Sorry, perhaps I should just be keeping to the thread "contesting school placement of 6th grader" but I have this letter to finish for tomorrow that is to go to a "Conference des Maitres" and no one seems to know what that is. Forgive me, I'll understand if I get chastised. I really am not well-versed in thread rules...

Anyhow, either way, I'm getting a first-hand education in education here, but I really am not enjoying this effort. My first letter and subsequent meeting with the director and main teacher went as well as I could have imagined, and they concluded that the teachers would meet on June 13th to decide whether to put my 6th grader in VSG or VSB next year. They sent their decision (VSG) in a letter with supporting information last Friday.

My daughter's exact grade averages since January are: 5.3 math, 5.17 science, 4.67 german, 5 history, 4.67 geography. No French grade since they are keeping her in intensive French. She's been here since July 2010 with no previous knowledge of French. So that's pretty good given that children with equivalent grade averages are placed in VSB. The argument from the last meeting for putting her in G is that she needs another year to firm up her base, especially in French, before a very likely move up to VSB the following year. However, the teachers characterize her as motivated, curious, capable in quickly understanding new and difficult material, perservering, etc. All absolutely true.

So I have written my letter but it is a strange thing to write a letter without understanding who these maitres are and how this next meeting is set up. I won't send the letter until tomorrow noon.

If anyone has any ideas about this, would really appreciate the info. I called the school last Friday afternoon when I received the letter but haven't been able to connect with the right person. And no one I have talked to in my circles has ever heard of such a thing...

If I am not completly mistaken "conference des maitres" translates into English as "teachers' conference" (maître is a (old-fashioned?) word for (primary) school teacher).
It is basically a meeting of all the teachers who teach the students, who are about to be streamed. It approves the decisions regarding the streaming of the studenst.

Yes, it is a meeting of the teachers as the above poster noted.

Per the (law) Loi scolaire Vaudois, they use this term for deciding the 3 streams, see art. 26--

Art. 26e


f) Orientation 14


1 A l'issue du cycle, le conseil de classe communique aux parents une proposition motivée d'orientation sur la base du dossier d'évaluation. En cas de désaccord, la situation est réexaminée avec les parents. Le désaccord persistant, la conférence des maîtres tranche.

In addition, the Reglement to the Loi scolaire, also refers to the decision of the conference de maitres, art. 32:

Art. 32 Décision


1 Sur préavis final du conseil de classe et en connaissance de la position des parents, la conférence des maîtres décide de l'orientation de chaque élève.

I haven't translated the above as it exists only in French, but if you need help with the French, let me know.

As I understand the system (only following along with what my OH has mentioned to me on how it works), this meeting allows you to "plead your case" if you want your child to be placed in VSB rather than VSG as they (the teachers) have recommended.

I understand that if you push, you can make this happen. If her level of French is the concern, you might want/need to say that she will have extra tutoring outside of school to bring her level up (especially written - which will be even more important next year).

As we do not know your level of French, is this meeting in French and can you actually argue your case? If your French level is not great, you might want to take a Swiss friend along who can translate.

The other posters have hit the nail on the head.We are going through exactly the same thing with our son now here in Neuchâtel.

You have the right to contest the decision and present your reasoning to them and then the 'conference des Maitres' has the final say on the matter.

As far as I can tell here it's a big meeting of all the teachers who have dealings with the child across the whole ranges of subjects who put forward their impression and experiences with the said child.

In Neuchatel there is a coding system. You need at least AAB to go to the top stream. He has an A for the cantonal exams but only a B for the annual results average (brought down by his ineptitude in sport) so the third mark from the Maitres is critical for him.
We have been asked to give our opinions which will be taken into consideration as will the project and presentation he has been working on. We expressed the opinion that it would be ridiculous to base his future schooling on his lack of ability in gym/dance/running which are not his preferred sports as the rest of his results were good enough.
We also have the school psychologist's report as the teachers have expressed concern about his lack of concentration in class. He showed up with a high IQ (136) and she said he more than likely was bored and lacking motivation in class. This is a problem faced by about 3% of children in Neuchatel schools who consistently under achieve in exams and which at the moment is being addressed by the canton.

Good luck with your appeal. I hope it all works out for you.

Per Belgianmum's comments, the 'orientation' decision parameters in Vaud is somewhat different. Per the reglement de loi scolaire, the following are taken into consideration, art. 28:

Art. 28
Procédure d'orientation 7

a) Principe (Art. 26 LS)


1 L'orientation de l'élève à l'issue du cycle de transition résulte d'une procédure à laquelle sont associés les parents. Elle s'appuie en particulier sur : a.
les résultats scolaires;
b.
l'évaluation globale du travail de l'élève et de son attitude face aux apprentissages;
c.
l'observation du travail de l'élève dans les disciplines à niveaux;
d.
les résultats de l'élève aux épreuves cantonales de référence;
e.
le projet personnel de l'élève et ses intérêts.


2 Cet ensemble d'informations permet de déterminer chez l'élève: a.
son degré de maîtrise des objectifs du programme;
b.
ses progrès réalisés au cours du cycle, en particulier au cours de la seconde année;
c.
sa capacité à s'adapter à de nouvelles conditions d'apprentissage et à de nouvelles matières;
d.
son attitude face aux différentes disciplines et au travail scolaire en général.

Absolutely.
All the cantons have different criteria.
The transition cycle is only one year in Neuchatel for example but all the things listed for Vaud are assessed in one way or another here too.

At the end of the day the teachers/school/canton has the final say regardless of what the parents think. The only thing you can do is to present a very strong case for your daughter.

Thank you all for your help!

I have sent off my letter to the conference, with the help of a very nice friend who corrected my many grammatical errors...

On June 13 the teachers had already met, I believe, to discuss our case. So I was confused by this next arranged meeting, this conference. It seems to be more formal and I also get the idea that it is rather unusual to bring a case to this level.

The last letter from the school argues that her marked success in history and geography is due to her being allowed to use her books for the exams. My daughter never opened a book during her tests, as her classmates will attest, but the teacher stated in the letter that her tests were open book...

Well, this has been quite an adventure...

Good luck Belgianmum! Where in the process are you now? Do you get the idea that your arguments will be heard?

This is so difficult and again illustrates so well that arriving in CH after the age of, say, 8, and without any French- will lead to such difficulties.

In the case of BelgianMum's son, he was born and bred in a French-speaking country, and his whole education was in French - although English is spoken at home. So he should be fine with a bit of support in the academic stream.
In contrast, even if a child has excellent marks in maths and sciences, etc- but is still receiving support in French and not able to join in French class at Junior level - I just cannot see how s/he could cope with the very high level of academic French, grammar, writing and literature, in an academic stream.
Probably the reasoning behind the decision made.

I know it is very tough to accept - but placing said child in an academic stream without an excellent grasp of French (German/Italian depending on area) may well not be the best solution long-term. BTW, where do you come from? Would be interesting to know to ascertain how the system compares here to there. I have written many times already about the differences with the UK system - where students in comprehensives are setted individually per subject, and not as a 'class' (eg can be in Set 1 for maths and science, Set 2 in English, Set 4 in French, etc / wherease in Switzerland a 'class' is made up of children more or less all at the same level overall- and where no child can succeed if very low in one subject, especially such an essential one as the local language (tested academically at a high level). Bonne chance.

It seems that there are two more articles that control the situation. Here is a copy from the letter we received. Hope it helps.

EDIT: Sorry, did not see that Runningdear already copied Art. 32 in a previous post.

We're waiting for the verdict of the teacher's assessment at the moment and will have the right to appeal if we don't agree.
He has to present his project at the end of this week. They have been working on it all year as far as I can tell and this is one of the major areas assessed by the main class teachers. They had to choose a subject, do all the research themselves either on the internet or at the library and then submit a written piece followed by a short presentation. We only got to see his written work yesterday after he had handed it in as they are very strict on the fact that it should be all their own work without any parental help (which I think is a good thing). Though I say so myself he has produced any excellent piece of work on Asthma so hopefully he should do well in that.

I have to say that he is not awfully motivated to be in the top stream because as things stand there is only one other boy from his class going there so he won't be with all his friends. He thinks it will be much easier and more fun in the middle stream but that's 12 year old boy thinking for you.

I'm not sure if we will appeal if they decide to put in him moderne. We'll cross that bridge if and when we come to it.

Definitely 12 year old boy speak. If he's bored with the work now, he'll be even more bored at a lower level school.

It makes me crazy that sports could keep him in a lower academic(!) level. As long as he's encourage (all of us right!?) do some exercise the fact that he doesn't like or isn't good at sports or those particular sports shouldn't matter to his academics.

I wouldn't worry, it is not unusual in our school at all, in fact we have a bunch every single "conference des maitres". This meeting is at every single term end. People who teach the kiddo vote in the matter raised. I as a prof find it great in cases where the child has been poorly assessed.

I think it depends entirely on the child. My son started in 8eme VSG last year, just off the boat from Massachusetts. No French, except a few months in French public school when he was 6 and a year of 7th grade French class. He's in VSB redoing 8eme but receiving 4.5 average in the regular French class. German is harder, since he doesn't live in German and he started several years past the others, but he is making major progress in the second half of the year. He says VSB is the right school for him and that it is "good for me". He is proud to be there and his friends are very good students.

I want this for my daughter, too. Pushy parent, perhaps, but I'm not telling them what to do. They are still steering their boats. I'm just there to back them up.

The US has very little tracking at this age. But my son, in particular, prefers this system. For him it is much easier to understand what he needs to do here to succeed. And he is confident in math and languages, so the education system plays to his strengths.

I tend to think, ultimately, that an educational system with lower expectations is not good for a certain kind of student. They get bored and look for other sources of stimulation...

Thank you, MusicChick. I was wondering what you'd think of this situation. So there's hope, then, after all?!

There is hope, always. The system seems inflexible, but is not. Try to work with the teachers on individual level, in the future, before things get into the official meeting route, but basically if majority supports your child to go higher, your child will, the meeting is only to formalize it. It seems to me that the reason to keep a kiddo in the lower level is in fact to boost the local language in order to have higher chances later. Don't despair. If child applies himself/herself during classes, it is always appreciated and it is obvious to those who teach him/her. It's more the lack of cooperation (or some kind of lack of appreciation, or verbal pushiness non Swiss style) on parents part that sometimes locks the system inflexibly it seems to me. Good luck. It's fab to see interested and envolved folks and kids who work hard.

Well, we kept up the battle, sent our letter to the schools and, two days after the Conference des Maitres, we received a reply...

B!!!!!



I am so glad that my daughter is being given this chance because from this she has hopefully learned that she can be rewarded for her perseverance and fortitude.

Now, my kiddo is going to have some work ahead of her for the next academic year.

From some of your comments in this thread (and the related thread, Contesting School Placement), I've realized there are many things about the school system here that I do not entirely understand. The cultural differences make it difficult for me to interact with the teachers at times and it's a bit frustrating for all of us. At the same time, I had to trust my intuition and the feelings of my daughter, and hopefully good things will follow.

Thanks to all for your support, advice and good wishes. English Forum is awesome.

I know quite a few schools where the teachers have another approach. If they can't agree with the parents, they give in and promote the children to the higher level. In nine of ten cases the children are relegated after the first semester.

Fantastic news. And, it is always good to keep your eyes open. This system is not out to get you, it's just the mode of communication, as you said, might differ a tad, in timing, manner, etc. I am happy for your kid.

The main question for me now remains: What is it appropriate to expect from my children in B, who have each only been learning French for the past 2 years?

For my son who started in 7eme annee in G and is now completing his first year in B, his grades are rather up and down. He says he'll be able to do better next year. I'm impressed that he can pass a year in physics at all, after having missed the previous year in physics completely (since they don't teach that subject in VSG) and given that he's learning it in French. Same thing with German. His school peers had 3 years of German studies before he arrived here. He's making great strides, and the tutor is impressed with his ability. But my hope for my children is that they will ultimately find themselves on a level playing field with the others.

They want to be in VSB, feel that B is the right fit, and they like their peers and the atmosphere there. Now I have to trust that they will eventually thrive there.