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Old 26.01.2013, 01:27
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Divorce - this is how it works?

Hi;

This is my situation: I am still married (for the moment) to a woman that I married about 6 years ago. We got married in another country (the Caribbeans, we both were born there) and we came to live here because of better opportunities and the like.

Long story short, she cheated on me. She does not work, I make about 5K after taxes and we have a kid that turned 3 last november.

As I understand it, and please correct me if I am wrong:

- There is no fault divorce, so the fact she cheated on me plays no role, whatsoever;

- I have to pay for my child (which I am 100% ok with) but also for her, until the kid is about 10 years of age? I also read somewhere it has something to do with my son completing his first "career", or sometime between 2 and 5 years; (is the judge the one who decides that? If so, anyone knows what they base their decision on?)

- It does not matter that I got married somewhere else, or that I could get a divorce somewhere else;

- Even IF I remarry with someone else, and move to a different country (for whatever reason), I still have to pay to her;

That's about it, I think... I don't see why I have to pay to her, until she gets ideally remarried (which will not happen, and IF it does, it would be in years time, obviously) even if I marry someone else. If I remarry, I have to pay for her even if I have someone else to my charge... effectively linking me to be responsible for my ex, even if we don't live in the same country and I have a new family, and thus hindering my future for years.

Did I get something wrong?
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Old 26.01.2013, 01:45
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Re: Divorce - this is how it works?

Not necessarily as you are both foreign nationals of the same nationality. You also might be able to take up residence in your home country and apply for divorce there. But I'd assume your wife would argue for the divorce proceedings to be held here.

From http://www.cagi.ch/en/vie-pratique/v...rces-deces.php
Divorce and legal separation
Swiss courts in Switzerland's place of residence are competent to hear cases of divorce or separation. Swiss courts in the plaintiff's place of residence are competent if the plaintiff has lived in Switzerland at least one year, or is Swiss.

Divorce and separation are governed by Swiss law. It can be otherwise if the spouses are of the same foreign nationality, and are domiciled in Switzerland. In such cases it is the law of their common nationality that applies.

Examples: the divorce of a French-Swiss couple living in Lausanne will be subject to Swiss law, as will the divorce of a Spanish couple living in Zurich. If, however, at the time the divorce proceedings are started, one of the Spanish spouses has left Switzerland to settle in Spain, or even Germany, Spanish law will apply.

If the common foreign national does not allow divorce, or makes it subject to overly stringent conditions, Swiss law may apply if one of the spouses also has Swiss nationality, or if one of them has resided in Switzerland for at least two years.

The Hague Conventions are applicable to questions of alimony during and after the divorce proceedings (see Pension alimentaire - Recouvrement) (alimony-debt collection)
(Source: Guide social Romand (GSR) - Social Guide for French-speaking Switzerland)

Last edited by parisblue; 26.01.2013 at 01:52. Reason: Clarified
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Old 26.01.2013, 01:51
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Re: Divorce - this is how it works?

I was born in the Caribbeans, as did she, however I am a Canadian citizen, she has also become a Swiss citizen in the meantime.

So I guess Swiss laws will apply (and that my understanding of the proceedings up there is correct).
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Old 26.01.2013, 12:23
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Re: Divorce - this is how it works?

Correct, CH has a no fault divorce law

And you must support your child financially until the child has reached the age of majority or has finished learning, I think till max 25yrs old

BUT you must maintain a minimum liveable income for yourself, i.e.: the system does not expect you to give all your money to the child and for you to live in the poorhouse.

And the ex can claim money for you to support her too if she cannot work or is older than typical working age. But eg if she is <40 and you can only give her 500 chf a month then she will need work or social support to support herself.

I suggest you see the local marriage counsellor who can help you through the process and tell you what rights you, your ex and your child have to eg financial assistance from the government
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Old 26.01.2013, 12:46
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Re: Divorce - this is how it works?

Yes, divorces here are "no fault" - they have to be mutually agreeable.
If one is not agreeable, then there is a 2 year wait after the official seperation, which must be officially recorded.

At the end of the 2 years - or if the other is agreeable - the divorce will proceed. BUT you have to have reached an agreement about the finances.

A 6 year marriage is not long, and you must both still be quite young, so wife is able to work. She will have to work. If she is not qualified for any sort of work, you will have to contribute to her training. In the meantime, while she trains/studies, you will have to support her.

She is entitled to her share of your salary, as this is how she has lived. If this means you both are not able to maintain your previous life-style, then both your lifestyles must be downgraded to an equal level.

If that level is not enough to sustain both households (below the breadline), then one can apply for social help.

Your child is supported by you until he/she is qualified to earn own salary. Or finished with tertiary education.

If you remarry, then your new spouse assumes responsiblity WITH you for maintaining maintenance of your ex family (if new partner also earns a salary).

If your ex-wife remarries, or has a live-in partner, then your maintenance of HER falls away. But your child remains your responsibility.

Remember too ...... when your ex wife works, her salary is estimated at 100% for income purposes, even if she works 50% /75%..... it means she has to seek those extra hours - she cannot claim them from you.

Well, that is how I have learned it works here. SO many people seem to get divorced in Switzerland, it`s quite an education - living in a small village!
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Old 26.01.2013, 12:49
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Re: Divorce - this is how it works?

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SO many people seem to get divorced in Switzerland
More makeup, higher heels and less bodyhair would help that
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Old 26.01.2013, 13:00
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Re: Divorce - this is how it works?

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More makeup, higher heels and less bodyhair would help that
Yeah, you could be right!

I`m beginning to think the problem is the weather here?

One begins to wear only jeans. (Only Bundesrat ladies occassionaly wear skirts - for press photos?) And the winter weather is not condusive to elegant high heels - "winter" being about 7 months of the year.

So ...... jeans, boots, no one is looking at legs anymore .... so they don`t get shaved.

Make-up. Powdered white faces. Black ringed empty looking eyes. Is that make-up?

Oh for sunny lands, string bikinis, strappy sandals. Oh that`s Thailand, right?

Ja, as I said .... quite an education living in Swiss village. Every few months the neighbors change their marital status. He used to be married to her, and she`s now married to the ex of xyz .... who`s ex is now married to abc`s ex partner, who`s ex is living with popsie who used to be ..........
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Old 26.01.2013, 13:07
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Re: Divorce - this is how it works?

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Yeah, you could be right!

I`m beginning to think the problem is the weather here?

One begins to wear only jeans. (Only Bundesrat ladies occassionaly wear skirts - for press photos?) And the winter weather is not condusive to elegant high heels - "winter" being about 7 months of the year.

So ...... jeans, boots, no one is looking at legs anymore .... so they don`t get shaved.

Make-up. Powdered white faces. Black ringed empty looking eyes. Is that make-up?
Yeah.....coz the girls in Moscow look terrible...must be to do with the weather here
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Old 26.01.2013, 21:19
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Re: Divorce - this is how it works?

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Yes, divorces here are "no fault" - they have to be mutually agreeable.
If one is not agreeable, then there is a 2 year wait after the official seperation, which must be officially recorded.

At the end of the 2 years - or if the other is agreeable - the divorce will proceed. BUT you have to have reached an agreement about the finances.

A 6 year marriage is not long, and you must both still be quite young, so wife is able to work. She will have to work. If she is not qualified for any sort of work, you will have to contribute to her training. In the meantime, while she trains/studies, you will have to support her.

She is entitled to her share of your salary, as this is how she has lived. If this means you both are not able to maintain your previous life-style, then both your lifestyles must be downgraded to an equal level.

If that level is not enough to sustain both households (below the breadline), then one can apply for social help.

Your child is supported by you until he/she is qualified to earn own salary. Or finished with tertiary education.

If you remarry, then your new spouse assumes responsiblity WITH you for maintaining maintenance of your ex family (if new partner also earns a salary).

If your ex-wife remarries, or has a live-in partner, then your maintenance of HER falls away. But your child remains your responsibility.

Remember too ...... when your ex wife works, her salary is estimated at 100% for income purposes, even if she works 50% /75%..... it means she has to seek those extra hours - she cannot claim them from you.

Well, that is how I have learned it works here. SO many people seem to get divorced in Switzerland, it`s quite an education - living in a small village!
I get all of that, but I guess I am having a lot of problems with the injustice of it all. Because the kid is 3 years old, she cannot find work that easily, and she has been looking, but to no avail.

Also, I came here to make a life with her, something she promptly destroyed the first chance she got, but I still have to pay for her - even if I can (and I will) move to my citizenship country in the next few months because I know this will end in a bigger disaster than it already is. Best of all, I have to support her, even AFTER I am divorced, and EVEN IF I marry someone else, so long as my kid is studying?

Jeez. I wasn't aware marrying someone was a death sentence for life. And again, my biggest problem is "why the do I have to take care of someone I'm not even living in the same country as anymore, and even after rebuilding my life?"

I could get that if I were to stay here, but it wont be the case. All the works she is academically able to do are not to her liking either, but it's not as if the government will force her to work.

And I have no problem paying for my kid. At all. He has nothing to do with this and wherever I am, I will take care of him. But, I guess my moral code (if it could be named as such) has a big problem with supporting someone who screwed me over, in more than one way, and not having a damn to say about it. Or almost.
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Old 26.01.2013, 21:23
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Re: Divorce - this is how it works?

By taking care of your ex-wife, you're also taking care of your child. It's called being responsible.

I get the hurt and rejection part.

What I don't understand is why you don't want the best for your child.
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Old 26.01.2013, 21:24
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Re: Divorce - this is how it works?

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Yeah.....coz the girls in Moscow look terrible...must be to do with the weather here
I think she has a cute face, but that's all. No curves, no nothing.

I'd divorce her, though :P

Just not if she's swiss or living in Switzerland.
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Old 26.01.2013, 21:37
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Re: Divorce - this is how it works?

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By taking care of your ex-wife, you're also taking care of your child. It's called being responsible.
Taking care of my ex-wife entails having to hinder my future for the next 10 years or so, because even though I tried my best to help her she wasn't able to grasp the simplicity of it all, and she's mentally confused to a point where she won't be able to be "on her own" for quite some time. And I should know - I married her.

Being responsible is also thinking about the consequences of your actions, knowing the variables. But of course, that only applies to me, apparently.

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I get the hurt and rejection part.

What I don't understand is why you don't want the best for your child.
I do want the best for my child. Heck, if I could, I would take him with me, because I can at least say I have an education, a better chance of getting a high paying job wherever I decide to step foot in and because, like I said, she is in a point in her life where she has to make big, huge, enormous decisions for her life and she hasn't even started it. But that's not going to happen, and I am smart enough not to fight it, because I know it's a waste of time and money.

And, despite all the bad stuff, she's still a good mother and a good person. We just can't live together anymore.

And like I said, it's not as if she could not work - but the works she can do, academically, she don't like.

Can I force her to work? No.
Will the Stadt force her to work? No.
Can I do anything so I can take care of my child (really the only one I should, IMHO, take care of) and that's it? No.

So the best for my child? I am not exactly sure. But since I have little to no choice, I don't fight that part.

Still, how is someone supposed to start a life over when 20% or possibly more of your salary is being shipped to someone you are not even living with anymore? I'm going to have a good time explaining that to anyone I ever meet.
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Old 26.01.2013, 21:50
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Re: Divorce - this is how it works?

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I
I can (and I will) move to my citizenship country in the next few months because I know this will end in a bigger disaster than it already is. Best of all, I have to support her, even AFTER I am divorced, and EVEN IF I marry someone else, so long as my kid is studying?


I could get that if I were to stay here, but it wont be the case. All the works she is academically able to do are not to her liking either, but it's not as if the government will force her to work.

And I have no problem paying for my kid. At all. He has nothing to do with this and wherever I am, I will take care of him.
.
Yes, you have to support your child, potentially until aged 25.
From what I have read on previous posts re people who are not working - it seems to me as the officialdom just about does "force" people to work rather than use the social welfare system. That could lessen your financual involvement.

However, in the meantime, how do you propose to support your child financially, but not your wife? How will she maintain a house and provisions for the child if you are not providing the income for he to be
able to do so. Frankly, with a three year old. Can she work and earn enough to pay for accomodation for the child and therefore herself as part of that package and other expenses without your help? Or not?

from what you have written it seems as if you are agreeing for your wife to have custody of the child you both have. Yes? Have you also considering visting times with your child, or shared custody where , although you and your wife may not be remaining in a marriage, you can still both provide time, love, attention and mutual support for your child.

If you are really planning on leaving the country, have you considered the longterm consequences of this?

Of course there is going to be conflict - you are understandably feeling angry at the very least. But perhaps there are ways to work though this.
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Old 26.01.2013, 22:07
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Re: Divorce - this is how it works?

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However, in the meantime, how do you propose to support your child financially, but not your wife? How will she maintain a house and provisions for the child if you are not providing the income for he to be
able to do so. Frankly, with a three year old. Can she work and earn enough to pay for accomodation for the child and therefore herself as part of that package and other expenses without your help? Or not?
Obviously, by her taking care of, ummmm, herself, through work?

Don't get me wrong, I would like nothing more than to be able to take my child with me so she can work through whatever it is she has to work through with her life (and it's a lot). But like I said, that's not going to happen, and there is work she can do, but she does not like (such as cleaning work and the like).

Is that even possible? Asking to have custody of the child? I am under the impression, through general knowledge and common sense, that the mother is always the one to have custody, unless something radical happens, which would not be anything near this case.

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from what you have written it seems as if you are agreeing for your wife to have custody of the child you both have. Yes? Have you also considering visting times with your child, or shared custody where , although you and your wife may not be remaining in a marriage, you can still both provide time, love, attention and mutual support for your child.
Yes. I am unhappy in this situation but our kid is as happy as always, and this has been dragging of for more than a year. That part, we have covered, we both love our child.

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If you are really planning on leaving the country, have you considered the longterm consequences of this?
Extensively.

The long term consequences will be considerably less potent than if I stay here, believe me. I wont say why, because that's her private life, but I will be able to see my child as often as possible, and I do believe my child will be happier if both his parents are happy, although not living in the same house.

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Of course there is going to be conflict - you are understandably feeling angry at the very least. But perhaps there are ways to work though this.
Yes, her taking responsability for her actions and work so I'd have to pay, if not only to my child, at least less to her.

I know this is about money. I do realize it, and I hate it to have it to be like this, but I left a lot of people, a lot of opportunities, a lot of friends back where I came from to be with her, I learned a 4th language in order to be able to take care of us here, got a super good job all on my own, and she just shat all over it. And on top of it, she gets to keep money from me? I know some part of me is mad, angry, and bitter, but it would be a lot easier if we could share the burden. Right now I feel like I get to get ed over, and pay for it too, emotionally AND financially.

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Old 26.01.2013, 22:23
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Re: Divorce - this is how it works?

Your wife has a job: taking care of your child.

Stop playing the victim. Shit happens. Your child will be the true victim in this if you don't take responsibility and look at the situation objectively. Read up on shared custody, alimony and child-support in Switzerland. You'll find that neither party comes out a winner and the laws have tried to keep the child as the main priority. By educating yourself and taking responsibility now, you'll save yourself money and heartache in the long run.

Sometimes the decisions we make in life don't bring the outcome we've hoped for. Try looking at your wife not as a cheater and heartbreaker but as the mother and caretaker of your beloved child, because that is the relationship that matters from now on. The rest is just wasted energy.
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Old 26.01.2013, 23:32
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Re: Divorce - this is how it works?

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I have to support her, even AFTER I am divorced, and EVEN IF I marry someone else, so long as my kid is studying?
No, only until your child is 12, or your ex finds a job or remarries (or is living with someone), whichever comes first.

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Old 26.01.2013, 23:37
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Re: Divorce - this is how it works?

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Your wife has a job: taking care of your child.

Stop playing the victim. Shit happens. Your child will be the true victim in this if you don't take responsibility and look at the situation objectively. Read up on shared custody, alimony and child-support in Switzerland. You'll find that neither party comes out a winner and the laws have tried to keep the child as the main priority. By educating yourself and taking responsibility now, you'll save yourself money and heartache in the long run.

Sometimes the decisions we make in life don't bring the outcome we've hoped for. Try looking at your wife not as a cheater and heartbreaker but as the mother and caretaker of your beloved child, because that is the relationship that matters from now on. The rest is just wasted energy.
Shit happens ? Your partner commits the ultimate betrayal and your reward is you have to pay for their upkeep for the next 15 years. The shit that should happen is that the cheating partner should lose custody of the child as the root cause of the situation and then get out to work as a single unreliable person and contribute financially to the child's upbringing. And if they complain, well shit happens man.

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Old 26.01.2013, 23:39
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Re: Divorce - this is how it works?

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More makeup, higher heels and less bodyhair would help that
As far as I can tell* most of the under 60s have no body hair at all

* sauna visits....
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Old 27.01.2013, 00:01
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Re: Divorce - this is how it works?

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Your wife has a job: taking care of your child.

Stop playing the victim. Shit happens. Your child will be the true victim in this if you don't take responsibility and look at the situation objectively. Read up on shared custody, alimony and child-support in Switzerland. You'll find that neither party comes out a winner and the laws have tried to keep the child as the main priority. By educating yourself and taking responsibility now, you'll save yourself money and heartache in the long run.

Sometimes the decisions we make in life don't bring the outcome we've hoped for. Try looking at your wife not as a cheater and heartbreaker but as the mother and caretaker of your beloved child, because that is the relationship that matters from now on. The rest is just wasted energy.
Shit, give me that job, any day of any week of any year. Specially in those conditions.

I definitely know shit happens. Yet, how am I able to effectively avoid the "shit" from happening, yet she can't? And how is it that even though I am not the one who let the shit happen, I am the one paying for it?

Let me be clear: I do know that my story sounds as me playing the victim, and I will not go as far as to say I am, because this was a relationship and neither of us are inanimate objects. It takes two to tango - but in my point of view, she got what she wanted (sex with another person), and she gets to be paid for it, too. Last time I cheated on someone, first, I wasn't married to anyone, and second, I got to be called an inconsiderate asshole, and that's the best name that was brought up.

Yes, shit happens. Sure would be fun if it happened to both of us, though.

And I do look at her as the caretaker of my child. But in the situation at hand, it also looks like a very expensive nanny.

Also, Mikers hit the nail right in the head.
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Old 27.01.2013, 00:11
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Re: Divorce - this is how it works?

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Jeez. I wasn't aware marrying someone was a death sentence for life.
Seems the words "for better or for worse" really do apply in Switzerland.

There's conflicting info being given here... assuming no change in the ex's financial situation, will the OP be potentially responsible for child support for a maximum of 12 or 25 years? Do child support rules vary by canton?

I think the OP should seek professional advice both here and from his home country.

It's easy to tell the OP to suck it up and behave responsibly and think objectively but if you were in his shoes, would you be content to fork out for a cheating ex-husband for the next 25 years to look after your kid.
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