After four years of drip, drip incidents of people just not being nice to kids (mine and others) I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that there is a general attitude of intolerance here towards kids.

Of course, there are a lot of people who seem to have a natural way with kids here too but in general I seem to come across a disproportinately high percentage of adults in Switzerland with a very low tolerance for children and many of them actually have jobs working with them!

Here are some of the things that I've experienced first hand:

-The crazy teacher I've just managed to get my 6 year old away from. A situation I've already discussed here.

-A meeting with the new teacher last Friday, a great teacher who is fantastic with the kids (who perhaps not coincidentally taught in Canada for 18 years), after a brief discussion about he problems with the previous teacher she volunteers "yes, I am surprised at how rude teachers are here (in Switzerland) to kids. They really speak down to them".

-Sitting in a very loud and crowded pizza restaurant on Friday night, my kids and my friends kids were being harangued by a middle-aged woman at another table pretty much for our entire meal. "you're not the only people in the restaurant, you know". Mind you, a bunch of old, drunk dudes were making far more noise than us, besides which the place was packed and the general noise level was high. Our kids were excited but by no means out of control.

-The ski instructor for my 4 year old, quite young and employed, I would expect, for her skills teaching kids, told me she couldn't deal with my kid because she was crying. "she says she's cold and I have other children in the class you know!". I asked her if this was the first child that ever cried in her class and how does she usually deal with a child who is upset. FFS what does she expect when dealing with 4 year olds?

-The toy store in Lutry that told me as I walked in the door with my kids that I should make sure the children don't touch anything! A toy store!

-And the best yet, my 4 year old comes home from school yesterday and said that the lady in the canteen at school TAPED A KID'S MOUTH CLOSED because they were being too noisy. WTF?


So, am I just incredibly unlucky or have others noticed this too? I am almost at the end of my tether with it.

I have to agree with you up to a certain extent, yes I see that sometimes people on the tram are a bit impatient with other people's kids but I have also seen some very bad behaviors from parents. Just the other day I saw this little girl, so cute, at the coop ...then all of a sudden she goes into a tantrum the father tried to calm her down miserably and I mean no authority at all and them reached to the fridge inside the coop and opened a juice and gave it to her and she stopped crying...I wonder if such behavior would work if the girl wanted a pony? So well, I would have lost my temper also if the girl had continued to cry so hard but I was not mad at her, I wanted to kill the dad!

I have kids of my own and they were babies/toddlers once, so I definitely do not dislike kids per se. What I can't stand, however, is that many parents do not teach their kids to behave in a certain way when they are in a public place. Screaming, yelling, stomping around without any parent interference gets me overboard, in a restaurant and most of all on a train. If that makes me intolerant, so be it.

Well,of course I am going to say my kids are brilliantly behaved and I would describe my parenting style as more disciplinarian than liassez faire.

So are you saying people are intolerant of ALL kids because SOME parents don't discipline their kids properly. Perhaps the people who believe that shouldn't choose to work with kids in that case.

I completely agree with you! It is amazing how a kid could turn a Migros upside down and the parents would sit, smile and watch! I do come from Eastern Europe where we would have the other extreme, that is the parents would mop the floor of the same Migros with the kid but here I have seen some situations that make me wonder.
btw...my boy, a few weeks after we moved to CH, came to me and told me: Thanks for disciplining me...other wise I would have ended up like these kids Even an 11 years old boy noticed

This and the thread title

I think there's more likely a feeling that kids are not meant to be spoiled here but intolerance towards kids?...Some fantastical conclusions being drawn perhaps that why the perceived intolerance has come your way

This from the master of fantastical conclusions.....
I admire the Fantasy Switzerland that you've created in your mind.

I refer you to my post 4 on this thread.

You think it's ok to tape a kids mouth closed, even if that kid has absolutely NO parental discipline.

No doubt whatsoever about your kids

I would say the number of parents not dsciplining is very high. And maybe teachers get sick and tired of having to deal with kids who don't know the basics of social behavior. But you are right, they should choose a different profession once they realize that.

Rant commencing ...

This is a thread VERY close to my heart and something I battle with EVERY day (... and yes I do know that putting things in capitals is shouting)

My child has learning difficulties, particularly in the area of communication. It results in him relatively often (perhaps a couple of times a week) "losing it" when we are out in public. He becomes stressed by something or upset and the only way he finds to express himself is to have a good old toddler tantrum and scream .. very very loudly. He is 4 years old. It is impossible to reason with him (did I say he has learning difficulties?) and the only thing to do is wait it out/distract him. And while I do this, what happens? Nosy busy bodies come up to me and shout at me (yes shout) about how I am dealing with him.

It is bad enough to have to deal with the day to day realities of a child who has problems, without the world (as it often feels) coming down on you because of their perception of your lack of parenting skills.

Yes, I know, every tantruming child is not necessarily a child like mine, but ....

Please, please, give a thought to the wider picture. What you see is not necessarily what you think you are seeing. In my case, you are seeing a desparately struggling parent wishing, just wishing, it was so simple as instilling a little discipline.

Rant over.

Sorry to read this ecb. As I said, my kids are brilliantly behaved and I get the kind of crap I outlined in my first post. God forbid I actually had a challenging child to deal with here in Switzerland. Hats off to you.

very good rant!
thanks

Hon, I feel for you and of course there are situations that get out of hand. And no way should somebody come up to you and shout - that is something I would never do, no matter what, maybe that IS typically Swiss.

Thank you.

The reality is there are days when it gets so bad that I just feel like never going outside the house ever ever again. And to be honest, his behaviour is not so bad - it is the reactions to his behaviour that tip me over the edge.

But yesterday, he had a mini meltdown (mini is when the meltdown is 2 minutes and under in duration) in the queue at Aldi. I had the shopping on the belt at the till, so didn't have the usual option of running out (which is what I tend to do) so had to brazen it out. For what seems like the first time in months, if not years, the people infront and behind me in the queue and the cash till lady said nothing. Nada. Eyes down and got on with it.

He suddenly spied the sliding cashtill operators door which totally distracted him and he stopped screaming and started playing sliding the door open and shut. Tantrum over. No comments. I even had a chance for some deep breaths before it was my turn to pay.

How I wanted to kiss the people on either side of me in the queue

Edit: the irony is that my anxiety about peoples' reactions when out in public makes me so stressed whenever we go out that I am sure he plays on that ... and it also means that I am always in such a heightened state of worry watching for triggers that might start him off that, for the majority of the time when he is manageable and well behaved, I do not enjoy myself as I should .... so yes, I do need a parenting course but one in calming down when sh*t happens ..

So sorry for your distress, ECB and Mel07. Hugs to you both.

Shouting at strangers while they are trying to help their upset child. Unacceptable.

I just don't understand the propensity of strangers to interfere in a situation such as this, unless it was in a helpful way, which I witnessed yesterday at a small grocery in France. A kind worker who was stocking the produce section gave a smile and a small cluster of grapes to a small child in a buggy, who was in the process of throwing a tantrum and wailing at a very high volume. Problem solved!

How do people not realize that of course parents do not want their kid to throw a tantrum in public? Do they not realize that if the parent could do anything to successfully stop it, they would?

And if by chance that parent is self-absorbed and truly does not care in the least about the situation (as cdcdoc spoke of), it would seem a bit silly to think that hearing a complete stranger tut-tut them regarding their child's behaviour and/or their parenting skills/style is going to be a lightbulb moment and the catalyst for some great future change!

Everybody should just mind their own business when a kid is pitching a fit, methinks.

Key word highlighted.

I never thought I'd see the day when I come back from Paris, a place not reknowned for their customer service skills, and think how nice they were with kids. One of the reasons I like to holiday in Greece, Italy and the middle east. People there genuinely like kids and you actually feel you can relax and have a holiday.

In my experience, I would actually say the opposite.
Restaurants, trains, shops the Swiss are always very pleasant and interactive to children, well mines anyway.
She is at the aged when she sits in a restaurant for 5 mins, gets bored and decides her fork/toy/book is better on the floor than in her hand and as usual it lands at the feet of the person sitting next us. An apology from us is always met with a smile and generally they will pick up the object and pass it back.
On the transport the Swiss, all ages, male and female are very happy to interact, smiling, waving etc.
Kinderkrippe, the teachers are excellent with the children.
For me I think the Swiss are very natural with kids, maybe it changes as children get older.

So glad your experience is different. Perhaps I should move to Zurich.

I am sure it is only a coincidence, but the parents I have heard complain loudest about the Swiss attitude toward children are British or Australian. I suspect at least part of the perceived problem is simply cultural differences in how folks raise their children. it doesn't mean anything is right or wrong, just different. for better or worse, though, when you live in somebody else's country, it is generally best to try and figure out their rules and customs - you don't have to like them, but changing them is highly unlikely.

btw, our 3 kids are absolute gringo heathens, and we have found folks out in public to be generally quite fond of children.

I can relate more to BobBons experience too, maybe the German side is kid friendlier