I need some help...Im trying to resolve a family issue and everyone has me convinced I'm crazy so I need some guidance

My wife, my brother in law and I all work at the same company that produces a product. ( i dont want to go into too many details on what it is) Well anyways, the brother in law has access to this product that we produce and sell. It is a fairly inexpensive thing to make (<1 chf) but of course since this is Ch, it sells for several times that. Amyways, a few months ago he offered to "take" a few of these items and bring it to us to use in the apartment. I was quite skeptical, but agreed to it because I was sure you cannot get caught doing it. He has done it before for others and has no supervision. Tonight my wife mentioned it to him again, and that he should bring them next week. I once again had objections and this time i realized my objections were not the result of fear of being caught but because i feel its wrong.

I told my wife after the bil left that it wouldn't be right to take from the company that employs us, they provide us with a very good living. I said even though they make a lot of money, its still stealing.

My wife is catholic to the bone, no meat on fridays, no working on sundays...so i asked her how she can condone and even encourage this? Stealing is down on the list of 10 commandments, but its still on there.

Anyway, long story short, she basically flipped out on me and totally turned what i said into a negative thing..saying she would tell her brother i thought he was a thief and that i bad mouthed him and she is refusing to have any kind of further discourse on the matter....went to sleep in the guest room

So, what do you guys think? Am i wrong on this, did i say the wrong thing? How can i fix it?

PS: I have no desire to report anyone, what he does is his business and i dont want to stick my nose in it

PPS: No the "product" is not drugs or anything illegal, this is a very legitimate company.i just dont wish to say what it is because basically only one company produces this

To cut a long story short...he IS a thief. And if it is any consolation I think you are right.

I think you are right too.

I know of a lot of people, who take home pens, paper and such things from the office and that is officially classed as theft.

And also, I don't like the reaction of your wife, if you don't mind me saying so...

You object to receiving stolen property and are sent to the guest bed?! Sounds like you have a bigger mess on your hands than being accused of insulting(?!WTF?!) you brother in law. Good luck. Stick to your guns, you are doing the right thing.

You are right. But are you going to let the stupid actions of your brother-in-law ruin your marriage??

If your wife is a strict Catholic, what are you? An even stricter one?? Get off your high horse.

There are times when it's best to just keep quiet with families. Blood is thicker than water. You won't win...

Is the company producing condoms?

i guess depends if it is really stealing, or if the company accepts it (free samples) or is happy to let a few items go out to employees.

Judging by the name you chose for your avatar, I think the problem is bigger than your brother in law stealing (which, to my eyes, he is).

If you take something that doesn't belong to you, either without permission from the owner or without paying for it, it's stealing. The person taking it is a thief. It is that simple. The cost of something to make plays no part in whether it's stealing or not, nor does the amount of money a person does or does not make. I'm not going to get into an philosophical debate on when is it right to steal, that's for a different flame war that I'm sure will break out.

You are right on this however the problem I see for you is that you appear to have approved of this in the past and are now changing your mind. Whether you think of it as having approved or not is for you to decide, but generally speaking either having not said "no" from the start or asking the bil when he was bringing the stuff means you approved. Add to it that it's her brother and well, it's going to be a bit of a rough road for you.

You might have a point to use with the religion and breaking one of the 10 commandments. I suggest you lean on that one to help with her.
Also suggest you examine yourself to determine why you were going along with the idea to begin with and have an honest discussion on why you are changing your thinking. I'm only guessing as I don't know any of you, but if it comes across to her that you are now pointing a finger rather than admitting a shared guilt it could be part of the reason for her reaction.

An old saying I remember hearing, something to the effect of "you don't bite the hand that feeds you" would seem to apply

Ab, so you think he should be complicit in theft from their employer, with the stolen goods coming into this house with his knowledge of how they were obtained ? That makes him an accessory to the crime

Sorry, can't see the reason for the get off your high horse comment, how does that work when he's talking about theft. It's not a debate on if the bil should be swearing or watching internet porn, it's about a crime

The problem is not the crime. But the results that the crime has brought into the OP's married life.

There is no debate that his brother-in-law is an active thief who is stealing. Theft is theft whether gold bars or, as MrVertigo suggests, condoms. But I can see that by taking a high moral tone and sticking to his principles the OP is putting his marriage in jeopardy.

The OP has to ask which is more important, his marriage or his brother-in-law's theft of unknown household items valued at about CHF1 from his employer.

Life and especially marriage is about compromise and flexibility, not making a moral stand against your partner's close family...

On that we will just have to disagree, I find it interesting the comment that the crime isn't the problem but how it's affected the marriage. Compromise and flexibility can be taken to extremes, sadly we see examples of this everyday in the news.

Just so we are clear, I'm not making any statement of having any moral purity over others. There are rights and wrongs and everyone has bent their views/actions in a way that has crossed a line more than once in our lives

There are things that are worth making a stand over, each persons line is different

Of course it is stealing. And if you knowingly take the product from him, then you and your wife are guilty of "receiving." That's without even looking at the moral or ethical side of the issue.

What if the company actually gives those things away to employees? Then its not stealing is it?

What happens if the brother in law is caught, will it affect to the wife job and Op job? The 3 of them may end up jobless. That my be in the back of the Op mind when oposing to what the brother in law is doing.

Not likely...Catholic...d'uh

Assuming you would like to have a second thought on how to fix this.

1) Short Term: since you also work on the same company, try to pay back in any terms what comes into your home even if it comes without your intention (like working a bit extra hours, bringing something to the office that you can bring which comes into the product need..)

2) Long Term: I believe with Ladies, confrontation and being too direct does not always work -(not being direct doesn't mean telling lies - just being more kind than just shoting what needs to be said) - so try to make the same act in a way that she is the one who is getting stolen, like taking one small belonging of her and when returning it back after she recoginze it is lost, ask her how she feels - and don't discuss it much, take it step by step until she recognize how not good it is, if this did not work look for other ways to send her the message without much discussions that may lead to guest room at the end of the day.

Good luck.

Before everyone (including the original poster) accuses the brother-in-law of theft, let's make sure that's what's actually happening. It might be that the BIL's company is totally happy with people taking things home.

I used to work at a company that produced chewing gum. There was a room full of samples, although these were to be consumed in the office and not taken away -- it was a way for employees and visitors to taste the new products so they could be more knowledgable about them.

There was a second room full of products near their expiration. These were freely available to take home, give to friends, etc -- consumption had to be "reasonable", and under no circumstances were the items to be resold.

The simplest way around this ethical dilemma is to ask the BIL outright: "Is your company OK with you taking these products?"

If the answer is "yes, these were left over from the production run and we're encouraged to take them home," then you can keep asking for the items with a clear conscience. If the answer is "awww, no one will ever notice," then you're probably talking about something that has been taking without the company's permission -- and your ethical compass should tell you what to do.

After a refreshing night on the couch, i can expand the story a bit......

To clear up what some posters are suggesting; taking items home is definitely not accepted at this company. I work in the Front Office and my wife and bil work in the production, in seperate departments. I am very familiar with company policy. There have been people who have been fired on the spot for taking even small screws home. She would never take something herself because its too risky, her brother works the night shift with no supervision from his bosses.

Secondly; I have never accepted any stolen goods. A couple of months ago they discussed it, I wasnt into the idea but kind of went along with it to keep the peace. Now its actually time for him to go through with it, and i dont want it to happen. (honestly, then i was more scared of getting tangled up than about the moral consequences, but now that i think about it, its just wrong)

I mentioned her Catholicism to establish the fact that she is not morally bankrupt. I certainly am not perfect, if it had been a different time period in my life, or the situation different, i cannot say i would feel this way. I think she is not really looking at this rationally, and thinking of this as an opportunity.

I plan on having work friends at my house sometime. They probably will see what we have in our apartments. It would be hard to prove that we stole it, but people can suspect and in some way that is much worse

Lastly, it troubles me that she has this kind of viewpoint and blind loyalty to her family. She really has a soft spot for her family, especially her mom and brother. What i said is that I dont feel comfortable taking the goods, and if we take it we are stealing. What that turned into is me saying her brother is a thief....

Take the said items away (or back to company if possible) from your home. Wait for her reaction. If she gets mad at you because you stole it from "her" or "common house", tell her it's exactly what she's been doing with the company, and that the company feels the same way:robbed.