Has anyone had any experience of the Montessori or Steiner schools in Baar? Any comments would be appreciated. Thanks

Not with the ones in Baar, but I am familiar with the anthroposophy movement, on which the Steiner educational system is based. From what I recall, the Montessori and Steiner sytems are quite different, Montessori being child-led, Steiner being teacher-led. Teachers at Steiner schools in Switzerland are regularly licensed teachers who have undergone additional training in anthroposophic education. They are paid roughly half of what Swiss public school teachers earn, and accordingly highly dedicated to their profession. The anthroposophy movement encompasses medicine, architecture, the arts, as well as education, and its worldwide headquarters are the Goetheanum in Dornach, Solothurn. If you have a chance, and are at all interested in pursuing the Steiner option, I urge you to find out as much as you can about it in advance. It's certainly not for everyone, requires a major commitment on the part of parents, but many do find it ideal for their personal situation and educational values.

Hi,

3 generations of my fam. (including my good self before being rescued by the Jesuits ... talking about jumping from the frying pan into the fire ...) have been educated in (the same) Steiner school which is why I sent my kids to Montesorri kindergartens and would have sent them to a M. primary school if the lake wasn't between us. The graduates of Steiner schools are noted for their lack of competitive ability and there is a slight tendancy amongst the staff to let wooly thinking get in the way of proven scientific facts, those who have gone to them have difficulties in adjusting to the real world.

I have found the Montesorri kindergartens an excellent start for the kids, expensive but worth every penny. They now go to the local primary school which is OK (I live on the gold coast) but not nearly as beneficial.

I have some experience with the Barr (or is it Cham?) Montessori school so PM me if you want some info.

Regards

Hans

I am very interested in the Montessori method and the more I read about it, the more I like it. I've been thinking of sending both my kids to a Montessori school. The only point is that I know very few parents who actually sent their kids to Montessori schools past the pre-school/kindergarten years. All I hear is 'Montessori kindergarten are the best start you can give your kids but and after that, does it get bad??!! I wonder why so many people think Montessori is great for young children (i.e up to 5 years old) but don't actually continue with a Montessori education for the long haul. Would that be a money based decision or because they consider the Montessori method not good enough after that age? I'm just very curious as my son is 5 and I can't see the problem with him having a Montessori education apart from it being very expensive. Anyone with older kids who have actually followed the method beyond the age of 6 could say something about the experience?

(Steiner) ..You really want to be talking Warldorf ......... do not do this to your children, please !!!!

Polorise I didn't quite underdtand what you meant. Are you talking about Steiner or Montessori? And where did you get the last quote from? I'm confused now.

ok, Montessori is a programme, not a brand. Lots of scholls sy that they are Montessori accredited, which they are not, as this accreditation does not exist (to my knowledge)
Steiner is a litle more complicated, but again it is more of a philosophic attitude, read the entry for Wikipedia. I had the misfortune to attend a "Steiner" school in Devon for a few years, as my parents thought this would be good for me (progressive). No structure, the children practically choose the curriculum etc etc ... I was lucky, my parents listened, however, I know plenty that stayes & have seen the end result. Kids that remain in "Steiner" education always seem to have a hard time holding down jobs & are not suited for any of the classic professions.

have just noted tht my original Wiki link was not working : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waldorf_education

Now I get it. I know some people who had a Waldorf education and they do seem a bit detached from reality not in a loony way but in a uthopic way IYKWIM and the have a hard time relating to society in general. I don't find Montessori and Waldorf/Steiner to be related, I find them very different methods.

I';m always glad to see other Montessori enthusiasts-- I am a trained Montessori teacher (for the kindergarden years) and LOVE the philosophy and system, think it;s amazing for kids.

I think there's a few reasons why people stop after the K year. One is that if you're going to put your kids in preschool you're going to have to pay regardless, even if it's just regular daycare, but once you get into elem. you have the option of public school and I think a lot of people would rather save the money. Another reason is that I think good elementary schools are harder to find than good pre-K programs. I worked in a school in California that was AMAZING for 3-5 yr olds, unfortunately there was not much of a choice for a follow-up Montessori elementary school in the area so many kids then went on to other types of schools.

My husband went to Montessori through 5th grade and I'm convinced that's a big part of why he's such an analytical thinker and so intelligent, technical yet also creative. Montessori elementary education is a GREAT thing for children, if you're able to swing the costs and find a good school. I know I'm making it a major goal for our children.

As for the comments about Montessori accreditation, it is true that any school can call themselves "Montessori" but not really follow the spirit or philosophy that that's supposed to mean. There are associations that will stick more to the true Montessori basics (Association Montessori Internationale is the most well-known, the one started by Maria Montessori herself, and which sticks to the essentials the most). If you find schools that are themselves accredited by AMI, or have teachers who were trained through AMI, then you can have better faith that it's a good Montessori school.

Waldorf/Steiner is definitely something I would not recommend.... I know a carpenter who regularly has to make threshholds higher for Waldorf Newbies so the the fairies (or whatever?) cannot pass into their houses any more. Pretty much says it all. I also know that only a very small percentage of kids attending Waldorf schools in Germany actually manage to pass A-levels, as they have to spend the last 2 years in school learning what everybody else learned in the last 12 years...
Anyway, I generally like the Montessori idea and have seen many nice appoaches in the past. Unfortunately it seems that anybody can call themselves Montessori or use Montessori methods, so you really have to look at the individual places. I saw one place in Lausanne (PM for details) that I really did not like and would not recommend.

I am not sure where you got this information about Steiner students from? My boyfriend was Steiner educated and it is truly a beautiful and AMAZING philosophy. Steiner students actually succeed better at university and have less of a drop out rate than mainstream students as they are truly taught to think rather that rote learning which appears in so many mainstreams schools.

If you need anymore information about Steiner schools please let me know as I would be happy to help you. I am studying a Bachelor of Education through a mainstream university which, also has a relationship with Steiner school so I am completing both degrees in one.

We are Montessori educated in our household...

I would put Montessori at one end of a continuum and Steiner at the other, and most of everything else in between - they are definitely not similar, and there is no way you could have both at the same time...

As others have said, though, the quality of Montessori varies greatly, there is a massive shortage of well-trained Montessori teachers - and many schools may be called Montessori but have not many Montessori-trained staff (some schools none at all!) - also here there seems to be a mixture of Montessori-trained, traditionally-trained and non-trained people in schools...

I can answer easily why there are a lot of Montessori preschools and not so many primary - Montessori started first in the 3-6 age range about 100 years ago...the 'heart' of Montessori is in early-childhood. Schools have to meet a lot more government criteria to run Primary or High school levels than early childhood, and there are many more trainers for the preschool (including Kindergarten) than for the higher ages...another reason is that it is unusual for a Montessori primary school to take children who have not had Montessori preschool, because the curriculum for both levels is integrated, and the primary stuff relies upon the learning gained in the preschool...

If you can find a high quality Montessori programme at the 6-12 (Primary/Elementary level) then that can be really fantastic, but properly trained teachers who are double-qualified in both Montessori and traditional teaching methods are hard to find - and really you need a teacher who has both - because they have to understand the obligations of the local government systems and be able to show how their Montessori methods meet those goals - otherwise you get this 'hybrid' thing which can be a total mess for the children...

I have friends who did Montessori for age 3 - 12 and then went to Steiner high schools and seemed to do very well - so there is some 'synergy' for kids who have a Montessori education for their 'foundation' and then Steiner for their later stuff - it's not really possible for it to be the other way round because Montessori High school has not been fully established...there is not an official 'curriculum' for Montessori at the high school level although there are a number of schools world-wide who are working on this...

The biggest contrast between the two would be the *theology/religion/philosophy* aspect. Montessori does not subscribe to a particular religion, although Dr Montessori was a Roman Catholic and you can 'feel' the religion in some of her writings, and there are some individual schools who may have a religion and also use the Montessori method...and some of those religious values can come through...Steiner/Waldorf has it's own set of beliefs about the nature of the world, and these come through more strongly as you get more involved...

The other key difference would be the teaching of reading and writing - Montessori begins these in a very methodical way from age 3...Steiner from what I understand prefers to leave these things to after around age 7...

Hope that helps...

Oh, found this for anyone considering Montessori - at the bottom there are two downloads for parents on how to choose a good-quality Montessori programme for your child...

http://montessori.org.au/schools/choosing.htm

Beobachter has an interesting article about Steiner schools here. It quotes a study where former students were asked about their opinion. There's more but two important findings are that about 80% are satisfied with the Steiner education, and about a third of the students have a university level degree, which is more than the national average. However, their parents have above average education too, and some correlation was to be expected. The most popular criticism was that Steiner schools aren't performance-oriented enough (60%). 62% of the students think that the school helped them to develop flexible problem solving skills.

Swiss Steiner schools are also famous as vectors in measles epidemies of 2007 and 2009. The vaccination rate at their school in Vaud is estimated 30% (cantonal rate 93%, population immunity comes at 95%). Some links in

German:
http://www.blick.ch/news/schweiz/kra...-schule-112357
http://www.blick.ch/news/schweiz/weg...e-masern-89030

French:
http://www.24heures.ch/vaud/actu/fac...ent-2009-02-04
http://www.lematin.ch/actu/suisse/ec...rougeole-82690
http://www.letemps.ch/Page/Uuid/1adb...re_la_rougeole
http://www.lematin.ch/flash-info/sui...s-surveillance

Personally I know two Steiner students. One is weird, one has a nice personality, both got it from the parents.

I attended a (proper) Montessori school from age 3 until 6, unfortunately to attend after that was impossible (location). It was the best thing my parents could have done for me - it opened my mind to creative ways of thinking and processing and learning that the public school system where I was sent after tried (and failed) to quash.

Without a doubt, I highly recommend the Montessori method even if only for preschool.

I incorporate a lot of the Montessori materials in my playgroup and work mostly according to her method. I don't advertise as such as I know deep down my approach isn't purely her methods.

Montessori gives a wonderful insight into the development of the child and from my first reading of her work and observations I found it totally logical.

She also stated that she wished her method to grow and develop with the times. I can respect that.

I own a Montessori school in Bülach and we are not expensive, in comparison to International Schools. Montessori is definitely more child based and the child has a great freedom and with that freedom, great materials and guidance of the usage of those materials, makes one powerful combination.

I heard that the Steiner school in Baar is unfortunately closing. There are loads of Montessori options around Zug for kids aged 3-6, some where the govt cover the cost instead of going to a normal kindergarten.

Can you please explain what you mean my govt cover the cost...? I'm relocating to Basel in the next 1-2 months and am a bit worried about schooling costs! My son is 5 so would be kindergarten level.

Many thanks!
Nikki

Swiss Kindergarten is free. Some of the Montesori kindergarten's are funded by the local Kanton in Zug, so if you choose to send your kid there intead of the normal kindergarten, costs are paid by the Kanton.