least 2 tournaments, winning both.

Oddly enough she had her checkup yesterday and the knee is good to go.

Hope that cheers you up if you decide to go for it.

a 'what' practicioner?





Thanks....... I'm glad to hear that the surgery went well and the knee is a success.

I was expecting a few more responses on this

It's friday, man. People gotta get down on friday. Except you 'coz you know... your knee...

Don't ever do surgery if you can manage without, there is a small chance that it will be complications & it will be far wose than it is now. A surgeon wanted to fix my ACL 15 years ago......

Oh,........ I can 'get down' alright.

getting back up is the hard part

I had a similar situation with my shoulder.

Like you, I was also very active prior to injury. I had the shoulder operated on, and initially, it only made things much, much worse, but my doctor refused to consider that there was still a problem until a year had passed and I had less range of motion than before the surgery. So... repeat the same steps -- xrays, mri, therapy, blah blah blah... well... long story short... a second operation revealed that one of the anchors connecting things together had broken.

After the second surgery, the recovery went much better, and I saw all of the results that I wanted. I could finally move my arm again and was living a pain free life.

I will always regret that I ever got the first operation, because I lost my happy lifestyle and my high level of fitness (and my skinny jeans that came with it). But I think the best thing I did was go back under the knife to get things done right. My shoulder will never be 100% again. And I'm never going to be as fit as I was ever again. I've accepted that. At least now I feel like, I can go back to getting into shape when I'm ready; the only thing stopping me is... well... nothing.


My message to you is... you've already had one surgery, you're still in pain, but now there's more certainty to cure what ails you with this new information. I think you'd be much happier in the long run, despite the short-term costs, if you go ahead and get the ACL fix, than if you do nothing at all.

"Manage without"

I think this is open to interpretation.

For me, I can't live without surfing, running, and snowboarding etc. so I see my knees as pretty important.


However, and technically speaking, the knees are fine for just walking around etc.
It's when I push things that things go wrong.


15 YEARS is about the time frame in the future I was looking at.

In hind sight, had you had the surgery, do you think there would be a significant difference to your life?

What sort of limitations and complications did you experience in the last 15 years?
(regular sore knees, limitations to your sports, etc)

ok..to the artist formerly known as B
i have no life 'cept on the forum, hence i'll take your bait.

Had this surgery about 15 years ago (meniscus & ACL- also broke the tibia but thats not important). About 3-4 years ago, during a visit to a very nice specialist to the Schulthaus klinik in ZH about another issue, the guy informed me that I could/should get the ACL repaired again.

I HATED being on crutches, and certainly wasnt good with the rehabilitation (sitting still) period. I would say it took 18 months- but I was about 22 then
I would not/have not done it again. Go to the gym and ask a clever physio to give you the exercises that will build up the muscle to do similar work. Get a brace!!
You can always have it done in 12 months, if you really cant do your sports.

I can do triathelons, ski, play volley ball, netball on the knee- though I do have a brace for the volley ball/netball. I sometimes dont wear the brace skiing- but i'm not as wild as i was in the younger years
I have also subconsciously learned to favour the knee when kids come flying at it- but you'll do that operation or not.

Running hurts much in the cold, as do some other sports. but it would anyway. Just get hard, man or learn to enjoy the pain

PS: sitting still sux!

On the other hand, IF you get the operation done, do it in autumn/winter, not summer.
Its worse not being able to jump in the water than not being able to ski/board. (which you could do again in 6 months)

Do chicks dig scars? Do you care if they do or not?

PPS: If you cannot get up from a sitting position (old man ) then you need to do some muscle work(!) And after the operation you will STILL need to do some muscle work(!)

I'm aware of the time frame, hence why I am so hesitant to agree to this.

But the thing is, I HAVE had the extensive physio, and rehab.
My knee only ever gets so good, then it falls into a pile of shit (swells, with various pain and symptoms).

The surgeon today told me that all the muscle in the world won't hold my knee straight as I have a structural problem.
The ACL is too lose and the lower leg slides back causing pain at the front of the knee.

As you said though, if you got 15 years out of the knee (less the 18months of recovery, then that puts me into my 50's.
I won't be tripping the light fantastic then.

I also think that trying to be 'harder' than I am got me into this mess in the first place.

speak for yourself(!) i will still be


Then get it done now. You've been talking about this for a year, man..
In fact, if my memory serves me correctly, I've even shown you my scar

But make sure you have the girlfriend on hand to bring you chicken soup while you're hurting...
Or stay with friends- because you wont be allowed out of bed for a bit.

I had an ACL (and MCL) break last year, whilst skiing. I tried to get away without surgery, but after 5 months of physio, there was little improvement. Still painful and my leg felt very unstable. Eventually, having got a second opinion at Balgrist, I had the repair done in May. I had another 6 weeks on crutches and three months with a brace, followed by another week in the hospital having the scar tissue broken down (no pain, just very boring!). Finally, I should be able to ski again in the new year.

I would recommend the surgery if you want to lead an active life again. It is boring being on crutches, but not as bad as more ski seasons sitting in coffee shops watching my family zip past. I can also highly recommend the Balgrist Klinic - they really took great care of me.

Just say'n


Oh......'Scars', you were showing me the scars? - wow, I got that wrong.


As for the GF, good point.
I'll begin racking up the brownie points now

Do tell......... all the gory details please

Seriously, what does this entail? and why does it take a week?

I'll be at Balgrist

In 15 years my kids will be 17, 21 and 23..
so Friday nights wont be spent playing taxi-mum & on the forum

and yours will be 10, 7 and 3..

nuff said



It was just a knee, man...
Why do you guys always get the wrong end of the stick?!

I'm sorry to hear you're having knee troubles and I can definitely relate. I tore (completely severed) my left ACL playing football (American football, that is) about seven years ago. Like you, I did the full physio and rehab routine for a few months and got a couple of opinions but the verdict was that I would never be able to get back to the sports I love without wearing a brace, and, even then, there would still be some risk and discomfort, which was unacceptable to me. Although there were no promises of making my knee as 'good as new', I was told that with the proper surgical method (patella tendon method performed by a good doctor who specializes in sports orthopaedic surgery) and a serious commitment to rehab, I would get to the 90 to 95% point within 12 to 18 months, and this is exactly what happened. I worked hard and stopped using a brace about 14 months after surgery (but returned to football after about eight months with a brace), feeling almost exactly like my old self. I nailed every single physio target and reduced all projected timelines...a real success story.

Unfortunately, three years later, I severed my right ACL and partially tore my MCL at the same time (not completely severed, classified as a moderate-to-serious tear or Class 2 tear). This time, I knew the feeling (and sound...yuck), and pretty much knew my ACL was done. I fast-tracked the diagnosis (cross-border MRI the next day) and surgery so I went straight from crutches to the operating table (about six weeks after the injury, if I remember correctly). The surgery was performed the same way by the same doctor, a skilled surgeon who has done the same procedure on several professional athletes. Unfortunately, even though I was every bit as committed and worked really hard after the operation, instead of blowing away all my targets, I just barely hit them. I found the rehab to be more difficult and painful (yes, you should know that it's not comfy) and I had a significant amount of muscle atrophy (probably from my time on crutches both pre- and post-surgery). Bottom line, even though the second surgery was classified as a success and my rehab was on target (always at or above average), I felt like the second surgery was far less successful. Although I was able to discharge the use of the brace for some sports, I was never able to do so for football (at least not on grass). To this day, I still don't trust my right knee completely. I'd put it at 80% of its former self on a good day (and probably about 65% on a cold-wet or lots-of-sitting day). I still have no idea why my two surgeries had such different results. It could be because the second was on my dominant leg (and the one I rely on most often for pivoting and bracing, both in football and baseball), or it could be because I was three years older, but I doubt it. I honestly think it had a lot to do with rushing things along, rather than spending the time to do all the physio up front pre-surgery but I guess I'll never know.

Nobody can know what's right for you but you. You'll need to weigh the pros and cons of brace versus surgery but from the sounds of things, you want to be very active and (virtually) unaffected by the injury, which probably tips the scale toward surgery (at least it did for me). I'd always advocate a more cautious/thorough approach and I don't think there's any harm in trying to use a brace before making your final decision but if you go this route, make sure it is a professionally fitted custom brace (and have it made when your swelling is minimal).

If/when evaluating surgeons, make sure you get as many opinions as you need (at least two) and only commit to surgery with a doctor who can give you excellent references for people in a similar situation (age group, activities, long-term goals, gender, etc.) Also, if you're debating between the hamstring method and patellar tendon (bone-tendon-bone method), I would strongly advise against the former (based on feedback from several dissatisfied people who had this procedure) even though the latter often results in a longer and more difficult rehab process. Best of luck with your situation. If you want more details or if there is anything I can do to help, please feel free to send me a PM.

I had to have the scar tissue broken down because too much had formed and it was limiting my knee bend to about 90 degrees - obviously not great! So, they ran a fine catheter down a nerve in my leg (fully awake, but in the outer rooms of the operating theatre). I couldn't really feel anything. I was then left with a thing a bit like an IV line stuck to the top of my leg. Into this they injected some thing that blocks the nerve, so you get a completely dead leg. It is a bit of an odd sensation, but not at all painful. Back up to the room (lovely view, great food) and the physio came in and bent my leg to 140 degrees. Very odd to see it ( and hear all the scar tissue breaking...!) The nerve block wore off overnight, and was toped up again each morning. Rinse and repeat for 5 days and, Bingo.. leg that bends to about 130 degrees.

You'll be pleased to hear that not everyone has to go through that, it's just that I produced too much scar tissue. As I said - it wasn't painful just boring being in bed all day.

I have done both.

First knee 20 years ago....no surgery as it was complicated back then.

Other knee in 2004 in Switzerland. The one that is fixed is in much better shape than the unfixed one.

Can't say whether you should wait or not. Depends on the stability in the knee, there is a school of thought that you can stabilize the knee effectively by serious training to build up the muscles. If your knee is unstable, I would not recommend doing any activities that are knee intensive until you get it stabilized. Any damage you do, will be with you for life. If you get things worked out now, you can still have an active life for 25+ years. It is not the end of your active life, just take six months off and it get sorted. No way you should be on a crutches for 2 months. I was on for 3 weeks. Aggressive physio is important - don't skip it.