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  #181  
Old 30.08.2014, 22:52
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Re: EXIT would you consider being a member?

I totally understand the significance of the subject. And I'm in the yes camp, i would like the choice.

Not knowing much about EXIT, I read through their site.. And one part made me laugh!

"The end-of-life attendant will ensure that the ambience is appropriate for the occasion."

A few candles maybe? Soft music? Eating a steak?

Whatever, I'm being flippant but it beats walking off the train platform.
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  #182  
Old 31.08.2014, 11:25
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Re: EXIT would you consider being a member?

Sort of related....

http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/reports-...ated-/40577988
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  #183  
Old 11.09.2014, 20:55
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Re: EXIT would you consider being a member?

For those interested:

On SRF 1 today at 20:05 PM: Documentary "Das Ende war der Anfang" - it looks like it'll be about people who tried to complete suicide.
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  #184  
Old 06.10.2014, 21:11
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Re: EXIT would you consider being a member?

Found a link to this today. A young woman, dying of a brain tumor plans to die on her own terms on Nov 1, in Oregon.

It's an interesting article. I understand her reasoning.

http://www.people.com/article/Britta...assion-choices
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  #185  
Old 06.10.2014, 21:36
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Re: EXIT would you consider being a member?

Thank you for that. Yes, understand totally- and yet,

the 1st of November is so soon, and she seems so well still, and so able to enjoy more, and the timing seems wrong somehow. So difficult to gauge from a distance. If she was my daughter, or my partner- I would try to persuade here to stay longer until symptoms begind to develop, I think.
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  #186  
Old 06.10.2014, 23:03
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Re: EXIT would you consider being a member?

I think her symptoms have developed. She mentions not being able to hold the leash for her dogs, having seizures and being unable to speak afterward and pain. I think it's important to her to have control and determination. But again, the choice is hers, the doctor has written the script, she will decide.

I am still on the fence with this stuff, but having seen the impact of cancer metastasized to the brain, i see her point.
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  #187  
Old 06.10.2014, 23:31
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Re: EXIT would you consider being a member?

Yes, Odile, in the video, she seems well, and it doesn't look as if any symptoms have developed. From the article, though, I understand that she does already have many, and serious, symptoms.
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  #188  
Old 06.10.2014, 23:52
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Re: EXIT would you consider being a member?

I didn't watch the video but the article does say that she has some quite serious symptoms already and November would be the top end of the six months predicted by the doctors in April.( although that doesn't necessarily me am anything)
Looking at the photo in the article though it's so hard to imagine that she is so unwell.

It must be so difficult for her family and friends. They have already done so much in preparation so they are obviously not rushing into anything and I admire them for it.

I'm on the fence regarding the whole exit and don't see myself becoming a member any time soon but that may change in the future.
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  #189  
Old 15.04.2015, 00:44
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Re: EXIT would you consider being a member?

Can anyone tell me the difference between Exit and Dignitas. Are they both offering the same protections and assistance here in Switzerland?
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  #190  
Old 15.04.2015, 04:36
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Re: EXIT would you consider being a member?

Exit’s membership and help is available only to people domiciled in Switzerland. It is not open to anyone from outside Switzerland, not even, for example, to people who live just across the border. This is so that the legal situation is completely clear.

Also, anyone who applies to Exit for help in choosing to end their own life, must see the counsellor of Exit on more than one occasion, to explain their reasoning. Because of this counselling procedure, which can sometimes be quite long, Exit occasionally provides help to persons wanting to end their lives on overall reflection, i.e. for people who decide (even without having cancer or piercing pain, or similar) that on balance, they have had enough and are ready to leave this life behind. Particularly, some elderly people feel this way if they’ve had a good, full life, and then suffer from the loss of independence or self-determination, as they lose their sight or hearing or bladder-control.

If these counsellors can think of a possible solution to the person’s problem, which would not involve dying, they often refer people to other guidance centres. For example, I once heard of a young mother who had beaten her children, and decided that she was harming them and that it would probably be better for them if she were dead. When she applied to Exit for help, they told her about the “Eltern Notruf”, a 24-hour emergency helpline for desperate and overwhelmed parents, and through that service she found immediate comfort, and therapy which helped her to control her anger and face her real issues. Then, she no longer beat her children and learned to be a better mother, and as a result no longer felt the need to end her own life for their sakes.

When an Exit counsellor, having met and listened to the person several times, having perused the medical records he/she supplies, and perhaps after obtaining a medical assessment, deems that the person is serious and the case legitimate, the application is brought before Exit’s internal interdisciplinary ethics council, which seeks to check that the person is of sound mind, has understood the ramifications of the decision, is not being put under pressure by a third party to end his/her life, does not wish to end his/her own life in order deliberately to harm a third party, etc., etc.

Only then can arrangements be made for a date and venue, and the person really be given the lethal medication to end his/her own life. The Exit counsellors repeat, at every step, that the person is always completely free to say “no, I want to stop here,” be it because they decide they want to live a bit longer, because they feel unsure, or because they have changed their minds altogether.

Dignitas provides assistance to people in Switzerland, including to those from abroad. It does not, however, offer any assistance outside of Switzerland. This is so that it does not ever act in any territory where assisted suicide may be illegal. To some people living in such countries in which assisted suicide or even any suicide attempt is illegal, travelling to Switzerland to obtain help from Dignitas can be their only hope.

Some years ago, Dignitas had quite some bad publicity. They were said, then, to be too hasty in providing travellers from abroad the service and chemical, without having taken the trouble to fully check who the people were, and what the applicant’s motivation was, nor indeed, the motivation of those accompanying the person, including, for example, being sure of the accuracy of possible translation and interpretation from foreign languages. How much of that was true, or what was perhaps aimed at discrediting Dignitas? I do not know. I also do not know the current situation about all the steps they take to establish the legitimacy/validity of any application, but in any case their procedure, like that of Exit, necessarily also involves the decision of a registered doctor, since the deadly chemical is a medication for which a prescription is needed from a doctor in Switzerland.

There were also some problems about the facilities Dignitas used, as they had rented a flat in a regular residential area. As far as I know, Dignitas has changed this, and now has a discrete house tucked away in an industrial zone, by which they no longer have any resident neighbours who could be upset with the activities of Dignitas. Exit also provides services in its own building on occasion, but more often in the home of the dying person, since, after all, the person definitely does reside in Switzerland.

Both Exit and Dignitas also provide a range of services that do not lead to a person actively swallowing a lethal medication in order to die. Indeed, both organisations have many members who do not ever make use of the service of assisted dying.
• Both organisations work actively, politically, to campaign for the “right to die”. They negotiate, e.g. with religious leaders or with those who make the rules in old-age and nursing homes.
• In so doing, both also work towards trying to prevent reckless suicide attempts using unreliable or violent methods which, whether or not successful, can provide great heartache and trauma for many, including innocent bystanders.
• Both provide some degree of suicide prevention help (as described in the example of the young mother, above).
• Both provide their members with a “Patientenverfügung” (Living Will) in which a rational person can specify what they would like to be done with them, if ever they became unable to give information, e.g. if they have a stroke, or develop Alzheimer’s, or are injured beyond able to communicate. Such steps could be, e.g. to be given only pain-killers and water, but no longer to be given food, so that death will result. A Living Will can also include what is to done after death, such as clauses about donating organs (but not aspects of a Testament, i.e. issues of money and inheritance). At least Exit (and I imagine, but do not know for sure, also Dignitas) will actively step in to deal with doctors, nurses and family members, to protect their member’s right to have his/her Living Will respected.

Here is Exit, in English. http://www.exit.ch/en/

The Dignitas website was last updated about a week ago (7th April 2015), here also in English:
http://dignitas.ch/index.php?option=...mid=47&lang=en
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  #191  
Old 15.04.2015, 23:30
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Re: EXIT would you consider being a member?

Wow, your reply is so much more detailed that I expected. Thank you very much for taking the time to share your knowledge and insight with us here.
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  #192  
Old 20.04.2015, 03:24
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Re: EXIT would you consider being a member?

@Swissish
my pleasure! I'm glad if the details help you (and perhaps others) to gain a clearer picture.

As I began to investigate this, years ago, the aspect I found most unexpected was that Exit actually points people feeling urgently desperate to other professional services for real help and support, so that they don't, in fact, commit suicide while in an emotional crisis in which they haven't thought the matter through.
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  #193  
Old 22.04.2015, 17:45
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Re: EXIT would you consider being a member?

Article in today's 20min (German only)

Suicide assistance in nursing homes and hospitals in BS canton shall be allowed, says a motion.

Very heated discussion going on there - I'm all for the motion, I think it's sickening to make elderly or ill people leave the place they (sometimes involuntarily!) call their home just so they can die on their own terms and in peace, leaving the people who are able to move out in a very bad situation and those who are unable to move but wishing to die in an even worse one.

Some people there seem to think that legalizing assisted suicide in nursing homes will lead to people being led in the direction of (unwanted) assisted dying/suicide because they've become a "burden" and that the belief that this might possibly happen should be reason enough to not permit it. SMH. As long as the people assisting remain diligent about the way they do it, including careful evaluation of the person wishing to die (like e.g. EXIT does) I don't see a problem.

Last edited by glowjupiter; 22.04.2015 at 18:09.
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  #194  
Old 16.05.2015, 21:10
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Re: EXIT would you consider being a member?

From the US, a very carefully planned act. It's a tough read, but worth it.

http://www.nytimes.com/section/magaz...ne&WT.nav=page
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  #195  
Old 17.05.2015, 07:16
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Re: EXIT would you consider being a member?

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From the US, a very carefully planned act. It's a tough read, but worth it.

http://www.nytimes.com/section/magaz...ne&WT.nav=page
Thanks.

It was tough to read but in the same time, it is written in such a soft manner.
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  #196  
Old 11.09.2015, 09:28
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Re: EXIT would you consider being a member?

The English parliament is today discussing the proposed change in the laws to make assisted suicide legal. It would require the agreement of two doctors and for the patient to actually make the suicide, without any physical assistance. Patients with dementia or non terminal illnesses are ruled out. The protestant Church of England are against any changes,

http://www.bbc.com/news/health-34208624
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  #197  
Old 11.09.2015, 12:13
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Re: EXIT would you consider being a member?

And in California (US), the state legislature passed a right to die initiative inspired by a young woman who moved to Oregon to die (see post 194 above). The bill needs to pass the state senate, if I'm not mistaken and then gov. Jerry Brown has to sign it. Will be interesting as Brown was once a Jesuit Seminarian.

http://www.latimes.com/local/politic...909-story.html
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  #198  
Old 11.09.2015, 13:08
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Re: EXIT would you consider being a member?

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The English parliament is today discussing the proposed change in the laws to make assisted suicide legal. It would require the agreement of two doctors and for the patient to actually make the suicide, without any physical assistance. Patients with dementia or non terminal illnesses are ruled out. The protestant Church of England are against any changes,

http://www.bbc.com/news/health-34208624
.
the Anglican Church is very much divided on the issue. The current ARchbishop, Selby, is against it- but Lord Carey his predecessor, has made a repeated and passionate plea in favour. Anglicans are active on both sides of the debate.
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  #199  
Old 11.09.2015, 13:39
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Re: EXIT would you consider being a member?

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The English parliament is today discussing the proposed change in the laws to make assisted suicide legal. It would require the agreement of two doctors and for the patient to actually make the suicide, without any physical assistance. Patients with dementia or non terminal illnesses are ruled out. .....
.
It would also need the approval of a judge and the patient being determined as having a life expectancy of less than six months.

I think that having independent controls is the right thing to do. My biggest concern is people opting to end their lives because they feel that they are a burden to their family or others.

I think that cases should be considered even if the condition is not expected to be terminal within six months. Some terminal conditions may linger for years. Each case should be considered on the individual circumstances. Putting blanket deadlines could create the climate to abuse the system.

On a personal note, I dislike the term assisted suicide. For me it makes a close connection to people who take their lives when they may not be thinking rationally. The term dignified dying seems the most appropriate
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  #200  
Old 11.09.2015, 14:50
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Re: EXIT would you consider being a member?

I have cancer and even though Im very positive I joined Exit as soon as I had the diagnosis.
Seen too many People hanging on for months in agony; wouldnt want that for my Family and I think ist about free choice.
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